Trump hits back at Michelle Obama after searing DNC speech

Then let's hold a "nuanced discussion" about this. First taxes are a necessity, but that doesn't mean all taxes are necessary or desirable. By the same token not all cuts are necessary or desirable. When the US has one of the highest marginal corporate tax rates in the world, it's probably time to lower them. Trump did that. The economy picked up--like it or not.

Government should not be the arbiter of economic goals either, at least for the most part. They shouldn't be the ones deciding what industries grow or fail. They shouldn't be setting a national energy policy for the most part either.

One area you failed to mention is regulation. Government regulation is often over regulation. The goal of virtually all, if not all regulation, should NEVER, EVER be "zero tolerance." That is to say we should not seek to eliminate ALL pollution, or make everything COMPLETELY 100% safe for example. But regulators do exactly that because that's how bureaucracies work.
A zero tolerance / there's always more to regulate mindset is expensive and a major drag on society. Right now, government regulations cost employers over $10,000 per employee per year to comply with. That cost is higher for small businesses than it is for large corporations so it hurts the little guy the most.

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As the graph shows, the cost of regulations in manufacturing a car has steadily increased even as the price to manufacture the vehicle itself has remained almost flat. Yes, some of that regulation is necessary. Other parts of it are not. For example, airbags in vehicles are not cost effective. They are a marginal safety device that isn't worth the cost of including them, and never have been. But the government mandates them and even continues to try to put more regulations in place to increase their use.

The exact regulations aren't the issue however, it's the concept that all regulations are not productive or valuable. Many cost a great deal and produce little or nothing in return. A great example from the Clinton era is an EPA regulation that reduced allowable arsenic in drinking water from 50 ppb to 10 ppb. That is using the current US population of about 340 million, that under the old standard everyone in the US would get a blue T-shirt marked "water" except for (at the maximum) 17 people who would randomly be given green T-shirts marked "arsenic." The new standard would reduce this to just 4 people wearing green T-shirts.

Now, there are plenty of studies that show if you have 100 to 1000 times the old standard of arsenic in your drinking water you will suffer negative consequences in 20 to 40 years from it. At the old standard there were no appreciable health effects. The new standard did nothing to make you healthier or safer. But it cost hundreds of millions for water companies across the US to comply with this new standard and people, particularly in the West using ground water saw their water bills triple or quadruple in many cases. There was an immediate and measurable economic consequence to it.
That's a bad regulation. It smacks of the "zero tolerance" mentality.

Yet, there's plenty of people who scream bloody murder every time someone proposes deregulating something. Yes, some things do need tight regulation, other things don't. What we don't need is simply more regulation for the sake of regulation, and that all-too-frequently is what the Progressive Left wants.

Regulations cost money and require taxes to allow regulators to ensure compliance. They are a net drain on the economy. They need to be tightly managed, and the government making them needs to be on a very short leash.

So, your idea of a nuanced discussion about taxes is to write four paragraphs about regulation. Thanks for that. You just proved my point. A totally partisan post. 'The progressive left' blah, blah, blah.
 
Obama was reelected by more than Trump has a snowballs chance of being reelected.
 
And yours is to retort with ad hominem?

There is not one word that could remotely be construed as an adhom. In response to a desire to have a nuanced discussion about taxation, you yammered on about the evils of regulation, and the progressive left. That is a fact. Own it. And your claim that I didn't mention regulation specifically is hollow. I posted a short summary about what should inform tax policy. One of the four things I mentioned was subjective needs, which of course regulation is an integral part of. Just because something has a cost, it does not mean that thing is bad. You just simply blew through the really broad framework I laid out and immediately went to the Chamber of Commerce talking points, almost word for word.
 
There is not one word that could remotely be construed as an adhom. In response to a desire to have a nuanced discussion about taxation, you yammered on about the evils of regulation, and the progressive left. That is a fact. Own it. And your claim that I didn't mention regulation specifically is hollow. I posted a short summary about what should inform tax policy. One of the four things I mentioned was subjective needs, which of course regulation is an integral part of. Just because something has a cost, it does not mean that thing is bad. You just simply blew through the really broad framework I laid out and immediately went to the Chamber of Commerce talking points, almost word for word.

This was your response:

So, your idea of a nuanced discussion about taxes is to write four paragraphs about regulation. Thanks for that. You just proved my point. A totally partisan post. 'The progressive left' blah, blah, blah.

You addressed me, not what I wrote. That makes it a textbook case of ad hominem

ad hominem
[ˌad ˈhämənəm]
ADJECTIVE
(of an argument or reaction) directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.

I made a single mention of the Progressive Left in my response--one time and mostly as part of the conclusion, not in the body of it.

I discussed taxation, regulation and how it is related since it is a receiver of taxes to pay for it, and pointed out you left this out of your discussion. After all, it is central to a discussion of taxation what those taxes are spent on. In your earlier post you mention only three items related to taxation and make the argument these are the fundamental reasons for it: Growth, inflation, and unemployment. You mention as a colliery to that what you call "safety net."
Well, first off, there's more to taxes than you claim. The most obvious is defense. Then you can add debt management and payment, education, pensions, government servicing, etc. Growth, inflation are not things you manage with taxes as a rule. Unemployment is only serviced as part of a welfare system as is health care-- part of what you called the "safety net."

Right now, today, the largest portion of federal spending is on welfare in the form of Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid. These represent about 60% of the federal budget and dominate all other spending.
Regulations are related to the entire budget, be it federal or state. These determine the rules and bureaucracy for how spending occurs. That makes them a vital part of the whole process and something that should be discussed when talking about taxes and spending by government as they are central to the process.

Then in the above you end with another ad hominem about how I use "Chamber of Commerce talking points." No, I don't, but that's irrelevant as is your ad hominem in which you used it.
 
This was your response:



You addressed me, not what I wrote. That makes it a textbook case of ad hominem



I made a single mention of the Progressive Left in my response--one time and mostly as part of the conclusion, not in the body of it.

I discussed taxation, regulation and how it is related since it is a receiver of taxes to pay for it, and pointed out you left this out of your discussion. After all, it is central to a discussion of taxation what those taxes are spent on. In your earlier post you mention only three items related to taxation and make the argument these are the fundamental reasons for it: Growth, inflation, and unemployment. You mention as a colliery to that what you call "safety net."
Well, first off, there's more to taxes than you claim. The most obvious is defense. Then you can add debt management and payment, education, pensions, government servicing, etc. Growth, inflation are not things you manage with taxes as a rule. Unemployment is only serviced as part of a welfare system as is health care-- part of what you called the "safety net."

Right now, today, the largest portion of federal spending is on welfare in the form of Social Security, Medicare and Medicaid. These represent about 60% of the federal budget and dominate all other spending.
Regulations are related to the entire budget, be it federal or state. These determine the rules and bureaucracy for how spending occurs. That makes them a vital part of the whole process and something that should be discussed when talking about taxes and spending by government as they are central to the process.

Then in the above you end with another ad hominem about how I use "Chamber of Commerce talking points." No, I don't, but that's irrelevant as is your ad hominem in which you used it.

So because you only used a hyperpartisan label once, it's okay? LOL. Okay, you go with that. Yes, I addressed you. That doesn't make it an adhom, unless you want to argue that your entire last post was nothing but an adhom because you talked about me. Seems you are rather thin skinned. I'm fine talking about regulation as part of a larger discussion, but for you it was a full left turn through the barricades and off the road. If you want to start a thread about regulations, you should go and do that. I'd be happy to participate.

Non discretionary funding is a large part of the budget. I have no idea why that has any relevance in this discussion. While some spending is mandated by law, that has nothing to do with tax policy, which is about revenue, not spending. And a significant portion of that non discretionary spending is paid for from a trust fund that is completely separate from the general fund. Tax policy should encourage growth, low unemployment, and low inflation. Your suggestion that raising taxes runs contrary to those goals is both false and completely oversimplified. Some taxation policies encourage growth. Unfortunately, it has been demonstrated over and over again that supply side tax policy DOES NOT WORK. The numbers don't lie. The laffer curve is as imaginary as the unicorn. If those policies worked, we would not have seen a massive shift in wealth to the upper quintile, and especially the upper 5% over the last 40 years. So your posit was just so much rhetoric. So, feel free to explain how tax breaks for the top 1% are helping the economy grow.
 
I don't give a flying f*** about having a compassionate or caring President in the White House. I want an effective one.

Trump is an ignorant, lying blowhard. He wouldn't make an effective county dog-catcher unless he could hire someone to do it for him.

How do you like this from his tweetstorm the other day?

"The ObamaBiden Administration was the most corrupt in history, including the fact that they got caught SPYING ON MY CAMPAIGN, the biggest political scandal in the history of our Country. It's called Treason and more."

So spying on Trump before he was elected is treason. Does that tell you anything about how this person thinks?

His busy helper Barr hasn't found anything to substantiate it. If he had, we'd have heard about it by now.
 
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