Suicide

[LV426]

""Between 2007 and 2016, some 5 million people moved in to California and 6 million people moved out to other states — a net loss of about 1 million residents, the report relayed.""

So that's a curious window to cherry pick out, right?

Between 2007 and 2016, we had a massive recession that caused a lot of relocation within the country thanks to the drop in housing prices, and people losing their homes.

Curious why you think relying on a 9-year time frame, that included the recession caused by policies you continue to support, absent of context prior to it and after it, helps your argument?

 

[LV426]

The supplemental poverty rate has been used and reported on for years. If you don't like it blame the academics and your fellow progressives who created it.

So this is typical, lazy cawacko argumentation.

He submits forth a statistic, in a vacuum, and refuses to explain what that statistic actually means, where it comes from, and how it has any relevance to the debate.

Cawacko is so fucking lazy, that he furiously and sloppily just does random Google searches for cherry picked info, with which he makes tenuous arguments that he can't even back up.

Cawacko, what exactly does the supplemental poverty rate take into consideration?

What are the details?

Do you even know?

Doubtful, since you have a habit of talking about things of which you are "pretty dumb".

So just like economics, isn't it possible you're also "pretty dumb" on the topic of CA's population, its trends, and its habits?

 

[Oneuli]

No. So why did you imply it?

I didn't. Reread.

So why did you imply it?

I didn't. Reread.

You're not going to get any definitive answers on an anonymous political forum.

I'm not looking for definitive answers. I'm looking for intelligent ideas, which could open paths for research. I'm also looking to get people to approach the question more thoughtfully, based on the data, rather than in the David Brooks way of just looking for an opportunity to ride a habitual hobby horse.

Yes. https://www.justplainpolitics.com/sh...96#post3076896

Then share it. That link is non-responsive.

So what's your point?

My point is that makes it seem less likely that the high suicide rates we see in conservative areas are due to liberals in conservative areas killing themselves at high rates. It appears, rather that there's something about those areas that makes people suicidally depressed -- not so much the blacks and Hispanics there, but the white people. What do you think makes them so depressed?

 

[Oneuli]

So the articles I posted and all the reports that show California losing population among migration within the states are all a big lie?

No, dumb dumb, the lie was when you pretended California was losing population when, in fact, it was gaining.

Stop your sniveling and face up to the fact you were caught. You tried to deceive the forum, but ran into someone who knew the truth, and outed you as a liar. Do better in the future.

The supplemental poverty rate has been used and reported on for years.

Yes. And when honest people use and report on it, they call it out as the supplemental measure. When liars do, they just call it the poverty rate. We both know which camp you're in.

 

[Ralph]

So this is typical, lazy cawacko argumentation.

He submits forth a statistic, in a vacuum, and refuses to explain what that statistic actually means, where it comes from, and how it has any relevance to the debate.

Cawacko is so fucking lazy, that he furiously and sloppily just does random Google searches for cherry picked info, with which he makes tenuous arguments that he can't even back up.

Cawacko, what exactly does the supplemental poverty rate take into consideration?

What are the details?

Do you even know?

Doubtful, since you have a habit of talking about things of which you are "pretty dumb".

So just like economics, isn't it possible you're also "pretty dumb" on the topic of CA's population, its trends, and its habits?

A prime example of PROGRESSIVES who feign EQULITY for everyone......would be the city of San Francisco. The liberals totally govern that city, they took a once great city with a great Middle Class population and morphed it into 2 classes of people....the very rich and the very poor. Now they are bitching an complaining about what their own policies have wrought. INCOME INEQULAITY.

First they create a problem then campaign on fixing a problem their policies have created. Now you can't walk down the streets of San Fran without stepping in human feces or tripping over discarded drug paraphernalia contaminated with every known bacteria and virus known to mankind. You have people living in cardboard boxes eating from dumpsters on one street and the elite Techno SNOBS eating LOBSTER and caviar on the next street.

 

[LV426]

A prime example of PROGRESSIVES who feign EQULITY for everyone......would be the city of San Francisco. The liberals totally govern that city, they took a once great city with a great Middle Class population and morphed it into 2 classes of people....the very rich and the very poor. Now they are bitching an complaining about what their own policies have wrought. INCOME INEQULAITY

Look, the negative trends in SF started in 1980 when you all cut taxes for the rich and lionized the wealthy, fighting against any income equality legislation, destroying unions, and refusing to raise wages.

First they create a problem then campaign on fixing a problem their policies have created. Now you can't walk down the streets of San Fran without stepping in human feces or tripping over discarded drug paraphernalia contaminated with every known bacteria and virus known to mankind. You have people living in cardboard boxes eating from dumpsters on one street and the elite Techno SNOBS eating LOBSTER and caviar on the next street.

I was just in SF a couple weeks ago...it was totally fine.

I was also just in Alabama a couple weeks ago too...it was not totally fine.

 

[TTQ64]

Possibly. The social dysfunction of rural America is a really big story that I think needs more attention. It's not just the suicide rates, either. There's a relative lack of academic accomplish, low productivity, low life expectancy, high obesity, etc.



To be clear, I'm not arguing the individuals who are killing themselves are conservative. I'm arguing that the societies controlled by conservatives produce a lot of people who kill themselves. That's a clear difference. Alaska has long been dominated by Republicans, who set policies that impact liberal and conservative residents alike.



First, no, suicides are the MUCH bigger problem. The US has about 15.3 suicides per 100k, versus 5.3 per 100k for murders.

Second, I'd be happy to discuss murder rates. Murder is disproportionately a red-state problem. The highest murder rates are in the South, which as a region has a rate of 6.4. The region with the lowest murder rate is the Northeast, at 3.5. The worst states, in order, are LA, MO, NV, MD, AR, AK, AL, MS, IL, SC, and TN, in order (TN and SC are tied, so I listed them both. Of those, eight went for Trump and only three to Clinton. At the other end of the spectrum, the best states are NH, ND, ME, RI, ID, MN, VT, NE, UT, OR, and MA (OR and MA are tied). That's seven for Clinton, four for Trump.

So, what do you think it is about conservative-dominated states that makes them so violent?

"why don't you give us some information about states that voted for Hillary and the murder rate? Murder is a bigger problem than suicide".

Translation: Black on Black crime......the lie the racist white man loves to spout when their violent ass's are called out.

You kicked his ass in this post...…..Bravo to you!

 

[anonymoose]

I'm not looking for definitive answers. I'm looking for intelligent ideas, which could open paths for research. I'm also looking to get people to approach the question more thoughtfully, based on the data, rather than in the David Brooks way of just looking for an opportunity to ride a habitual hobby horse.



Then share it. That link is non-responsive.

I teach high school. When you see virtually every 9th grader on campus running around with a damn View attachment 10092t-shirt 2 months before the election, you make some assumptions. But never ask them a question that requires any deep political thought. Look up "deer in the headlights" in the dictionary and there's a picture of a 15 year old hillary supporter. To tie this in with the OP, the day after the election, not a View attachment 10092t-shirt to be found, and the look of soul crushing butt hurt on their little faces was actually painful for me to behold. How did kids get so emotionally invested in politics? ADULTS!! You remember seeing these?

View attachment 10094View attachment 10095View attachment 10096View attachment 10097

Not a good look on an adult, much less a kid. Particularly when it's over a damned politician

My point is that makes it seem less likely that the high suicide rates we see in conservative areas are due to liberals in conservative areas killing themselves at high rates. It appears, rather that there's something about those areas that makes people suicidally depressed -- not so much the blacks and Hispanics there, but the white people.

Well, you didn't disappoint. You took the bait. You're point in starting this thread was to troll. Red states have higher suicide rates than blue states = red states bad, blue states good.

What do you think makes them so depressed?

You gave one possible explanation:

Keep in mind, blacks and Hispanics actually kill themselves at lower rates than whites.

Inferring that race is one defining factor. I gave another:

As to Alaska, the suicide rate among Native Alaskan teens is thru the roof. And Natives vote democrat.
That's no doubt true in other states with a larger percentage of Native Americans.

In fact we both infer that the defining factor is race. Whites and native Americans simply kill themselves at higher rates. Less populated states tend to be white therefore vote red. States with higher Native populations tend to be plains states or Southwest and they have higher suicide rates.

Since we both seem to agree that race is the defining factor for predicting suicide, let's ponder another question: Why do you suppose blue counties have a higher murder rate than red ones?

 

[TTQ64]

Ah yes, I understand what you're saying. Those that tend to vote democrat living in red states have an increased tendency to commit suicide.



A rhetorical question based on your previous point made about dem voters in red states committing suicide.
We all know that demographically blacks commit murders at a much high rate than other races and that blacks overwhlemingly vote dem, therefore blacks living in red states commit murder at higher rates than blacks living in blue states.

I guess your point is that red states aren't doing enough to keep dem voters from killing themselves or each other.
Maybe we can look at what blue states are doing to prevent reupub voter from killing themselves and each other.
My guess is nothing and my hypothesis is that dem voters get depressed easier and are more violent and living in red states increases their depression and violent behavior.
As far as dem voters being more depressed , I base that on having watched the reaction of hrc supporters when they realized Trump was going to win and on the pundits on PMSNBC, CNN, ABC, et al who looked like they just ate a lemon.

Told you...……….ole racist fuck.

 

[cawacko]

No, dumb dumb, the lie was when you pretended California was losing population when, in fact, it was gaining.

Stop your sniveling and face up to the fact you were caught. You tried to deceive the forum, but ran into someone who knew the truth, and outed you as a liar. Do better in the future.



Yes. And when honest people use and report on it, they call it out as the supplemental measure. When liars do, they just call it the poverty rate. We both know which camp you're in.

READ what I wrote. You tried to call me out when you didn't read what I wrote. What I said is 100% accurate and I posted info to back it. .

 

[Oneuli]

Don't veterans have a higher suicide rate than the rest of the population?

Yes. However, the gap doesn't appear to be enough to explain the regional differences in suicide rates. Veteran suicide rates are 30.1/100k, which is 1.5 times the age- and gender-adjusted non-veteran level:

https://www.mentalhealth.va.gov/doc...ational_Suicide_Data_Report_2005-2016_508.pdf

So, look here:

https://www.census.gov/library/visualizations/2015/comm/percent-veterans.html

Let's compare NY and WV, just to take two states towards the higher and lower end of veteran percent. So, let's imagine you had 6% of New Yorkers with a suicide rate of 30.1/100k (the veterans at the average veteran rate), and 94% at 20.1/100k (the non-veterans at the average non-veteran rate). That would give you a combined rate of 20.7%. Meanwhile, say you had 11% of West Virginians at 30.1 and 89% at 20.1. That would be a combined rate of 21.2% (a little higher than NY, due to nearly twice the share of veterans). So, in rough terms, if the only difference between NY and WV were different shares of veterans, we'd expect their suicide rates to be very close -- WV would be just 2.4% higher than NY. In reality, NY has a suicide rate of 6.0/100k and WV is at 13.2/100k, putting WV more than twice as high as NY. Clearly, a lot more is going on that some states having more veterans than others.

Those stats aren't perfect comparison, since the VA link I provided gives suicide rates for age 18 and over, whereas the other link provides them for all ages, which will mean lower rates, but the concept is still illustrative. The overall size of the veteran population and the difference in veteran population from state to state are both small enough that it's isn't going to be sufficient to come close to explaining the gigantic differences in suicide rates between the states, where some states have over 3 times the suicide rates of others. I don't have suicide rates for vets and non-vets broken down by state, but I'd bet good money that, for example, veterans in Alaska kill themselves more often than veterans in NY, and non-veterans in Alaska kill themselves ore often than non-veterans in NY.

 

[Oneuli]

READ what I wrote. You tried to call me out when you didn't read what I wrote. What I said is 100% accurate and I posted info to back it. .

As you know, what you wrote was a lie, and then you had one of your histrionic fits when you were called out for your dishonesty.

 

[TTQ64]

I'm sure you do.



What makes you think that? Or is this one of those cases where you're too frightened to engage with my actual argument, and so you're trying to assign me a position I've never taken, that you feel brave enough to attack. If so, nut up and do better, little one.



Blue states are expensive -- and generally cold. That drives away some of the young (those less capable of competing in a job market where elite educations are common), as well as some of the old (those looking to make their retirement dollar stretch farther in a warmer climate).



Here's California's population:

Facts matter.



You're saying "here's a lie I invented, now how does that lie square with what you're saying?" If you want to argue there is almost nobody in those cities who isn't poor or rich, post a stat to support that.



As we've discussed, that's not even close to true. The only way to pretend it's true is to throw out the poverty rate and come up with a new measure that effectively penalizes an area for having desirable real estate.

He's been spewing these lies about CA for as long as I can remember.

No one listens to him but his right wing buddies who hate CA.

 

[USFREEDOM911]

They'd follow through less often and succeed a smaller share of the time. Obviously.

And your proof of your conclusion is...……………………………...what??

 

[cawacko]

As you know, what you wrote was a lie, and then you had one of your histrionic fits when you were called out for your dishonesty.

Post any information that says California has had an increase in population based on migration within the U.S. I'll gladly wait as long as it takes.

 

[TTQ64]

I have no data to support that idea. Do you?



That doesn't follow, logically.



It isn't. Nothing I said implied that. I don't know why red-staters (and, it turns out, red-county residents) kill themselves at heightened rates. I'm looking for explanations for why.



Do you have any support for that? Keep in mind, blacks and Hispanics actually kill themselves at lower rates than whites.

You are making him look foolish.....keep up the good work.

 

[TTQ64]

If you're not lying then you lack reading comprehension and are ignorant to migration patterns in and out of California.

I specifically said California has lost population within the U.S. I didn't say we have lost population overall.

You can find any number of articles on the subject. Anyone who lives in California knows this.

This article is old but the numbers haven't changed:

""An unprecedented number of Californians left for other states during the last decade, according to new tax return data from the Internal Revenue Service.

About 5 million Californians left between 2004 and 2013. Roughly 3.9 million people came here from other states during that period, for a net population loss of more than 1 million people.""


https://www.sacbee.com/news/databases/article32679753.html


Here's another one with more updated numbers:

""Between 2007 and 2016, some 5 million people moved in to California and 6 million people moved out to other states — a net loss of about 1 million residents, the report relayed.""


https://www.sandiegouniontribune.co...thy-people-per-report-20180221-htmlstory.html



These are just basic facts. Yet you are lying about them. Funny how similar you and Trump are.



Sure, why would we include cost of living in measuring poverty? These progressives and academics who created the supplemental poverty measure are all just closest right wingers and free market types who want to punish areas who don't build housing. You caught them LV.

I live in CA and it's a lie...…..this entire post is a lie.

You've been lying on CA to promote your right wing agenda.

RE is high all across the country because of crooked, greedy, corrupt RE developers like dump who have gamed the system over the decades.

 

[Oneuli]

What's new about corruption and MURDER? The unpardonable sin......SELF MURDER. What's surprising about suicide? Its nature's way of weeding out the weak minded. Who needs such a gene passed on to the next generation? Was man created to wallow in "SELF PITTY" and blame everyone but self for all the piss poor life decisions they have made? Why has suicide became so in vouge?

It's not primarily genetic, though. If it were, we'd expect roughly the same suicide rates in, say, Montana and Massachusetts, since the genetic mix in each would be expected to be fairly similar. Yet they have radically different suicide rates. That suggests a sociological explanation. There's something about living in Montana that makes people want to kill themselves at high rates.

There is a correlation between PROGRESSIVE/SOCIALISM and suicide.

The data suggest a reverse correlation -- that the more progressive a society is, the less likely it is to have a high suicide rate. The question is why.

Who really leads the field in the area of SUICIDE? TRUMP VOTERS? Hardly.....its queers and Hollywood elites.

I don't have good stats on individuals, but the stats are widely available down to county levels. Hollywood is in Las Angeles county. The suicide rate there is 7.8/100k -- well below the national norm. If you want to find higher rates, look to Trump country. For example, in Sevier County, Utah, the rate is 38.5/100k. The people there voted for Trump over Clinton by over 7-to-1. They also kill themselves almost five times as often as people in Las Angeles county. The question is what is behind this correlation between conservative societies and suicidal depression.

 

[Oneuli]

Post any information that says California has had an increase in population based on migration within the U.S.

Why? That's not what we'd need to dispute your lie. I already posted the data showing uninterrupted population growth in California. If your comment had been that California had more people migrate away from it than migrated to it from other states, that wouldn't have been a lie. But since you decided to lie, instead, I called you out on it. Now you're trying to pretend you said something else, but the comment is preserved clearly in the thread, so everyone knows you're a liar. Tough luck. Next time, try NOT lying.

 

[TTQ64]

California's total population has not declined.

You're trying to make the argument that there has been a mad rush of migration out of California, and that is simply not true, not supported by any stats, and ignores the fact that CA's population continues to grow. So for the people who may have left, they are replaced by more people either being born in CA or moving there.

Cawacko wants people to think everyone is leaving CA because it is controlled by Democrats, yet can't seem to produce any evidence to support it other than his bullshit anecdotal evidence that is obviously a lie.

Bingo! That is exactly what he's getting at.