Greatest Leader for African-Americans?

[Mott the Hoople]

There can be no argument that MLK was this nations greatest African American leader. By adopting the methods of, arguably, the greatest man of the 20th century, Ghandi, he was able to show a repressed minority how to get to the promised land. What's more, he did so knowing that he would be killed for doing so.

The book is still out on Obama and, great man though he was, to call Lincoln a leader of African Americans is a bit of a stretch as he was more concerned about the well being of our republic and not so much the basic humanity of African Americans.

King was not only a great orator and visionary but a man of extraordinary courage. To call him a great African American leader is to do him a diservice. He was a great AMERICAN leader. No, I must be fair. He was one of the greatest of all American leaders.

With out resorting to violence he forced this nation to recognize the basic humanity of a repressed racial minority. He made this nation aware of their basic human dignity in a manner that the forces of tyranny could not stand up to.

But most importantly he reminded us that we had to live up to the creed that this nation was founded upon of;

"We hold these truths to be self evident. That in the eyes of his creator all men are created equal and are endowed with certain unalienable rights...."

 

[klaatu]

Lincoln issued one of the most important executive orders in the history of our Nation, although not complete in that it had intentions to destable the south, it brought about Lincolns next steps to ensure that that 13th Amendment (the one that ends slavery) was passed by the House of Reps.

Lerone Bennetts Forced to Glory paints Lincoln as a selfish mean spirited bigot who wanted to deport African Americans back to Afirca. This is the book that started the revisionist movement against Lincoln. Well, this is one mans research ... and a man with a questionable racist record of his own.

Obama himself reveres Lincoln.. and to honor him he kicked off his campaign in Springfield, Ill. This is the First African American President of the Harvard Law Review ... and Abraham Lincoln served as an inspiration. Why? Because he was a bigot and wanted to deport African Americans back to Africa? Hardly .. I think I'll side with Obama on this one ... Lincolns greatness and achievements stand in tact.

 

[Sammy Jankis]

Lincoln issued one of the most important executive orders in the history of our Nation, although not complete in that it had intentions to destable the south, it brought about Lincolns next steps to ensure that that 13th Amendment (the one that ends slavery) was passed by the House of Reps.

Lerone Bennetts Forced to Glory paints Lincoln as a selfish mean spirited bigot who wanted to deport African Americans back to Afirca. This is the book that started the revisionist movement against Lincoln. Well, this is one mans research ... and a man with a questionable racist record of his own.

Obama himself reveres Lincoln.. and to honor him he kicked off his campaign in Springfield, Ill. This is the First African American President of the Harvard Law Review ... and Abraham Lincoln served as an inspiration. Why? Because he was a bigot and wanted to deport African Americans back to Africa? Hardly .. I think I'll side with Obama on this one ... Lincolns greatness and achievements stand in tact.

Of course. There's no way Obama could have been decieved about lincoln.

 

[klaatu]

Of course. There's no way Obama could have been decieved about lincoln.

I believe I qualified his admiration for Lincoln by pointing out that he was the First African American to be appointed President of the Harvard Law Review , also he was constitutional law professor at the University of Chicago ....

I think the Mans opinion in these matters carry much more weight than those of a racist editor or posters of this forum.

 

[ironhead]

Iron, I think everyone in the south today is glad that we didn't secede. Your opinion on the civil war is pure ignorance.

Once again, an incredibly weak reading of my post. Yeah, they were never bitter about the civil war down South. Good fucking god, you really need to start reading.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Pretty lengthy post on how the founding fathers opposed federalism. One problem. It's wrong. Ever read the federalist papers?

LOL.... You are aware, Federalist 71 opposes a Bill of Rights, correct? The Federalist Papers are a series of documents intended to make a case for the Constitution, and are the basis for hashing out the idea of us becoming "united" as states of America. In that regard, we are a "federation" ...hence, the "Federalist" Papers. However, there was a great debate over the size, scope, and power of a centralized federal government, and the Bill of Rights was added to the Constitution in order to insure against a powerful "federal" government. I will stand corrected on one point, I said our Founding Fathers opposed "federalism" and that should read, most of our Founding Fathers opposed it. This is why we ended up with a Bill of Rights.

So we essentially have two definitions of "federalist" here, one meaning the actual forming of a central government, and one being the centralization of power in a federal government. On the former, it was agreed, on the later, it was opposed, and the Bill of Rights protected against the "federalization" of power. Apparently, you failed history too!

 

[Socrtease]

The issue of the Bill of Rights was brought up only after the entire constitution had been drafted. Anti-Federalists, represented on this matter by Charles Pinckney, felt that the Consitution as written did not protect individual liberties. Pinckney introduced a "bill of rights" in 1787 that included freedom of the press and a complete ban on quartering soldiers in private homes. It was rejected in committee and then came up again before the whole convention later in the year and was rejected.

Federalist believed that the constition did not need a bill of righs because the powers of the government were divided sufficiently to keep majorities from infringing up the rights of minorities.

The Bill of Rights was ultimately included because ratification by the states was in doubt and the anti-federalists opposed the Constitution without a bill of rights. There was a small group of people that opposed the Bill of Rights because they thought (and rightly so) that too many narrowminded people would say that any right not specifically included in the Bill of Rights was not a right and therefore the government could infringe on it. That is what led to the inclusion of the 9th Amendment.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Lincoln issued one of the most important executive orders in the history of our Nation, although not complete in that it had intentions to destable the south, it brought about Lincolns next steps to ensure that that 13th Amendment (the one that ends slavery) was passed by the House of Reps.

Lerone Bennetts Forced to Glory paints Lincoln as a selfish mean spirited bigot who wanted to deport African Americans back to Afirca. This is the book that started the revisionist movement against Lincoln. Well, this is one mans research ... and a man with a questionable racist record of his own.

Obama himself reveres Lincoln.. and to honor him he kicked off his campaign in Springfield, Ill. This is the First African American President of the Harvard Law Review ... and Abraham Lincoln served as an inspiration. Why? Because he was a bigot and wanted to deport African Americans back to Africa? Hardly .. I think I'll side with Obama on this one ... Lincolns greatness and achievements stand in tact.

There is more than a 'single book' discussing Lincoln's plans to export African-Americans out of this country, it is a matter of public record. He did indeed embark on this plan, and the US actually purchased land in Central America, to facilitate this plan. In 1857 he urged the Illinois legislature to appropriate money for colonization. Three months after signing the Emancipation Proclamation, he sent 450 blacks to an island off the coast of Haiti where 100 died within a year.

In retrospect, we can see that Lincoln paved the way for emancipation of slaves and an end to slavery in America, but he was anything but an advocate for the African-American. As a lawyer, he argued cases on behalf of slave owners, and pleaded with the courts to send people back into slavery. Even up until the Civil War, he was pushing a compromise to allow slavery to continue until 1911 in slave states. To believe Lincoln was the epitome of freedom for African-Americans, is equivalent to believing Washington was the epitome of honesty for not lying about that cherry tree!

 

[Socrtease]

There is more than a 'single book' discussing Lincoln's plans to export African-Americans out of this country, it is a matter of public record. He did indeed embark on this plan, and the US actually purchased land in Central America, to facilitate this plan. In 1857 he urged the Illinois legislature to appropriate money for colonization. Three months after signing the Emancipation Proclamation, he sent 450 blacks to an island off the coast of Haiti where 100 died within a year.

In retrospect, we can see that Lincoln paved the way for emancipation of slaves and an end to slavery in America, but he was anything but an advocate for the African-American. As a lawyer, he argued cases on behalf of slave owners, and pleaded with the courts to send people back into slavery. Even up until the Civil War, he was pushing a compromise to allow slavery to continue until 1911 in slave states. To believe Lincoln was the epitome of freedom for African-Americans, is equivalent to believing Washington was the epitome of honesty for not lying about that cherry tree!

Actually we purchased what is now Liberia in Africa to repatriate slaves to africa.

 

[ironhead]

The anti-federalists (like Patrick Henry) pushed for the Bill of Rights and were afraid that the new federal government would not obey its own constitution. They were right.

 

[Minister of Truth]

I agree with Ib1's crack about the South. To amplify my radicalism on the point, I voted for Malcolm Little.

 

[ib1yysguy]

Brother X appreciates your support.

 

[Damocles]

The issue of the Bill of Rights was brought up only after the entire constitution had been drafted. Anti-Federalists, represented on this matter by Charles Pinckney, felt that the Consitution as written did not protect individual liberties. Pinckney introduced a "bill of rights" in 1787 that included freedom of the press and a complete ban on quartering soldiers in private homes. It was rejected in committee and then came up again before the whole convention later in the year and was rejected.

Federalist believed that the constition did not need a bill of righs because the powers of the government were divided sufficiently to keep majorities from infringing up the rights of minorities.

The Bill of Rights was ultimately included because ratification by the states was in doubt and the anti-federalists opposed the Constitution without a bill of rights. There was a small group of people that opposed the Bill of Rights because they thought (and rightly so) that too many narrowminded people would say that any right not specifically included in the Bill of Rights was not a right and therefore the government could infringe on it. That is what led to the inclusion of the 9th Amendment.

Did you know that the Bill of Rights was only fully ratified in the 90s? One of the provisions sat unratified from its inception for two centuries...

 

[Damocles]

Anyway, I'd vote for Frederick Douglass if his name was there, what he accomplished in that time is nothing short of amazing.

As a side note I share a birth date with Martin Luther King, Jr.

 

[FUCK THE POLICE]

I share a birth date with Ralph Nader.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

Actually we purchased what is now Liberia in Africa to repatriate slaves to africa.

Actually, we purchased land in Liberia, Haiti, and Central America for 'repatriation' of slaves....

Ambrose Thompson, a wealthy shipping magnate, had gained control of several hundred thousand acres in the Chiriqui district of what is now Panama. He proposed to develop coal mines in this territory and to use colonized blacks as labor. Later, the blacks would work their own plantations of cotton, sugar, and tobacco. Lincoln appointed a special commission to investigate the feasibility of this plan.

Lincoln had even appointed a Commissioner of Emigration, Reverend James Mitchell, whose job it was to organize colonization. The day after the meeting with the black delegation the commissioner placed the following ad in newspapers: “Correspondence is desired with colored men favorable to Central American, Liberian or Haytien [sic] emigration, especially the first named.” He also issued a memorandum to black ministers, urging them to promote emigration.

These measures met with some small success, and were supported by many whites. When a group of 61 blacks passed through Cleveland on its way to Boston for passage to Haiti, the Cleveland Plain Dealer wrote, “We hope the remainder of our dusky brethren will follow their example.”

On September 12, 1862, five days before Lincoln issued the preliminary Emancipation Proclamation, the federal government signed a contract with Ambrose Thompson for colonization on the Thompson lands in Chiriqui. The contract included a signed statement from the President directing the Secretary of the Interior to execute the contract.

The very day before issuing the Proclamation, Lincoln signed a contract for the resettlement of 5,000 free blacks on an Island near Haiti. Tragically, the contractor turned out to be a cruel swindler, who rounded up several hundred ex-slaves and left them on an uninhabited island, where most of them died.

 

[Mott the Hoople]

LOL.... You are aware, Federalist 71 opposes a Bill of Rights, correct? The Federalist Papers are a series of documents intended to make a case for the Constitution, and are the basis for hashing out the idea of us becoming "united" as states of America. In that regard, we are a "federation" ...hence, the "Federalist" Papers. However, there was a great debate over the size, scope, and power of a centralized federal government, and the Bill of Rights was added to the Constitution in order to insure against a powerful "federal" government. I will stand corrected on one point, I said our Founding Fathers opposed "federalism" and that should read, most of our Founding Fathers opposed it. This is why we ended up with a Bill of Rights.

So we essentially have two definitions of "federalist" here, one meaning the actual forming of a central government, and one being the centralization of power in a federal government. On the former, it was agreed, on the later, it was opposed, and the Bill of Rights protected against the "federalization" of power. Apparently, you failed history too!

The Federalist papers made the argument for the organizing principle of governance for a Federal Republic with a strong central government. The arguments of Hamilton, Jay and Monroe supported a constitutional democracy, within the construct of a Federal Republic while it opposed the articles of confederation.

 

[Dixie - In Memoriam]

The Federalist papers made the argument for the organizing principle of governance for a Federal Republic with a strong central government. The arguments of Hamilton, Jay and Monroe supported a constitutional democracy, within the construct of a Federal Republic while it opposed the articles of confederation.

Correct, but the Constitution was ratified with the Bill of Rights, to insure the people protections against a strong centralized federal government, as argued by Thomas Jefferson, George Mason and Patrick Henry. As I said, there were two sides to the issue, and the compromise was the Bill of Rights, which explicitly gave rights to the States and people, if they were not specifically enumerated to the US government.

 

[Epicurus]

Iron, I think everyone in the south today is glad that we didn't secede. Your opinion on the civil war is pure ignorance.

LoL no they aren't wtf are you talking about.

Seriously there are probably about 20-30% that still want to secede, and many many more who wish the Confederacy had won.

 

[Damocles]

LoL no they aren't wtf are you talking about.

Seriously there are probably about 20-30% that still want to secede, and many many more who wish the Confederacy had won.

There are many who believe that it was never over and that it's just been a pause in the "Northern War of Aggression" and that soon the "South will Rise Again"...