Do natural rights exist?

Do natural rights exist?

  • Yes

    Votes: 5 41.7%

  • No

    Votes: 7 58.3%
  • Total voters
    12
SmarterThanYou said:
ummm, hate to disagree with you there my friend, but you don't 'give' or 'grant' me my rights. I have them, period. In order to deny me those rights, you'll have to take them from me by force....and by force I mean kill me.
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You're arguing agency rather than structure? I would argue that it's both.
 
SmarterThanYou said:
ummm, hate to disagree with you there my friend, but you don't 'give' or 'grant' me my rights. I have them, period. In order to deny me those rights, you'll have to take them from me by force....and by force I mean kill me.
Click to expand...

yum, more blood...heavy 50 cal rifle...:clink:
 
there are no natural rights, all rights are created.

the right to life? nope. you have no right to live in and of itself. how many newborns die every year? what about abortion? let's assume you take the first breath and have life, what "naturally" gives you a right to continue living? nothing. you and your body fight to continue to live.

the right to liberty? again, not natural. created. what is liberty? it is a created concept and liberty means different things to different people....

the right to property? again, property is a created concept. it is not natural. you are not born with property...
 
SmarterThanYou said:
ummm, hate to disagree with you there my friend, but you don't 'give' or 'grant' me my rights. I have them, period. In order to deny me those rights, you'll have to take them from me by force....and by force I mean kill me.
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Idealistically, yes. But in reality, people agree to give them to each other, and sometimes they fight until a party not receiving them, finally gets the other party to agree to granting them, or dies trying to procure them, or lives, but fails in their procurement.

For instance, you may think you have the ultimate right to control your property, but, in fact, you do not, due to eminent domain and the kelo decision. You may DESIRE To have that right, and maybe we had it at one time, but right now our actual legal reality is at odds with what we perceive our rights to be, or what they might have been in the past. That right has been taken away.
 
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Yurt said:
there are no natural rights, all rights are created.

the right to life? nope. you have no right to live in and of itself. how many newborns die every year? what about abortion? let's assume you take the first breath and have life, what "naturally" gives you a right to continue living? nothing. you and your body fight to continue to live.

the right to liberty? again, not natural. created. what is liberty? it is a created concept and liberty means different things to different people....

the right to property? again, property is a created concept. it is not natural. you are not born with property...
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So what is natural? Was that asshole, David Hume, correct? Nothing exists because we can't trust our own perception? Everything is just an illusion, and we can just as easily walk through a solid object as not?




Fuck...
 
AssHatZombie said:
Idealistically, yes. But in reality, people agree to give them to each other, and sometimes they fight until a party not receiving them, finally gets the other party to agree to granting them, or dies trying to procure them, or lives, but fails in their procurement.

For instance, you may think you have the ultimate right to control your property, but, in fact, you do not, due to eminent domain and the kelo decision. You may DESIRE To have that right, and maybe we had it at one time, but right now our actual legal reality is at odds with what we perceive our rights to be, or what they might have been in the past. That right has been taken away.
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people would be looking at this wrongly then. These rights never go away, they are simply being denied or infringed. The right still exists, it's just that another entity is currently doing what they want to deny that right to you.
 
SmarterThanYou said:
people would be looking at this wrongly then. These rights never go away, they are simply being denied or infringed. The right still exists, it's just that another entity is currently doing what they want to deny that right to you.
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It's really just a matter of words. do you really HAVE it if it's being denied to you? Typically the definition of something being denied is not having it , so... just words, really.
 
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