Where is Trump's Beautiful Healthcare Plan? Here's Warren's...

[Joe Capitalist]

I'm not TTQ64. I'm LV426.

My mistake. Please accept my apologies.

 

[LV426]

My mistake. Please accept my apologies.

No worries.

 

[Joe Capitalist]

STFU no one believes your wealthy.

Really? How would you know, Einstein? Come on. You made a statement. Now back it up.
BTW, why does it bother you to know that I'm wealthy? What difference does it make to you?

 

[cawacko]

The wealthy never pay taxes? I do. I've been paying taxes for decades. A lot of taxes. A helluva lot more than you do. And my wealthy friends pay a helluva lot of taxes as well.

So, you see, The wealthy do pay taxes.

If you believe they don't, then there is nothing I could tell you.

It's an interesting mindset some hold. Like where does the billions upon billions of dollars the government spends come from if the rich don't pay taxes?

 

[LV426]

It's an interesting mindset some hold. Like where does the billions upon billions of dollars the government spends come from if the rich don't pay taxes?

The effective rate for the wealthy is lower than that of the middle class.

So for the rich who do pay taxes, they pay an effective rate lower than most Americans.

 

[Joe Capitalist]

The effective rate for the wealthy is lower than that of the middle class.

So for the rich who do pay taxes, they pay an effective rate lower than most Americans.

And why is that? Because they can take more advantage of the tax loopholes? If that's the case, I'm all for closing loopholes, not taxing them more. I don't believe that the government is a better custodian of their money than they are. So many people think higher taxes will solve everything but what they don't realize is the government is extremely inefficient and wasteful. And many billionaires spend millions on charities and start charitable foundations. The left never mentions that.

 

[Joe Capitalist]

It's an interesting mindset some hold. Like where does the billions upon billions of dollars the government spends come from if the rich don't pay taxes?

I loathe the idea of taxing success. Billionaires are wealthy because they worked hard, educated themselves and took enormous risks. Their employees didn't take the risks. The entrepreneurs did. With high risk comes high reward. The billionaires earned every penny because they followed the rules of Capitalism and made it work. And now, people condemn them for being successful and working hard? I hate the mindset "You have more money than you need so the only fair thing is to give me some". That's not the way Capitalism is supposed to work. Anybody in America can become wealthy if they do these three things:

Work hard
Educate yourself
Obey the law

It's that simple.

 

[LV426]

And why is that? Because they can take more advantage of the tax loopholes? If that's the case, I'm all for closing loopholes, not taxing them more

Why can't we do both?

I don't believe that the government is a better custodian of their money than they are.

We can't tax billionaires because then they won't be able to buy the things they need like NFL franchises, islands, and tax deductible think tanks that are founded exclusively to legitimize fringe beliefs about how billionaires shouldn't pay taxes.

So many people think higher taxes will solve everything but what they don't realize is the government is extremely inefficient and wasteful.

I always laugh at these assertions, as if giving the CEO of McDonald's a $30M golden parachute for quitting because he fucked a subordinate, isn't wasteful spending.

And many billionaires spend millions on charities and start charitable foundations. The left never mentions that.

If you added up the totality of all charitable giving in the US, including things like the NYC Ballet, museums, and other things rich people like to put their names on, which also declined last year by $54B because of the tax cut, you would barely reach Medicaid's entire budget.

As if begging the mega-wealthy for help is dignified and democratic; or taking to the internet to beg for charity on GoFundMe.

How many billionaires pledged money to help rebuild Notre Dame, and how many actually gave any money to that rebuilding?

 

[LV426]

Billionaires are wealthy because they worked hard, educated themselves and took enormous risks.

So, Bill Gates retired in 2014, and since he's been retired, his wealth has increased from $76B to $107B, a 39% increase.

How did a retired person manage to work hard and grow his wealth by 40%? Both things can't be true.

 

[LV426]

The billionaires earned every penny because they followed the rules of Capitalism and made it work.

Did they follow the rules, or write them?

You would seem to indicate that they wrote them since they wrote themselves some generous loopholes.

And now, people condemn them for being successful and working hard?

Bill Gates retired in 2014 and has since increased his wealth by $30B.

For doing nothing.

Yeah, don't tell me the wealthy work hard.

I hate the mindset "You have more money than you need so the only fair thing is to give me some". That's not the way Capitalism is supposed to work. Anybody in America can become wealthy if they do these three things:

Work hard
Educate yourself
Obey the law

So you don't believe that there are inherent flaws in our system that lead to the United States being the least economically mobile first world nation?

It's a fantasy that if you follow those arbitrary "rules" that you will be wealthy. Take Trump, for example...

Trump didn't work hard.
Trump doesn't educate himself (his daddy paid for his college).
Trump doesn't obey the law.

 

[LV426]

I hate the mindset "You have more money than you need so the only fair thing is to give me some". That's not the way Capitalism is supposed to work.

So capitalism is supposed to work by taking as much profits for yourself and sharing as little as you can with your workers to achieve...what? Wealth? To what end? Make the world a better place?

*looks around*

Sure doesn't look like the world's a better place, does it?

 

[LV426]

And many billionaires spend millions on charities and start charitable foundations

The last tax cut, the one we all hate that cut taxes on the rich, resulted in a drop of $54B in charitable giving last year.

Americans slashed their charitable deductions by $54 billion after Republican tax-code overhaul
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/a...-billion-after-trumps-tax-overhaul-2019-07-09

So we cut taxes, mostly for the rich, and charitable giving dropped.

I believe this is also the first time since the Great Recession that charitable giving declined y-o-y.

Charity is never the answer. Pinning all your hopes on billionaires to fix the problems they created is very Gilded Age-y.

 

[Into the Night]

The wealthy might pay a lot in gross revenue, but their effective rate is lower than the middle class.

No, it's higher.

Many wealthy people don't have a tax liability at all because of the loopholes and offshore accounts where they stash their gains.

What loopholes?
Money made overseas is not taxable by the U.S. government. It is taxed instead at the rate of the government the money was made under.

Taxing their wealth at 2-3% isn't even something they'll notice; if you taxed their wealth at 50%, they wouldn't even notice.

Money isn't wealth. Money is a transaction medium. Taxes in the United States is on money as it moves around.

They have more money than they will ever spend, and they don't "invest".

They do invest. They buy employees. They buy products as raw material for their own businesses. They invest in their businesses, just as I invest in mine. I pay taxes on that business. I pay personal taxes. I pay taxes for each employee I hire. I pay taxes on every bit of raw material I buy. I pay taxes on equipment I buy. I pay taxes on the fuel I use. I pay taxes on the communications systems I use. I pay taxes on my airplanes. If I had a yacht, I would pay taxes on it too (I prefer aviation).

I do not pay taxes on business I conduct in Australia. That money is taxed by Australia. The U.S. has no claim to it.

You've been listening to the liberal chants too long.

 

[Into the Night]

What I said was that many don't pay taxes because of no liability, and those that do pay taxes pay a lower effective rate than the middle class.

No. They pay more taxes because they are conducting more activity. More money is moving around due to their businesses.

 

[Into the Night]

I loathe the idea of taxing success. Billionaires are wealthy because they worked hard, educated themselves and took enormous risks. Their employees didn't take the risks. The entrepreneurs did. With high risk comes high reward. The billionaires earned every penny because they followed the rules of Capitalism and made it work. And now, people condemn them for being successful and working hard? I hate the mindset "You have more money than you need so the only fair thing is to give me some". That's not the way Capitalism is supposed to work. Anybody in America can become wealthy if they do these three things:

Work hard
Educate yourself
Obey the law

It's that simple.

Bingo.

 

[LV426]

And it's not like many billionaires even worked hard for the wealth they inherited.

Unless you think "not drowning in a bowl of soup before the Trust Fund kicks in" is hard work?

 

[LV426]

So we cut taxes for the rich, then charitable giving declined by $54B, so the answer to raising taxes on the wealthy is to...cut them further so charitable giving declines more?

That doesn't make a lot of sense.

 

[Into the Night]

So, Bill Gates retired in 2014,

Only from Microsoft. He is not retired from everything.

and since he's been retired,

Bill is not retired.

his wealth has increased from $76B to $107B, a 39% increase.

So?

How did a retired person manage to work hard and grow his wealth by 40%?

Because the company he built, which he still funds, grew by that much.

Both things can't be true.

Yes they can!

 

[Into the Night]

Did they follow the rules, or write them?

A bit of both, just like you.

You would seem to indicate that they wrote them since they wrote themselves some generous loopholes.

What loopholes?

Bill Gates retired in 2014 and has since increased his wealth by $30B.

Bill is not retired, and his wealth increased largely because of his money he still has at Microsoft.

For doing nothing.

No, he built Microsoft. He is entitled to benefit from it!

Yeah, don't tell me the wealthy work hard.

They do.

So you don't believe that there are inherent flaws in our system that lead to the United States being the least economically mobile first world nation?

The United States is the largest economy in the world.

It's a fantasy that if you follow those arbitrary "rules" that you will be wealthy. Take Trump, for example...

What about him?

Trump didn't work hard.

He does. He not only is very successful at real estate development, he also managed to become President of the United States. He has been working very hard in that job too, and is also very successful.

Trump doesn't educate himself (his daddy paid for his college).

Education is much more than college!

Trump doesn't obey the law.

Yes he does.

 

[LV426]

Wasteful Spending:

Here's what ousted McDonald's CEO Easterbrook gets
https://www.chicagobusiness.com/restaurants/heres-what-ousted-mcdonalds-ceo-easterbrook-gets

He fucked a subordinate, then quit, then was given $30M.

Now that's wasteful spending.