NATO expansion set the stage for meddling in the Euromaidan - which begat the Crimean annexation etc.
2019 Moscow Victory Day Parade
- Thread starter dukkha
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Defending our democracy against attempts to subvert it by Russian state security services, and shining a light on Putin's repression of freedom and illegal invasions of sovereign neighboring states is not Russophobic. It is the obligation of a patriotic American and of any proponent of human freedom and dignity.
It is not a zero sum game, where false logic presents only two choices: Being a Russophobic war-monger or being a Putin puppet.
Russia has legitimate interests and grievances. As do we. There is nothing that prevents us from defending our democracy, spotlighting the flaws in Putin's authoritarian oligarchy, while also acknowledging our own faults, acknowledging legitimate Russian grievances, getting them to recognize our grievances, and working towards constructive dialogue on a range on mutual interests like nuclear proliferation, climate change, global environmental degradation, and terrorism.
Anyone presenting a false black-or-white choice is indulging in false logic and bogus premise.
we are not cooperating on anything. There is no dialog on proliferation -we just dropped out of the INF treaty.
we are not talking about how to best keep the Arctic pristine ( using western tech ) we are in a Cold War 2.0
we are expanding and beefing up NATO. There is zero cooperation, or talking about cooperations.
All politicians -with some exceptions by Trump - some - are advocating a zero sum game
I do not agree 100 percent with all of that.
But I will say this. The citizens of Paris, London, New York, or Dallas would never have tolerated the privations, the starvation, the death and terror that citizens of Leningrad tolerated in their resistance to Nazi aggression. Paris almost let the Nazis walk in on a whim. Americans and British alike would have caved to a Nazi siege and ferocious as the one the citizens of Leningrad endured for years on end.
At that is exactly why I basically laugh at the myth that Ronald Reagan increasing the Pentagon budget by ten percent, or whatever, was somehow the magic bullet that caused citizens of the Soviet Union to cave and cry uncle.
So you are adept at jerking off with both hands. TMI
That is due to your man, Trumpf whose ego has him convinced that we need a massive military build up and a nuclear arms race.
That is exactly what you support. Nationalism. Trump style nationalism. Which means pulling out on international treaties, disengaging internationally, alienating long standing allies, and building "fortress America" with big beautiful walls protecting us and a massive and fearsome peacetime military industrial complex our bequest to our children and grandchildren.
Russia has been violation the INF for years. Your characterization of nationalism is hyperbolic fantasy - we are fine with NATO- but they had to pay up and that was going on for years as well.
If you can't see the fact 100k migrants are crossing a month between ports of entry,and a wall would eliminate almost all of that -then I leave you to your fantasy of "fortress America"
No other country comes close to our legal immigration allowances ( numbers)
Russia defends right to deploy missiles after Kaliningrad rebuke
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...ssiles-after-kaliningrad-rebuke-idUSKBN1FQ1AG
Airstrip One
Completely Effed
of course you do. and you hate the south, and the Germans... do you like the fact Russian and China are now strategic military partners?? That was the end of the Nixon's China card which we played carefully for decadesI like NATO expansion and not getting along with Russia.
NATO expansion has made us into a zero sum relationship with Russia -it's the underlying bedrock for Russiaphobia
and it's why John McCain and Vicky Nuland stirred the shit in the Euromaidan.
It's why our Defense budget is massively oriented toward Europe
Russia claims the U.S. violated the INF treaty.
And that claim is indepedently supported.
A normal president might make the effort to resolve these claims of joint violations and re-calibrate the treaty to both nation's satisfaction.
But what we know is that Trump is the worst diplomat ever to be allowed to occupy the office of the presidency, he has no interest in learning or getting better at statecraft and diplomacy, and until Trump leaves office we are stuck with a president who has no capability or skill - none, nada, zilch - at diplomacy and negotiation.
It is an objective fact that Trump is a moron, a laughing stock, and has no diplomatic skills whatsoever.
So once again, it is your vote for Trump that brought us to this point.
Centerleftfl
Verified User
Very sadly true of the RUSSIAN civilian casualties... Here's the entire list (charts don't c&p worth a damn but you get the idea.
DEATHS BY COUNTRY
DEATHS BY COUNTRY
Country Military Deaths Total Civilian/Military Deaths
Albania 30,000 30,200
Australia 39,800 40,500
Austria 261,000 384,700
Belgium 12,100 86,100
Brazil 1,000 2,000
Bulgaria 22,000 25,000
Canada 45,400 45,400
China 3-4,000,000 20,000,000
Czechoslovakia 25,000 345,000
Denmark 2,100 3,200
Dutch East Indies 3-4,000,000
Estonia 51,000
Ethiopia 5,000 100,000
Finland 95,000 97,000
France 217,600 567,600
French Indochina 1-1,500,000
Germany 5,533,000 6,600,000-8,800,000
Greece 20,000-35,000 300,000-800,000
Hungary 300,000 580,000
India 87,000 1,500,000-2,500,000
Italy 301,400 457,000
Japan 2,120,000 2,600,000-3,100,000
Korea 378,000-473,000
Latvia 227,000
Lithuania 353,000
Luxembourg 2,000
Malaya 100,000
Netherlands 17,000 301,000
New Zealand 11,900 11,900
Norway 3,000 9,500
Papua New Guinea 15,000
Philippines 57,000 500,000-1,000,000
Poland 240,000 5,600,000
Rumania 300,000 833,000
Singapore 50,000
South Africa 11,900 11,900
Soviet Union 8,800,000-10,700,000 24,000,000
United Kingdom 383,600 450,700
United States 416,800 418,500
Yugoslavia 446,000 1,000,000
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Centerleftfl
Verified User
The nihilists will find that comforting. And there are a HELLUVA LOT of Christian Conservatives that are 'bring it on'!!
My father's village was in Nazi-occupied territory for three years, and the old timers that still live there told me about half population of the village perished during the occupation. And that might not even be as bad as the thousands of towns and villages that were just simply torched to the ground. Presumably there was a lot of German retaliation for all the partisan resistance attacks.
There really is just no way for an American to get their head around the scale of death and destruction that occurred on the eastern front. And for all the bad things we can say about the Soviet government, and all the terrible things they did, a fair person can at least grasp why the Russians were so keen - indeed so obsessed - on keeping a security buffer and client states around the periphery of their borders.
Airstrip One
Completely Effed
I don't believe that Russia and China can maintain friendly relations for very long. After all, that's what made Nixon's China policy possible.
how long is too/very long? Because they are getting closer and closer in military cooperation and economic co-prosperity
Airstrip One
Completely Effed
They lasted less than a decade following Stalin's death. Things fell apart, and by the end of the decade, Chinese and Russian troops were shooting at each other on the border.
moon
Satire for Sanity
Yes- that's what it's for. The US- to a lesser extent the US/Allies- see the solution to their own insecurities as world domination. How they expect to achieve that without invoking the very holocausts they are frightened of is a matter for psychiatrists.
Living in the Past. China is a fully developed country that chooses it's own path, and Putin supplies the weapons/engineering while China provides the money
Russiaphobia