PoliTalker
Diversity Makes Greatness
Lemme guess. They've been measuring sea level since the industrial age began.
$1B Climate Change Denial Industry: Getting Rich Telling Lies, Destroying Humanity...
- Thread starter PoliTalker
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Lemme guess. They've been measuring sea level since the industrial age began.
PoliTalker
Diversity Makes Greatness
You'll be waiting an awfully long time...
Just proved it.
What else could POSSIBLY make Republican States replace capitalism with socialism and start up government-run property insurance besides something really big?
Something called climate change.
gfm7175
Mega MAGA
Okay, let's examine this "proof"...
Sounds quite religious (as opposed to scientific) to me...
"It's 'all around you', but you just need a magickal 'holy eye' in order to see it... You simply lack faith"...
Sounds quite religious (as opposed to scientific) to me...
Reefs are doing just fine.
From what time period to what time period? Why is that selected time period 'sanctified' from all other time periods?
Ice tends to do that during the Summer months... It'll freeze up again during the Winter months...
Maybe Kaliphornia ought to actually properly manage their forests then... (I spell Kaliphornia that way because I don't consider them to be part of the Union anymore, since they reject not only the US Constitution, but their own Constitution as well. They are effectively their own Oligarchy at this point)
See my reply to "increased storms"...
See my reply to "increased storms"...
There is no way to accurately measure global sea level... There is no valid reference point with which to do so.
Actually, Science tells us that AGW is a bunch of hooey. Logic and Mathematics also tell us this.
Yup, I choose to accept logic, science, and mathematics, thanks...
Engineering is what allows us to fly.
No, it didn't. It just understands logic, science, and mathematics.
No response is necessary; there is no problem being caused by CO2.
PoliTalker
Diversity Makes Greatness
Hello gfm,
No, no response is necessary, (humans don't have to endure,) but one is prudent.
No, no response is necessary, (humans don't have to endure,) but one is prudent.
Some places long before that.
Its federal not state. Vacation homes are naturally down south because nobody retires up north.
But Poli we are talking science here, not political science. Right ?
PoliTalker
Diversity Makes Greatness
Hello Celticguy,
Yeah, I got ya with that one.
Total proof climate change is real and human caused.
Republicans instituted socialism.
Had to be something huge to cause that.
No other explanation.
Climate Change.
Yeah, I got ya with that one.
Total proof climate change is real and human caused.
Republicans instituted socialism.
Had to be something huge to cause that.
No other explanation.
Climate Change.
I wouldn't know. I'm a (true) liberal. But those that buy guns to protect themselves do so out of their own pocket. They don't force people like me to buy one.
What study did this Sir guy cite? I'd be interested in reading it. I'm open to learning and could be convinced.
Studies have shown that watching tv literally makes one stupid. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...upid-says-american-universities-a6759026.html
I rarely watch tv. When I do it's usually for major sporting events.
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gfm7175
Mega MAGA
What's happening? Why is it happening? What theories of science support this reasoning?
Proof? The air in America has been steadily getting cleaner since those horrible tree lovers got clean air bills passed decades ago. Trump is gutting the environmental agencies and now the air quality is dropping. The facts are there. Why rightys like pollution, I will never know.
PoliTalker
Diversity Makes Greatness
Hello gfm7175,
Climate Change.
The industrial age.
When billion humans burn things daily to utilize powered devices, the CO2 level in the atmosphere is raised. CO2 prevents heat from radiating out into space, thus warming the planet, changing the climate.
Climate Change.
The industrial age.
When billion humans burn things daily to utilize powered devices, the CO2 level in the atmosphere is raised. CO2 prevents heat from radiating out into space, thus warming the planet, changing the climate.
gfm7175
Mega MAGA
Hello PoliTalker,
Can you please define this terminology for me? What IS "Climate Change"? Remember that circular definitions are meaningless...
That has been happening since before the USA even became a nation, yet AGW has only been a fairly recent issue??
Okay. And what's the problem with that?
CO2 is not capable of trapping heat. No gas or vapor can trap heat.
With this assertion, you are attempting to decrease Earth's radiance while simultaneously increasing Earth's temperature. This is not possible. See the Stefan Boltzmann Law for reference.
With this assertion, you are also attempting to decrease entropy in a system. That, also, is not possible. See the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics for reference.
There is no such thing as "the" climate. There is no singular "global climate". Earth actually has numerous climates.
PoliTalker
Diversity Makes Greatness
Hello gfm7175,
I appreciate that you are going to every extent possible to deny climate change. That is your right. And you really do a marvelous job. Looking for every possible thing to dispute, leaving no stone unturned. It is commendable, your knack for knocking it. If there was a medal for finding every little point to beef about, you'd be a prime candidate. Very impressive effort.
I just happen to think arguing about it is extremely foolish. It is absurd to think that 7 billion humans burning things daily would have no effect. For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. It is a law of physics.
Earth's climate has changed many times over the millennia. Each occurrence has resulted in devastation to life and mass species loss. We are living in the 6th major species loss event, and the first time it has been caused by one species.
Over a billion dollars a year is spent on denying climate change. The reason that is done is because trillions of dollars are made from keeping wasteful energy industry in place. Too many of the super-rich are obsessed with money, even though they already have way more than a person could even spend in a lifetime of opulence. I actually feel sorry for the greediest rich people like President Trump, because they have completely lost sight of how to enjoy life, falsely believing that money buys happiness and more money must buy more. That is just flatly false. Once a person has enough money to live a comfortable life, more money beyond that amount does not increase happiness, but may even lead to far more stress in life and lack of happiness. Such as in Trump's case.
It is like they are in a race to be the richest, though none of them can tell you why. Bragging rights? They think the old joke about he who dies with the most toys wins? Wins WHAT??? There is no medal for being the richest, and bragging about wealth is considered in extremely poor taste. Just as poor taste as creating gaudy displays of wealth, simply for the sake of showing it off, as if to prove to others they are rich. If they don't already know they are happy, no amount of glitz will result in any more happiness. Happiness is not the result of displaying or bragging about wealth.
Happiness comes from enjoying life with love and friendship of good people, loved ones, friends and acquaintances. Enjoying the passage of time. Doing things that make you feel good. We only have so much time to be alive as humans, and any time wasted in the pursuit of needless wealth is not spent simply enjoying life. Trump is an angry man, full of stress and controversy. I have never heard of an individual with so many court cases. Suing and going to court over disputes is definitely not enjoying life. I truly feel sorry for him. He just wasted the last few years of opportunity to be a dad and spend quality time with his son who is just now becoming a teenager. He could have gone fishing, to the beach, play ball, go camping, play music, listen to it, whatever. He did none of that. He let the opportunity pass him by. Everybody knows what happens when kids become teens. They are no longer kids you can have fun with like is possible during those pre-teen years. What a waste.
Trump could seriously enhance his happiness with mental counseling, and could easily afford very high quality counseling, but his ego won't let him do it because he thinks he is the best at everything. What a loser. One thing is for sure. He is very good at alienating people, which is why he is routinely left out of social gatherings, parties, and events. People who know better than him how to enjoy life don't want his downer energy spoiling their fun. Old money shuns him, and there is a reason why. He is a drag. He is wrong about how to enjoy life and he is wrong about climate change.
I appreciate that you are going to every extent possible to deny climate change. That is your right. And you really do a marvelous job. Looking for every possible thing to dispute, leaving no stone unturned. It is commendable, your knack for knocking it. If there was a medal for finding every little point to beef about, you'd be a prime candidate. Very impressive effort.
I just happen to think arguing about it is extremely foolish. It is absurd to think that 7 billion humans burning things daily would have no effect. For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. It is a law of physics.
Earth's climate has changed many times over the millennia. Each occurrence has resulted in devastation to life and mass species loss. We are living in the 6th major species loss event, and the first time it has been caused by one species.
Over a billion dollars a year is spent on denying climate change. The reason that is done is because trillions of dollars are made from keeping wasteful energy industry in place. Too many of the super-rich are obsessed with money, even though they already have way more than a person could even spend in a lifetime of opulence. I actually feel sorry for the greediest rich people like President Trump, because they have completely lost sight of how to enjoy life, falsely believing that money buys happiness and more money must buy more. That is just flatly false. Once a person has enough money to live a comfortable life, more money beyond that amount does not increase happiness, but may even lead to far more stress in life and lack of happiness. Such as in Trump's case.
It is like they are in a race to be the richest, though none of them can tell you why. Bragging rights? They think the old joke about he who dies with the most toys wins? Wins WHAT??? There is no medal for being the richest, and bragging about wealth is considered in extremely poor taste. Just as poor taste as creating gaudy displays of wealth, simply for the sake of showing it off, as if to prove to others they are rich. If they don't already know they are happy, no amount of glitz will result in any more happiness. Happiness is not the result of displaying or bragging about wealth.
Happiness comes from enjoying life with love and friendship of good people, loved ones, friends and acquaintances. Enjoying the passage of time. Doing things that make you feel good. We only have so much time to be alive as humans, and any time wasted in the pursuit of needless wealth is not spent simply enjoying life. Trump is an angry man, full of stress and controversy. I have never heard of an individual with so many court cases. Suing and going to court over disputes is definitely not enjoying life. I truly feel sorry for him. He just wasted the last few years of opportunity to be a dad and spend quality time with his son who is just now becoming a teenager. He could have gone fishing, to the beach, play ball, go camping, play music, listen to it, whatever. He did none of that. He let the opportunity pass him by. Everybody knows what happens when kids become teens. They are no longer kids you can have fun with like is possible during those pre-teen years. What a waste.
Trump could seriously enhance his happiness with mental counseling, and could easily afford very high quality counseling, but his ego won't let him do it because he thinks he is the best at everything. What a loser. One thing is for sure. He is very good at alienating people, which is why he is routinely left out of social gatherings, parties, and events. People who know better than him how to enjoy life don't want his downer energy spoiling their fun. Old money shuns him, and there is a reason why. He is a drag. He is wrong about how to enjoy life and he is wrong about climate change.
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gfm7175
Mega MAGA
I'm merely asking you to define the terminology that you are using. You consistently refuse to provide me with a workable definition of the term.
I'm also asking you to examine the currently standing theories of science which tell us that it is not possible to trap heat, that it is not possible for CO2 to heat the Earth, and that it is not possible for Earth's radiance to decrease while its temperature simultaneously increases. The Stefan Boltzmann Law tells us that radiance and temperature are directly proportional. The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics tells us that heat only flows from hot to cold and that entropy cannot decrease in any system.
Helping people to understand why AGW fails as a model is not foolish. Choosing to remain ignorant of the laws of science being presented to you as counterarguments IS foolish, however...
I never claimed that actions don't have effects...
Are you claiming that every single man, woman, child, toddler, and infant "burns things" daily? Although, I'm not sure what you precisely mean by "burns things"...
There is no such thing as a "global climate". What IS Earth's climate? Is the Earth hot and arid? Is it cold? Is it humid? Is it wet? Is it dry? Remember that it is currently Summer in the northern hemisphere and Winter in the southern hemisphere...
And how do you know what happened hundreds of millions of years ago? Was there anybody around to experience those events?
Ready to meaningfully define what "climate change" even IS yet?
What is "wasteful energy industry"? Can you expand upon what precisely is "wasteful" about it?
You seem quite obsessed with money yourself... specifically other people's money...
You don't get to determine how much money is "enough" for someone else to have. You are not a dictator.
He seems to be enjoying his life, meanwhile you seem to have an unhealthy obsession with other people's money.
You don't get to determine how much is "enough" for someone else.
Trump seems happy to me. Meanwhile, you seem to have an unhealthy obsession with his wealth, as his wealth seems to greatly bother you.
Fine by me.
Fine by me. Their wealth is not my concern.
Please define "climate change" in a meaningful way (ie, not circular) and please address my counterarguments regarding the laws of science which stand in the way of your Magick Blanket Argument.
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PoliTalker
Diversity Makes Greatness
Hello gfm7175,
Anyone who doesn't understand the term Climate Change by now has simply not been paying attention or is determined to avoid recognizing it.
This argument is nothing more than an attempt to divert the conversation away from the crux, and instead become mired in unimportant details.
That may be true, but that doesn't tell the whole story. Heat does not flow instantly. Rather, the duration required for heat transfer is controlled by the coefficient of thermal conductivity. And never was it claimed that ALL of the heat is trapped by CO2. That is actually a layman's explanation. Instead, what is occurring is that the increased CO2 density increases the coefficient of thermal conductivity of the atmosphere, thus resulting in less radiation, and a resultant increase of heat level on the planet. If it were not for this effect (which has been raised by industrial activity,) the Earth would instantly radiate all of it's heat out into space, and be so cold that it would be quite uninhabitable. It has been said that we live in a bubble, and that bubble is our heat-'trapping' atmosphere, which does not precisely trap all of the heat, but enough to make life on Earth possible.
My, such a penchant for arguing the minutia. By saying '7 billion humans burning things daily,' I was referring to the fact that most of the over 7 billion humans on Earth eat cooked food and/or use energy derived from burning things.
The above is a direct quote from you, which you placed in a quote box claiming I wrote it. Such a disingenuous tactic indicates an inability to directly refute an argument. It is rather evident also by the continual reliance upon dissecting the argument into semantics, parading as technical observations. The real message is there is nothing there to refute that basic concept that the industrial age which has brought is a higher standard of living has come at the terrible price of sacrificing the future habitat for the dirty short-sided luxuries of the present.
We can have abundant luxuries when we learn to tap into clean renewable energy and to control human population levels at an amount which is sustainable by this finite planet.
It does not stand to reason that an infinite number of humans can exist on a set of finite resources. Such thinking is as illogical as religion.
Anyone who doesn't understand the term Climate Change by now has simply not been paying attention or is determined to avoid recognizing it.
This argument is nothing more than an attempt to divert the conversation away from the crux, and instead become mired in unimportant details.
That may be true, but that doesn't tell the whole story. Heat does not flow instantly. Rather, the duration required for heat transfer is controlled by the coefficient of thermal conductivity. And never was it claimed that ALL of the heat is trapped by CO2. That is actually a layman's explanation. Instead, what is occurring is that the increased CO2 density increases the coefficient of thermal conductivity of the atmosphere, thus resulting in less radiation, and a resultant increase of heat level on the planet. If it were not for this effect (which has been raised by industrial activity,) the Earth would instantly radiate all of it's heat out into space, and be so cold that it would be quite uninhabitable. It has been said that we live in a bubble, and that bubble is our heat-'trapping' atmosphere, which does not precisely trap all of the heat, but enough to make life on Earth possible.
My, such a penchant for arguing the minutia. By saying '7 billion humans burning things daily,' I was referring to the fact that most of the over 7 billion humans on Earth eat cooked food and/or use energy derived from burning things.
The above is a direct quote from you, which you placed in a quote box claiming I wrote it. Such a disingenuous tactic indicates an inability to directly refute an argument. It is rather evident also by the continual reliance upon dissecting the argument into semantics, parading as technical observations. The real message is there is nothing there to refute that basic concept that the industrial age which has brought is a higher standard of living has come at the terrible price of sacrificing the future habitat for the dirty short-sided luxuries of the present.
We can have abundant luxuries when we learn to tap into clean renewable energy and to control human population levels at an amount which is sustainable by this finite planet.
It does not stand to reason that an infinite number of humans can exist on a set of finite resources. Such thinking is as illogical as religion.
gfm7175
Mega MAGA
Not at all. You simply keep refusing to define the terminology that you are making use of. I can't "pay attention" or "recognize" that which has yet to even be defined...
No, I'm keeping it focused right ON the crux, which is defining WTF "climate change" even is...
??? Yeah, it does...
It is not possible to trap heat.
Please see the Stefan Boltzmann Law... [radiance=Boltzmann constant * emissivity * temperature ^ 4]
Radiance is on one side of the equation... Temperature (along with constants) is on the other side of the equation. Therefore, the two things are directly proportional. It is mathematically IMPOSSIBLE to increase temperature while simultaneously decreasing radiance.
Heat is not a thing; it is the flow of a thing.
What about the existence of the sun??
It is not possible to trap heat. I will repeat Into The Night's argument (from his "open discussion" sister thread) in this thread, since I feel that it would be wise of you to think about it for a second...
Our space station sees a sunlit side of the outer skin regularly reach temperatures of 250 deg F. It has no atmosphere, no CO2, nothing. On Earth, it never gets anywhere near that hot anywhere, yet we have a temperature magick CO2 gas, the works. If CO2 or an atmosphere warms the Earth, why is Earth so much colder?
CO2 is obviously not warming the Earth.
Alrighty. I understand your assertion now. People doing those things is fine by me.
You DID write it though... I simply deleted what you wrote, of which I made obvious that I deleted it, and summarized for all readers precisely why I deleted it. It was irrelevant; it was distracting away from your unwillingness to define your terminology. Your thread is about "climate change" (which you have yet to define what you mean by that), it is NOT about Trump nor the other things you chose to go on a rant about to divert away from the issue at hand.
I directly refuted your arguments, and am doing so even now...
What price?
We have already been doing so. Coal, Oil, Natural Gas, etc. are all clean renewable energy sources.
If you are advocating for human "population level controls", then I suggest, as I always do to anyone who proposes this, that you lead by example... You first...
??? Humans ARE resources, dude...
??? Religion IS logical. Your rejection of currently standing laws of science is what ISN'T logical.