Is the Tory Party finished?

T

Tranquillus in Exile

New member
They've had a long run - over three centuries, a world record - but this could be the end.

In these EU bemused times no one can know for sure. What we do know is that over 60% of Tory supporters voted Leave in the 2016 referendum. A majority of Tory MPs, however, are Remainers who are apparently set on thwarting Brexit or turning it into Brexit In Name Only. If they succeed, the voters will not forget it. Tory supporters are likely to be turned off by the millions.

The question is, where will they go?
 
Tranquillus in Exile said:
They've had a long run - over three centuries, a world record - but this could be the end.

In these EU bemused times no one can know for sure. What we do know is that over 60% of Tory supporters voted Leave in the 2016 referendum. A majority of Tory MPs, however, are Remainers who are apparently set on thwarting Brexit or turning it into Brexit In Name Only. If they succeed, the voters will not forget it. Tory supporters are likely to be turned off by the millions.

The question is, where will they go?
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Where did all the Labour Party voters go when Bliar destroyed the party? Nowhere much, because without organisation all they can do is back protest-groups like the Liberals or the Brexiteer/Nazi lot, whatever they are called. Ordinary people have been disenfranchised by the careerists everywhere. It's the decline of the trade unions and small businesses that caused it mostly, them and religious belief..
 
iolo said:
Where did all the Labour Party voters go when Bliar destroyed the party? Nowhere much, because without organisation all they can do is back protest-groups like the Liberals or the Brexiteer/Nazi lot, whatever they are called. Ordinary people have been disenfranchised by the careerists everywhere. It's the decline of the trade unions and small businesses that caused it mostly, them and religious belief..
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Are you speaking of GB, the US, or both? This is definitely true for the U.S.
 
iolo said:
Where did all the Labour Party voters go when Bliar destroyed the party? Nowhere much, because without organisation all they can do is back protest-groups like the Liberals or the Brexiteer/Nazi lot, whatever they are called. Ordinary people have been disenfranchised by the careerists everywhere. It's the decline of the trade unions and small businesses that caused it mostly, them and religious belief..
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I don't care what the tea-drinkin dorks do!!!
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
Are you speaking of GB, the US, or both? This is definitely true for the U.S.
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I was thinking of here, mostly, but I see the connection. Here in this valley, the Miners' Union was about as strong as any union branch anywhere in the world, and the clergy, the teachers and everyone,was eagerly socialist - the only other organisation that counted after 1945 was Plaid Cymru, fighting for our language and culture. In tory areas it was the same yet different - the landowners tended in a snobbish de haut en bas sort of way to sort-of-care for their tenants, the shopkeepers and such, though little interested in politics, would turn out to work for 'em at election, and all the young men met girls in the Young Conservatives, though they had no interest in politics whatever. Community was important. When we lived in a tory seat in England and had a by-election, a delegation from the Labour Party called round to ask my father, an opposition figure of importance locally, if I'd stand for the Party (he failed to tell me!), knowing I could swing votes because local. Now it's all gone. People like Blair and Cameron make a career choice that has nothing to do with belief or community. It is profoundly depressing!
 
iolo said:
I was thinking of here, mostly, but I see the connection. Here in this valley, the Miners' Union was about as strong as any union branch anywhere in the world, and the clergy, the teachers and everyone,was eagerly socialist - the only other organisation that counted after 1945 was Plaid Cymru, fighting for our language and culture. In tory areas it was the same yet different - the landowners tended in a snobbish de haut en bas sort of way to sort-of-care for their tenants, the shopkeepers and such, though little interested in politics, would turn out to work for 'em at election, and all the young men met girls in the Young Conservatives, though they had no interest in politics whatever. Community was important. When we lived in a tory seat in England and had a by-election, a delegation from the Labour Party called round to ask my father, an opposition figure of importance locally, if I'd stand for the Party (he failed to tell me!), knowing I could swing votes because local. Now it's all gone. People like Blair and Cameron make a career choice that has nothing to do with belief or community. It is profoundly depressing!
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Thanks for a glimpse inside your political world. I know next to nothing about the nitty-gritty of Brit politics. It seems as though both of us are in decline.
 
ThatOwlWoman said:
Thanks for a glimpse inside your political world. I know next to nothing about the nitty-gritty of Brit politics. It seems as though both of us are in decline.
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I think that, when you look at what's been done to people's expectations, the Brexit vote isn't hard to understand. I suppose it is better than Trump immediately, but God knows what it will have mucked up in a few more years!
 
Some thoughts from the historian Robert Tombs:

We live in a “representative democracy” – or so we tell ourselves. But who or what is the present parliament representing? Not the majority of the country, as expressed in the 2016 referendum and the 2017 general election. Some two thirds of constituencies voted for Brexit – a vote that would give an unprecedented landslide majority in a parliamentary election - and yet most MPs still support Remain.
. . .

Our present parliament seems to be treading dangerously close, for the first time since the 1830s, to interpreting its “representative” function perversely as entitlement to reject a clearly expressed popular wish.
. . .

As far as I am aware, none of the legal luminaries on the Remain side have ever explained on what theory of law or politics they base their pretension to act as an oligarchy responsible only to themselves. Such a pretension could only be based on the assumption that politicians are wiser or better informed than their voters, but the Brexit debate has surely put paid to that idea.
. . .

The difference between Remainers and Leavers is to a large extent the difference between the Haves and the Have-Nots, shown more glaringly in today’s divisions than at any time since the 1950s. If that is what emerges from our present turmoil, this will indeed turn out to be the Rotten Parliament.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politic...ament-worst-had-since-democracy-haters-1830s/
 
Tranquillus in Exile said:
Some thoughts from the historian Robert Tombs:

We live in a “representative democracy” – or so we tell ourselves. But who or what is the present parliament representing? Not the majority of the country, as expressed in the 2016 referendum and the 2017 general election. Some two thirds of constituencies voted for Brexit – a vote that would give an unprecedented landslide majority in a parliamentary election - and yet most MPs still support Remain.
. . .

Our present parliament seems to be treading dangerously close, for the first time since the 1830s, to interpreting its “representative” function perversely as entitlement to reject a clearly expressed popular wish.
. . .

As far as I am aware, none of the legal luminaries on the Remain side have ever explained on what theory of law or politics they base their pretension to act as an oligarchy responsible only to themselves. Such a pretension could only be based on the assumption that politicians are wiser or better informed than their voters, but the Brexit debate has surely put paid to that idea.
. . .

The difference between Remainers and Leavers is to a large extent the difference between the Haves and the Have-Nots, shown more glaringly in today’s divisions than at any time since the 1950s. If that is what emerges from our present turmoil, this will indeed turn out to be the Rotten Parliament.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politic...ament-worst-had-since-democracy-haters-1830s/
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How do you 'represent' anger, spite and ignorance? There is no democracy if people are denied the facts to vote on, as well you know.
 
iolo said:
How do you 'represent' anger, spite and ignorance?
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From the Conservative Party Manifesto, 2017:

Following the historic referendum on 23rd June 2016, the United Kingdom is leaving the European Union.

https://s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/...Stronger+Britain+and+a+More+Prosperous....pdf


From the Labour Party Manifesto, 2017:

Labour accepts the referendum result and a Labour government will put the national interest first.

https://labour.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/labour-manifesto-2017.pdf


These are undertakings on which all Conservative and Labour MPs were elected less than two years ago.
 
iolo said:
I think that, when you look at what's been done to people's expectations, the Brexit vote isn't hard to understand. I suppose it is better than Trump immediately, but God knows what it will have mucked up in a few more years!
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Some of the same people who made Trump president were instrumental in the Brexit vote. It seems the wealthy across the globe have seen the power that division gives them. They pit the people against each other. Then the people are easier to control and elections are easier to purchase. Brexit has done a lot of dmage to the UK.
 
Nordberg said:
Some of the same people who made Trump president were instrumental in the Brexit vote.
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Could you cite some of those people and tell us what they did? I'm aware that Nigel Farage is an admirer of Trump - something I don't comprehend - but I don't know of any others.

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I found one in The Independent:


A US hedge-fund billionaire who helped finance Donald Trump's campaign to become US president reportedly played a key role in the campaign for Britain to leave the EU.

Robert Mercer, co-owner of right-wing news organisation Breitbart, allegedly directed his data-analytics firm Cambridge Analytica to provide expert advice to the Leave campaign.

Mr Mercer, whose firm was paid £4.8m by the Trump campaign to persuade swing voters, offered his firm's help to Ukip leader Nigel Farage for free, Leave.eu communications director Andy Wigmore told The Observer.

“They were happy to help. Because Nigel is a good friend of the Mercers," Mr Wigmore said.

The firm is said to have advised Leave.eu by harvesting data from people's Facebook profiles to decide how to target them with individualised advertisements.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...vertisement-cambridge-analytica-a7600041.html


Don't know how much there is to it.
 
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Tranquillus in Exile said:
From the Conservative Party Manifesto, 2017:

Following the historic referendum on 23rd June 2016, the United Kingdom is leaving the European Union.

https://s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/...Stronger+Britain+and+a+More+Prosperous....pdf


From the Labour Party Manifesto, 2017:

Labour accepts the referendum result and a Labour government will put the national interest first.

https://labour.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/labour-manifesto-2017.pdf


These are undertakings on which all Conservative and Labour MPs were elected less than two years ago.
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But how, matey, how? They could all shoot themselves, I suppose, but I doubt they will- just join the Halfwits' Chorus, honking!
 
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