Question for JPP Climate Enthusiasts

[Bigdog]

India has the largest cattle inventory in the world in 2018 followed by Brazil & China. Roughly 63% of the world's cattle are in India, Brazil & China. (The cattle inventory in India includes water buffalo).

More than 90% of the world's cattle are NOT in the United States. The United States has the 4th largest cattle inventory in the world in 2018.

Thanks!

If they can't blame Whitey, the Left just doesn't care about it.

This is all about the Leftist's hatred for the White race.

 

[dukkha]

Thank-you. Now I wonder if the inconsistent left can grasp this bit of logic because I don't see
them traveling to India to raise hell over how THEY are killing the planet.


India has the largest cattle inventory in the world in 2018 followed by Brazil & China. Roughly 63% of the world's cattle are in India, Brazil & China. (The cattle inventory in India includes water buffalo).

More than 90% of the world's cattle are NOT in the United States. The United States has the 4th largest cattle inventory in the world in 2018.[/I]
https://beef2live.com/story-world-cattle-inventory-ranking-countries-0-106905

Indians will not kill cattle because they might be reincarnated dead relatives. Therefore they roam around farting up the atmosphere.

However!!!!!! We here in America eat them thereby having LESS cow farts in the atmosphere!

Therefore, these idiots I'm seeing on the news are clueless. If they want LESS cows farting out there, then please KEEP making
burgers out of them!!!

look at India and China! and WE were supposed to just accept these with the Paris accord?

 

[Stretch]

Thanks!

If they can't blame Whitey, the Left just doesn't care about it.

This is all about the Leftist's hatred for the White race.

It's about having too much time on their hands, making up new ways to control people's personal lives
and the choices we make for food, beverages, sports, entertainment...in general our pursuit of happiness.
Socialism must control the masses.

 

[Into the Night]

With all do respect, ITN, ... are there any terms that can be used instead of the phrases "greenhouse gases" and "global climate"?

Sure. If you want to talk about the Church of Global Warming, you can. Religions, oddly enough, do not require a definition of what they worship.

Since no gas or vapor has the capability to warm the Earth, there is really no need to talk about 'greenhouse' gas. Nothing wrong with referring to CO2 or carbon dioxide though. It just doesn't have any capability to warm the Earth.

 

[Into the Night]

Although methane is a far more powerful greenhouse gas than CO2, around 20 times, it is also has a much shorter retention time in the atmosphere of around 10 years.

Methane has NO capability to warm the Earth. No gas or vapor does.

* You can't slow or trap heat.
* You can't trap light.
* You can't warm a warmer surface using a colder gas.
* You can't reduce the radiance of Earth and increase its temperature at the same time.

 

[Into the Night]

Methane retention can be rather uncomfortable.

Let it out and open the window!

 

[Into the Night]

He's wrong but is far too stubborn to admit it.

You just denied science.

Water vapour absorbs and emits radiant energy within the thermal infrared range and this is the greenhouse effect.

No. It is just part of what is radiating into space.

It traps the heat

* It is not possible to trap or slow heat.
* It is not possible to trap thermal energy. There is always heat.
* It is not possible to trap light.

and slows the rate that it would otherwise escape back to space.

* It is not possible to trap light.

Indeed anybody that has studied chemistry at university knows about infra-red spectroscopy.

Irrelevance fallacy. Absorption of infrared light from the Earth's surface does not warm the Earth. The surface is COOLED by that process. It is simply transferring some of it's thermal energy to the atmosphere, just like does with conduction.

Indeed I spent many hours poring over IR spectrographs to determine the structure and composition of various organic compounds.
...deleted irrelevant Holy Link...

I don't believe you. Chemists do not deny science. You continue to deny the 1st and 2nd laws of thermodynamics and the Stefan-Boltzmann law.

 

[nolongertolerant]

DUDE! Use something other than a lying RIGHT-WING FAKE-NEWS website to get your quotes? OK!

Otherwise people are just going to laugh at you and ignore you for being such a vulnerable complicit idiot!

Real Clear Politics right wing? Just another stupid liberal I see.

 

[Into the Night]

It also conflicts with every day experience.

No, it doesn't.

Leave your water bottle out in the sun and it will trap plenty of heat lol.

That is not trapping heat. It is not possible to trap or slow heat. That is absorbing radiant energy from the sun and converting it into thermal energy. The Sun is heating the water bottle (and the water in it). The water bottle has thermal energy. Heat is the movement of thermal energy, not the thermal energy itself. Like a current in a river, it is the current, not the water itself.

Water molecules dispersed in the air will do the same thing.

Yes. They too absorb energy from the Sun. They also absorb infrared energy from the surface. They are colder than the surface. They do not heat the surface again. You cannot heat a warmer object with a colder one.

In fact water has a high specific heat, so it would be surprising if water vapor *didn't* absorb infrared radiation in the atmosphere.

It does. Absorption of surface infrared does not warm the Earth. You are forgetting that the surface is cooled by emitting infrared light.

And it would also be surprising if the heat wouldn’t dissipate fairly quickly into space rather than leading to some sort of catastrophe.

Earth radiates 24 hours a day in all directions into space. Any one spot absorbs energy from the Sun approx half that time (depending on latitude and season).

That’s why I say even a cursory understanding of the basic properties of water and air almost force one to be at least somewhat skeptical of the whole thing.

Water vapor doesn't have a very high specific heat. Liquid water does though. Clouds are liquid water. On a cloudy day, they will absorb sunlight until they vaporize again, leaving clear sky for the land and oceans to receive the full energy from the Sun. Remember, clouds form because of air temperature, humidity, and how fast that air cools as it rises. Not the reverse.

In a similar ‘common sense’ vein, if the planet really is warming, the prime suspect is the SUN!

Bingo.

You rule out the prime suspect out before moving on to more ‘exotic’ explanations like CO2.

Ah. Now comes the mathematics that the Church of Global Warming denies.

We don't even know if the Earth is warming. It's not possible to measure the temperature of the Earth. We don't have enough thermometers. What we do have is not uniformly spaced across the surface. Location grouping is significant in such statistics. They are not read at the same time. Time is significant in such statistics. The variance is not declared and the margin of error is not calculated. This is required in statistics. The instrument tolerance can safely be assumed to be +- 1 degree for weather station thermometers.

 

[Gonzomin]

China and India signed the Paris accord. They promised to work on cutting their global emissions. Only one country left and their emissions have grown as they are ending clean air acts.

 

[Into the Night]

The climate "crisis" is "almost entirely composed of slogans, caricatures, guesswork, assertion", and if I wanted to do anything other than throw my OPINION out to the internet, I could find just as many links to "reputable scientific organizations or journals. with expertise in climate science" to support my position as you can


This is the worst of it? What are you? A literary critic?


So you have "valuable time" to waste on an "obscure message board"? Check your ego at the door, man

The best reference for this is the theories themselves. They stand on their own. The theories of science involved are the 1st and 2nd laws of thermodynamics, and the Stefan-Boltzmann law.

Occasionally Planck's law and Kirchoff's law become involved. Fourier's law of thermal conduction is largely out of the picture since we are talking about radiance to space and absorption from the Sun (through space).

 

[Into the Night]

Thank-you. Now I wonder if the inconsistent left can grasp this bit of logic because I don't see
them traveling to India to raise hell over how THEY are killing the planet.

The world cattle inventory in 2018 is at 1.002 billion head.

India has the largest cattle inventory in the world in 2018 followed by Brazil & China. Roughly 63% of the world's cattle are in India, Brazil & China. (The cattle inventory in India includes water buffalo).

More than 90% of the world's cattle are NOT in the United States. The United States has the 4th largest cattle inventory in the world in 2018.
https://beef2live.com/story-world-cattle-inventory-ranking-countries-0-106905

Indians will not kill cattle because they might be reincarnated dead relatives. Therefore they roam around farting up the atmosphere.

However!!!!!! We here in America eat them thereby having LESS cow farts in the atmosphere!

Therefore, these idiots I'm seeing on the news are clueless. If they want LESS cows farting out there, then please KEEP making
burgers out of them!!!

...and steaks...and family BBQs...and hot dogs...and...mmmmmmmmm!

 

[Into the Night]

Thanks!

If they can't blame Whitey, the Left just doesn't care about it.

This is all about the Leftist's hatred for the White race.

This is all about the Leftist's hatred of anyone but their own elite.

When they have State dinners with their friends, do you think they are going to eat beans and tofu? Nah. They'll have steak. The rest of the schmucks in the world can eat beans and tofu.

 

[Into the Night]

look at India and China! and WE were supposed to just accept these with the Paris accord?

Yup!

 

[Into the Night]

China and India signed the Paris accord. They promised to work on cutting their global emissions. Only one country left and their emissions have grown as they are ending clean air acts.

CO2 is incapable of warming the Earth. It is a naturally occurring gas in the atmosphere. It is a required component of the atmosphere for life to exist on Earth.

Why do you want to prevent that which provides life?

Why do you trust a bunch of liars like Chinese government, the worst polluters on the planet?

 

[cancel2 2022]

You just denied science.

No. It is just part of what is radiating into space.

* It is not possible to trap or slow heat.
* It is not possible to trap thermal energy. There is always heat.
* It is not possible to trap light.

* It is not possible to trap light.

Irrelevance fallacy. Absorption of infrared light from the Earth's surface does not warm the Earth. The surface is COOLED by that process. It is simply transferring some of it's thermal energy to the atmosphere, just like does with conduction.

I don't believe you. Chemists do not deny science. You continue to deny the 1st and 2nd laws of thermodynamics and the Stefan-Boltzmann law.

I don't care if you believe me or not, I've studied thermodynamics and know you've a tenuous grasp of the subject at best.

 

[cancel2 2022]

China and India signed the Paris accord. They promised to work on cutting their global emissions. Only one country left and their emissions have grown as they are ending clean air acts.

Big fucking deal, both China and India's emissions are going through the roof. The USA has reduced theirs back to 1991 levels, why are you so fucking uninformed?

 

[Stretch]

This is all about the Leftist's hatred of anyone but their own elite.

When they have State dinners with their friends, do you think they are going to eat beans and tofu? Nah. They'll have steak. The rest of the schmucks in the world can eat beans and tofu.

Yep. This is why it's such a joke to hear the fringe calling for everyone to only eat veggies.
What do they want? All the cattle roaming around farting up the atmosphere????

 

[Adolf_Twitler]

Real Clear Politics right wing? Just another stupid liberal I see.

Keep talking parrot head! Squawk! Squawk! Squawk! Polly want a cracker?

 

[Into the Night]

I don't care if you believe me or not, I've studied thermodynamics and know you've a tenuous grasp of the subject at best.

I don't believe you. You are denying the 1st and 2nd laws of thermodynamics.

* You can't create energy out of nothing. (1st law of thermodynamics)
* You can't make heat flow from cold to hot. (2nd law of thermodynamics)
* You can't trap heat. (1st and 2nd law of thermodynamics)
* You can't trap thermal energy. There is always heat. (2nd law of thermodynamics)
* You can't trap light. (Planck's law)
* You can't reduce the radiance of Earth and increase its temperature at the same time. (Stefan-Boltzmann law)

If you think you can, explain how 'greenhouse effect' works without violating the 1st or 2nd laws of thermodynamics or the Stefan-Boltzmann law.

For reference:
1st law: energy(t+1) = energy(t) (in other words, energy can neither be created nor destroyed)
2nd law: entropy(t+1) >= entropy(t) (in other words, entropy must always increase or stay the same in any system. It can never decrease. This also means heat always flows from hot to cold, never the reverse.)
Stefan-Boltzmann law: radiance (in watts/sq meter) = 5.670367×10−8 * emissivity * temperature (in Kelvins) ^ 4

Go ahead.