The Economist: America's Nightmare, Bernie Sanders Nominee

cawacko

Well-known member
This week's cover shows a picture of Bernie and Trump along with the heading "America's Nightmare: Could It Come To This?" The magazine has always been against Trump but interesting how strongly they come out against Sanders. And for those who argue "the world's" opinion is important in how we vote "the world" does not seem to be backing Sanders.




America’s nightmare

Bernie Sanders, nominee

The senator from Vermont would present America with a terrible choice


Sometimes people wake from a bad dream only to discover that they are still asleep and that the nightmare goes on. This is the prospect facing America if, as seems increasingly likely, the Democrats nominate Bernie Sanders as the person to rouse America from President Donald Trump’s first term. Mr Sanders won the primary in New Hampshire, almost won in Iowa, trounced his rivals in Nevada and is polling well in South Carolina. Come Super Tuesday next week, in which 14 states including California and Texas allot delegates, he could amass a large enough lead to make himself almost impossible to catch.

Moderate Democrats worry that nominating Mr Sanders would cost them the election. This newspaper worries that forcing Americans to decide between him and Mr Trump would result in an appalling choice with no good outcome. It will surprise nobody that we disagree with a self-described democratic socialist over economics, but that is just the start. Because Mr Sanders is so convinced that he is morally right, he has a dangerous tendency to put ends before means. And, in a country where Mr Trump has whipped up politics into a frenzy of loathing, Mr Sanders’s election would feed the hatred.

On economics Mr Sanders is misunderstood. He is not a cuddly Scandinavian social democrat who would let companies do their thing and then tax them to build a better world. Instead, he believes American capitalism is rapacious and needs to be radically weakened. He puts Jeremy Corbyn to shame, proposing to take 20% of the equity of companies and hand it over to workers, to introduce a federal jobs-guarantee and to require companies to qualify for a federal charter obliging them to act for all stakeholders in ways that he could define. On trade, Mr Sanders is at least as hostile to open markets as Mr Trump is. He seeks to double government spending, without being able to show how he would pay for it. When unemployment is at a record low and nominal wages in the bottom quarter of the jobs market are growing by 4.6%, his call for a revolution in the economy is an epically poor prescription for what ails America.

In putting ends before means, Mr Sanders displays the intolerance of a Righteous Man. He embraces perfectly reasonable causes like reducing poverty, universal health care and decarbonising the economy, and then insists on the most unreasonable extremes in the policies he sets out to achieve them (see article). He would ban private health insurance (not even Britain, devoted to its National Health Service, goes that far). He wants to cut billionaires’ wealth in half over 15 years. A sensible ecologist would tax fracking for the greenhouse gases it produces. To Mr Sanders that smacks of a dirty compromise: he would ban it outright.

Sometimes even the ends are sacrificed to Mr Sanders’s need to be righteous. Making university cost-free for students is a self-defeating way to alleviate poverty, because most of the subsidy would go to people who are, or will be, relatively wealthy. Decriminalising border-crossing and breaking up Immigration and Customs Enforcement would abdicate one of the state’s first duties. Banning nuclear energy would stand in the way of his goal to create a zero-carbon economy.

So keenly does Mr Sanders fight his wicked rivals at home, that he often sympathises with their enemies abroad. He has shown a habit of indulging autocrats in Cuba and Nicaragua, so long as the regime in question claims to be pursuing socialism. He is sceptical about America wielding power overseas, partly from an honourable conviction that military adventures do more harm than good. But it also reflects his contempt for the power-wielders in the Washington establishment.

Last is the effect of a President Sanders on America’s political culture. The country’s political divisions helped make Mr Trump’s candidacy possible. They are now enabling Mr Sanders’s rise. The party’s leftist activists find his revolution thrilling. They have always believed that their man would triumph if only the neoliberal Democratic Party elite would stop keeping him down. His supporters seem to reserve almost as much hatred for his Democratic opponents as they do for Republicans.

This speaks to Mr Sanders’s political style. When faced with someone who disagrees with him, his instinct is to spot an establishment conspiracy, or to declare that his opponent is confused and will be put straight by one of his political sermons. When asked how he would persuade Congress to eliminate private health insurance (something which 60% of Americans oppose), Mr Sanders replies that he would hold rallies in the states of recalcitrant senators until they relented.

A presidency in which Mr Sanders travelled around the country holding rallies for a far-left programme that he could not get through Congress would widen America’s divisions. It would frustrate his supporters, because the president’s policies would be stymied by Congress or the courts. On the right, which has long been fed a diet of socialist bogeymen, the spectacle of an actual socialist in the White House would generate even greater fury. Mr Sanders would test the proposition that partisanship cannot get any more bitter.

The mainstream three-quarters of Democrats have begun to tell themselves that Mr Sanders would not be so bad. Some point out that he would not be able to do many of the things he promises. This excuse-making, with its implication that Mr Sanders should be taken seriously but not literally, sounds worryingly familiar. Mr Trump has shown that control of the regulatory state, plus presidential powers over trade and over foreign policy, give a president plenty of room for manoeuvre. His first term suggests that it is unwise to dismiss what a man seeking power says he wants to do with it.

Enter Sandersman

If Mr Sanders becomes the Democratic nominee, America will have to choose in November between a corrupt, divisive, right-wing populist, who scorns the rule of law and the constitution, and a sanctimonious, divisive, left-wing populist, who blames a cabal of billionaires and businesses for everything that is wrong with the world. All this when the country is as peaceful and prosperous as at any time in its history. It is hard to think of a worse choice. Wake up, America!


https://www.economist.com/leaders/2020/02/27/bernie-sanders-nominee
 
Oh man, that's so on the ball! All these fools on here, as I've tried in vain to explain, think Democratic Socialism and Social Democracy are the same thing, they are not. Even if Sanders was elected, doubtful but possible, he wouldn't be able to do very much unless he won the Senate as well which is exceedingly unlikely. The article is also right about Corbyn he wanted to give away 10% of the equity of a company Sanders wants to give away 20%
 
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This week's cover shows a picture of Bernie and Trump along with the heading "America's Nightmare: Could It Come To This?" The magazine has always been against Trump but interesting how strongly they come out against Sanders. And for those who argue "the world's" opinion is important in how we vote "the world" does not seem to be backing Sanders.




America’s nightmare

Bernie Sanders, nominee

The senator from Vermont would present America with a terrible choice


Sometimes people wake from a bad dream only to discover that they are still asleep and that the nightmare goes on. This is the prospect facing America if, as seems increasingly likely, the Democrats nominate Bernie Sanders as the person to rouse America from President Donald Trump’s first term. Mr Sanders won the primary in New Hampshire, almost won in Iowa, trounced his rivals in Nevada and is polling well in South Carolina. Come Super Tuesday next week, in which 14 states including California and Texas allot delegates, he could amass a large enough lead to make himself almost impossible to catch.

Moderate Democrats worry that nominating Mr Sanders would cost them the election. This newspaper worries that forcing Americans to decide between him and Mr Trump would result in an appalling choice with no good outcome. It will surprise nobody that we disagree with a self-described democratic socialist over economics, but that is just the start. Because Mr Sanders is so convinced that he is morally right, he has a dangerous tendency to put ends before means. And, in a country where Mr Trump has whipped up politics into a frenzy of loathing, Mr Sanders’s election would feed the hatred.

On economics Mr Sanders is misunderstood. He is not a cuddly Scandinavian social democrat who would let companies do their thing and then tax them to build a better world. Instead, he believes American capitalism is rapacious and needs to be radically weakened. He puts Jeremy Corbyn to shame, proposing to take 20% of the equity of companies and hand it over to workers, to introduce a federal jobs-guarantee and to require companies to qualify for a federal charter obliging them to act for all stakeholders in ways that he could define. On trade, Mr Sanders is at least as hostile to open markets as Mr Trump is. He seeks to double government spending, without being able to show how he would pay for it. When unemployment is at a record low and nominal wages in the bottom quarter of the jobs market are growing by 4.6%, his call for a revolution in the economy is an epically poor prescription for what ails America.

In putting ends before means, Mr Sanders displays the intolerance of a Righteous Man. He embraces perfectly reasonable causes like reducing poverty, universal health care and decarbonising the economy, and then insists on the most unreasonable extremes in the policies he sets out to achieve them (see article). He would ban private health insurance (not even Britain, devoted to its National Health Service, goes that far). He wants to cut billionaires’ wealth in half over 15 years. A sensible ecologist would tax fracking for the greenhouse gases it produces. To Mr Sanders that smacks of a dirty compromise: he would ban it outright.

Sometimes even the ends are sacrificed to Mr Sanders’s need to be righteous. Making university cost-free for students is a self-defeating way to alleviate poverty, because most of the subsidy would go to people who are, or will be, relatively wealthy. Decriminalising border-crossing and breaking up Immigration and Customs Enforcement would abdicate one of the state’s first duties. Banning nuclear energy would stand in the way of his goal to create a zero-carbon economy.

So keenly does Mr Sanders fight his wicked rivals at home, that he often sympathises with their enemies abroad. He has shown a habit of indulging autocrats in Cuba and Nicaragua, so long as the regime in question claims to be pursuing socialism. He is sceptical about America wielding power overseas, partly from an honourable conviction that military adventures do more harm than good. But it also reflects his contempt for the power-wielders in the Washington establishment.

Last is the effect of a President Sanders on America’s political culture. The country’s political divisions helped make Mr Trump’s candidacy possible. They are now enabling Mr Sanders’s rise. The party’s leftist activists find his revolution thrilling. They have always believed that their man would triumph if only the neoliberal Democratic Party elite would stop keeping him down. His supporters seem to reserve almost as much hatred for his Democratic opponents as they do for Republicans.

This speaks to Mr Sanders’s political style. When faced with someone who disagrees with him, his instinct is to spot an establishment conspiracy, or to declare that his opponent is confused and will be put straight by one of his political sermons. When asked how he would persuade Congress to eliminate private health insurance (something which 60% of Americans oppose), Mr Sanders replies that he would hold rallies in the states of recalcitrant senators until they relented.

A presidency in which Mr Sanders travelled around the country holding rallies for a far-left programme that he could not get through Congress would widen America’s divisions. It would frustrate his supporters, because the president’s policies would be stymied by Congress or the courts. On the right, which has long been fed a diet of socialist bogeymen, the spectacle of an actual socialist in the White House would generate even greater fury. Mr Sanders would test the proposition that partisanship cannot get any more bitter.

The mainstream three-quarters of Democrats have begun to tell themselves that Mr Sanders would not be so bad. Some point out that he would not be able to do many of the things he promises. This excuse-making, with its implication that Mr Sanders should be taken seriously but not literally, sounds worryingly familiar. Mr Trump has shown that control of the regulatory state, plus presidential powers over trade and over foreign policy, give a president plenty of room for manoeuvre. His first term suggests that it is unwise to dismiss what a man seeking power says he wants to do with it.

Enter Sandersman

If Mr Sanders becomes the Democratic nominee, America will have to choose in November between a corrupt, divisive, right-wing populist, who scorns the rule of law and the constitution, and a sanctimonious, divisive, left-wing populist, who blames a cabal of billionaires and businesses for everything that is wrong with the world. All this when the country is as peaceful and prosperous as at any time in its history. It is hard to think of a worse choice. Wake up, America!


https://www.economist.com/leaders/2020/02/27/bernie-sanders-nominee

The plutocrats don't like Bernie for obvious reasons, but Bernie will be a win for the working class.
 
The OP writer wants rid of Trump even as, in his own words “the country is as peaceful and prosperous as it has ever been” lol.

And Bernie wants to burn it all to the ground.
 
The plutocrats don't like Bernie for obvious reasons, but Bernie will be a win for the working class.

Bernie will be a curse on the working class. He will slowly over time turn them from semi free people into total slaves.

1... Bernie will most likely get screwed out of the nomination

2...Even if he did get the nomination he would most likely be crushed by Trump

3... In the unlikely event that over half the country were to suddenly become braindead and he were to actually win the election............ It will not stand. All bets would be off. Boogaloo time.

4... Zero shot of him ever taking office.
 
The plutocrats don't like Bernie for obvious reasons, but Bernie will be a win for the working class.

As the starving Venezuelan working class, Trumper.

Why do you post such garbage? You know better.
 
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If Mr Sanders becomes the Democratic nominee, America will have to choose in November between a corrupt, divisive, right-wing populist, who scorns the rule of law and the constitution,
OMG ! a populist! Katie bar the doors :rolleyes:

such claptrap "scorns the rule of law" - the travel ban and the border money from DoD are both been found Constitutional..so has REMAIN (in Mexico) to my knowledge..

More butt hurt establishment press :ouch:
 
Were gonna rock down to....electric boogaloo....and then we'll take it higher! Yeah yeah,...I know I changed the words...LOL
 
The OP writer wants rid of Trump even as, in his own words “the country is as peaceful and prosperous as it has ever been” lol.

And Bernie wants to burn it all to the ground.

I used to read The Economist religiously but have dialed way back. Generally speaking they have always been pretty consistent in their classical liberal position of free trade and free people. Thus Trump's nationalism, views on immigration and trade have never appealed to them. So here I give them credit for maintaining their consistency in their critique's of Sanders.
 
“This newspaper worries that forcing Americans to decide between him and Mr Trump would result in an appalling choice with no good outcome.”

This is garbage.

The choice would be between a bloody Socialist, a death cult, and a successful president who supports freedom and Capitalism that have made America the freest and most economically successful nation on earth.
 
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“Free trade and free people” define Conservatism.

I read the Economist for years...pristine writing and a balanced view.

No more, they are biased to the left...the far left.
 
“Free trade and free people” define Conservatism.

I read the Economist for years...pristine writing and a balanced view.

No more, they are biased to the left...the far left.

They are biased to the far left yet just wrote this article about Sanders?

Free trade and free people does define conservatism. That's not Trump's M.O. however.
 
They are biased to the far left yet just wrote this article about Sanders?

Free trade and free people does define conservatism. That's not Trump's M.O. however.
They are simply stating the truth, it’s unavoidable at times, even for the Economist.

Free trade and free people define President Trump.

There are no freer people on earth than the American people.
 
They are biased to the far left yet just wrote this article about Sanders?

Free trade and free people does define conservatism. That's not Trump's M.O. however.
horse crap. you can't have free trade without fair trade. It leads to the US/China relationship pre-Trump
with horrid balance of payments and jobs theft.

Tariffs as imposed by Trump are not protectionism -they are to force Chinese open markets
and ending IP theft etc.. They are a temporary nuisance -not a policy
 
horse crap. you can't have free trade without fair trade. It leads to the US/China relationship pre-Trump
with horrid balance of payments and jobs theft.

Tariffs as imposed by Trump are not protectionism -they are to force Chinese open markets
and ending IP theft etc.. They are a temporary nuisance -not a policy

No disrespect man, and I'm not telling you what to believe or support, but there was nothing about the trade war, tariffs and farm subsidies that was free trade. You can claim it was needed policy and that is your right. But it's not free trade. And there were many conservatives/libertarians who have voiced that opinion throughout. There's a reason there was this certain overlap of support between a segment of Bernie & Trump supporters and it was over trade. Both are against traditional free trade and trade agreements.

And that's why The Economist, a classical liberal magazine, has spoken out against Trump and Sanders on this.
 
They are simply stating the truth, it’s unavoidable at times, even for the Economist.

Free trade and free people define President Trump.

There are no freer people on earth than the American people.

Support what you want, vote for whom you like. But don't piss on me and tell me its raining. Our current trade and immigration policies are nowhere near the classic definition of free trade and free people.
 
Support what you want, vote for whom you like. But don't piss on me and tell me its raining. Our current trade and immigration policies are nowhere near the classic definition of free trade and free people.

Firstly, I don’t need your permission to support or vote for whomever I like.

Secondly, our current immigration policies are in response to the Democrats’ open borders and sanctuary cites policies and the goal of temporary tariffs is to force “free trade’ on countries like China.
 
Firstly, I don’t need your permission to support or vote for whomever I like.

Secondly, our current immigration policies are in response to the Democrats’ open borders and sanctuary cites policies and the goal of temporary tariffs is to force “free trade’ on countries like China.

That's right, you don't need my permission to do anything. But don't lie either. Limiting legal immigration and reducing visas like we're dong is not a response to open borders and sanctuary cities. It's a choice we've made and the repercussions are, just like the trade war, retarding economic growth.
 
That's right, you don't need my permission to do anything. But don't lie either. Limiting legal immigration and reducing visas like we're dong is not a response to open borders and sanctuary cities. It's a choice we've made and the repercussions are, just like the trade war, retarding economic growth.
I haven’t lied, you have.though.

The economy is booming and I posted about illegal immigration and sanctuary cities.

Stay ion topic.
 
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