Polling Shows That On Health Costs, ObamaCare Was A Massive Failure

[artichoke]

Don't you see how that's a non-sequitur? Here, maybe you'll spot your error if you just think it through a little more.

Says the person who can't grasp that skyrocketing costs only slightly less explosively skyrocketed once parts of Obamacare were dismantled.

The key question isn't how fast insurance premiums rise, but how fast healthcare costs rise, obviously. If all we wanted to do is lower the average insurance premium, we could automatically enroll everyone in an insurance policy that costs $10 per year and has as its only benefit the distribution of one free aspirin. That would be a terrible idea and would drive up healthcare costs, but it would drive down the average insurance premium. Obviously.

But...costs and insurance rates have continued exploding. And your entire counterpoint is that they exploded slightly less terribly once parts of Obamacare were dismantled...therefore, obviously, Obamacare lowered costs. You should cut back on the use of the word "obviously." You don't seem to know what it means.

Where do you get that figure?

From non-partisan Kaiser. There was such an "uninsured crisis" that almost everyone liked the existing system as it was.

http://www.dc-aapor.org/documents/DEANE_DC_AAPOR_8_18.pdf

 

[montgomery]

"American way nonsense" meaning not dying on waiting lists, following the Constitution and not being illegally enslaved to the nanny state, and not paying far more for garbage care while pretending it's cheap by hiding its devastating costs among a myriad of other taxes.

Proof That Those International Health Care Comparisons Are Bogus

Britain's NHS Cancels 50,000 Surgeries Amid Long Waits For Care, 'Third World' Conditions

Anything else you'd care to lie about? Or are you good for now?





Says the guy embarrassing himself at every turn being comically stupid and provably wrong.

The big insurance companies will say and do anything to save their profit scheme, but when the ordinary people like you start carrying water for them, it just gets too pathetic for words. Yes, the WHO are lying and all the leading countries in health care are lying. It's a commie plot that Americans have finally uncovered!

 

[LV426]

Dispelling Obamacare Cost Saving Myths: Obamacare did "little to nothing" about costs

The rate of premium increases pre-ACA was higher than post-ACA.

Health Premiums Have Climbed $4,865 Since Obama Promised to Cut Them $2,500

So this is a deceptive lie.

Obama didn't say health premiums would decrease. What he said was the out-of-pocket expenses to families would decrease by and average amount of $2,500 because of the subsidies. And there's a very famous case of that in Julie Boonstra. Do you remember her? You should because she's the fat, ugly, diseased GOP sow who starred in a Koch-bros produced at in 2012 saying that her health insurance costs increased because of Obamacare. What actually happened was that because she qualified for subsidies, her out-of-pocket costs were reduced by $2,400...and that was confirmed by her insurance company. When confronted with that, what was her response? "I choose to not believe that". You are following suit there.

And no, hiding the obscene costs of garbage socialist health care by grouping it with taxes, and by letting people die on waiting lists, does not make anything "cheaper." It's literally just hiding how much more you're paying for so much less. And bargaining for cheaper drugs does not require a socialist system. Do you ever tell the truth?

No one has been put on waiting lists, and Medicare has the 2nd-highest patient satisfaction of any insurance plan, with VA care being the highest according to Gallup surveys of that very thing:

Americans With Government Health Plans Most Satisfied
NOVEMBER 6, 2015
Americans' satisfaction with the way the healthcare system works for them varies by the type of insurance they have. Satisfaction is highest among those with veterans or military health insurance, Medicare and Medicaid, and is lower among those with employer-paid and self-paid insurance. Americans with no health insurance are least satisfied of all.
https://news.gallup.com/poll/186527/americans-government-health-plans-satisfied.aspx

And you're right in that we don't need socialized medicine to bargain for cheaper prescription drugs, so why are Republicans refusing to allow Medicare to specifically do just that? Why doesn't Medicare use its leverage to negotiate for cheaper drugs? BECAUSE OF MEDICARE PART-D THAT CONSERVATIVES PASSED AND SUPPORTED THAT BUSH SIGNED INTO LAW.

You remember Bush, right? He was the president you supported before you got struck with a curious case of amnesia in 2009 that caused you to staple teabags to your face. It was HIS Medicare Part-D legislation that prohibited Medicare from using its leverage to bargain for cheaper drugs. So why did Conservatives do that, anyway? You're the ones who conceived the law and passed it. So what gives?

 

[LV426]

Which might make sense if health care costs weren't low before government got involved. And they do have large medical bills...it's called more than half their income they pay in taxes for such inferior care.

They weren't low before government got involved, idiot. The fact that health care costs were so expensive was precisely why Medicare was created.

What a fucking idiot.

 

[Oneuli]

Says the person who can't grasp that skyrocketing costs only slightly less explosively skyrocketed once parts of Obamacare were dismantled.

What data source, in particular, are you relying on to support that claim?

And your entire counterpoint is that they exploded slightly less terribly once parts of Obamacare were dismantled

No, that's YOUR spin. As you're perfectly well aware, I never said anything of the sort.

You should cut back on the use of the word "obviously."

No. I find it helpful to alert people to when they're being idiotic. I only say it when I'm stating something that's so obvious that I almost feel like I'm insulting the intelligence of the other person to spell out something so self-evident.

There was such an "uninsured crisis" that almost everyone liked the existing system as it was.

As a reminder, here was your claim: 'More than 80% of Americans were happy with the existing system before Democrats invented an "uninsured crisis" out of thin air.' Which part of your link do you think supports that claim?

Anyway, as you can see in your link, 57% of Republicans, 67% of independents, and 82% of Democrats thought the healthcare system needed a complete overhaul or at least major changes. If the majority were happy with the existing system, why did they want it completely overhauled or changed in major ways?

 

[zappasguitar]

Well yeah. Saying provably false things tends to provoke such "whining" about your lying. That's how that works. Welcome to adulthood.

Newsflash: Repeating what someone said, then adding, "Huh uh!" and calling them names isn't a counterpoint. It's a grade school temper tantrum. Go lay down and let the adults speak. Typical Democrat stupidity.

Ahhh well, I tried.

I thought since you were new here you might be a bit more honest than the batch of GOP shills who call JPP home, but it's clear you have no interest in honest discussion.

Just in the same stubborn refusal to accept reality.

 

[Truth Detector]

The rate of premium increases pre-ACA was higher than post-ACA.

Did Democrats claim that Obamacare would prevent costs from going up as fast as they could have without it?

You are one of the most dishonest, ignorant dumb fucks on the forum.

 

[artichoke]

The big insurance companies will say and do anything to save their profit scheme, but when the ordinary people like you start carrying water for them, it just gets too pathetic for words.

As Democrats will say anything to protect their power, but when the ordinary people like you start carrying water for them, it just gets too pathetic for words. See how your crappy fallacy-based logic works both ways?

Yes, the WHO are lying and all the leading countries in health care are lying.

Which might make sense if your argument didn't require that even partisan liberal "fact-checker" Politifact was lying when it listed Obama's hilariously false "it will reduce costs" lie as one of his more than a hundred straight-up broken promises.

It's a commie plot that Americans have finally uncovered!

Well, we do have openly communist Obama appointees on the record admitting that single-payer was the goal from the beginning. Hilarious how what you think sounds conspiratorial is already actually a matter of record...because that's just how obscenely corrupt, tyrannical and extreme Obama was.

 

[artichoke]

The rate of premium increases pre-ACA was higher than post-ACA.

Translation: Spending more than a trillion dollars to illegally take over and destroy a system that more than 80% of Americans were happy with (based on a 100% invented crisis) isn't a catastrophe because insurance rates doubled and tripled at a barely noticeable but still slightly less astronomical pace...THAT'S worth national bankruptcy.

As usual, nice logic.

Obama didn't say health premiums would decrease...

FLASHBACK: Obama Says Obamacare Will Decrease Premiums by 3000 Percent

No one has been put on waiting lists

Except for everyone in socialist health care systems or at the VA...the kind of systems liberals are trying to impose. Duh.

Medicare has the 2nd-highest patient satisfaction of any insurance plan

Which is had before. And Medicare Advantage being taken away actually hurt its popularity. Next lie please.

With VA care being the highest according to Gallup surveys of that very thing...

Kind of hard to poll the dead, genius. LOL

IG Report: 300,000 Veterans Died While Waiting for Health Care at VA

And you're right in that we don't need socialized medicine to bargain for cheaper prescription drugs, so why are Republicans refusing to allow Medicare to specifically do just that?

They aren't. As usual, you're just comically misinformed.

The Trump Plan To Reduce Prescription Drug Prices Will Have A Major Impact

You remember Bush, right? He was the president you supported before you got struck with a curious case of amnesia in 2009 that caused you to staple teabags to your face.

Says the PMSing douche in a vagina hat.

It was HIS Medicare Part-D legislation that prohibited Medicare from using its leverage to bargain for cheaper drugs. So why did Conservatives do that, anyway? You're the ones who conceived the law and passed it. So what gives?

Bush does not = conservatives on a great deal of things, including this. But my understanding was that the hundreds of millions of dollars that go into paying people to research and develop a drug for years have to be compensated in order for it to still be profitable to research and develop drugs, which is why they are always so expensive in the short run to begin with.

 

[Getin the ring]

The rate of premium increases pre-ACA was higher than post-ACA.





Obama didn't say health premiums would decrease. What he said was the out-of-pocket expenses to families would decrease by and average amount of $2,500 because of the subsidies.

were you laughing when you typed this ^^^^
cause we were when we read it

and what subsidies, I didn't get any subsidies, where's my subsidy,
and my health care costs went up, way up. So if I missed something please inform

Obama lied, you know he lied I know he lied we know he lied
let's use that for a starter to the conversation,
now what?

 

[artichoke]

They weren't low before government got involved, idiot. The fact that health care costs were so expensive was precisely why Medicare was created.

What a fucking idiot.

Says the guy who has utterly humiliated and discredited himself on nearly every single argument he has made in this thread.

Oh, and by the way, you're provably wrong about this too. Health care costs never skyrocketed until after 1910, when the Federal Government started regulating them...just like college tuition (ever notice how everything the nanny state does makes everything ten times worse?). Do you ever think or research beyond what biased left-wing media outlets spoon-feed you? LOL

How the Government Ruined US Healthcare

Why Health Care Costs Exploded After World War II

How Government Regulations Made Healthcare So Expensive

Got anything else you'd care to lie about, or are you just going to rely on mindlessly spewing more triggered hate to get you past all the things you've been wrong about thus far (speaking of 'what a fucking idiot')? LMAO

 

[artichoke]

What data source, in particular, are you relying on to support that claim?

The timeline. Look it up. This is probably one of the few things that's pretty safe to research on Wikipedia.

As a reminder, here was your claim: 'More than 80% of Americans were happy with the existing system before Democrats invented an "uninsured crisis" out of thin air.' Which part of your link do you think supports that claim?

Um...the first page. Screenshot:

Anyway, as you can see in your link, 57% of Republicans, 67% of independents, and 82% of Democrats thought the healthcare system needed a complete overhaul or at least major changes. If the majority were happy with the existing system, why did they want it completely overhauled or changed in major ways?

This was after Democrats had spent a year straight lying to the American people about how there was this "uninsured crisis," in which they pretended that illegal immigrants not having insurance under a system they aren't even supposed to be here to participate in counts as "uninsured Americans," as well as fraudulently counting young people who didn't want insurance and rich people who didn't need it. That's how you end up with nearly the entire country being happy with the system but simultaneously believing it needed to be overhauled.

 

[rjhenn]

The same people who spent 8 years straight under Obama blaming his endless economic failures on his predecessors (based on provable falsehoods), and who now hilariously try to take credit for President Trump's successes (without being able to name a single thing Obama did that didn't destroy jobs, and with every job-creator specifically citing which Trump policies caused them to start hiring again), are also now insisting that Obama's trillion-dollar health care train wreck (which created over a hundred new federal bureaucracies and utterly hijacked the system that actually worked) not being cleaned up quickly enough by the Republicans who screamed from the rooftops for more than a year straight that all of this was going to happen...makes it their fault that Democrats illegally took over and destroyed the system that over 80% of Americans were happy with.

You're right. We'll try to work faster to clean up your policy disaster. How dare we take too long?

Nice logic. [emoji23]

As usual, everything we hear from the right is lies.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

[blackascoal]

Every single thing we were told about Obama's illegal, trillion-dollar health care takeover was a lie.

On Health Costs, ObamaCare Was A Massive Failure

The tables have turned on health care in 2018

CNN)No policy decision during former President Barack Obama's first two years contributed more to the Democratic loss of the House of Representatives in 2010 than the party's drive to pass the Affordable Care Act.

Now, no policy decision in President Trump's first two years is boosting Democratic hopes of recapturing the House majority more than the failed Republican effort to repeal the ACA.

The backlash against the GOP attempt to rescind the ACA represents a stunning shift in the politics of health care. Signed into law by Obama in early 2010, the ACA expanded health coverage to roughly 20 million previously uninsured Americans and imposed comprehensive changes in the operation of insurance markets -- all in the direction of requiring greater sharing of risk between the healthy and sick and balancing an individual requirement to obtain health insurance with a guarantee that coverage would be available.

After confidently attacking the law in four consecutive elections, Republicans for the first time this year are playing defense. They are especially struggling to defend the provisions in the House-passed repeal bill, and a separate lawsuit by attorneys general and governors from 20 Republican states, to unravel the law's requirement that insurers provide coverage, with no surcharge, to patients with preexisting health conditions. Over half of all Democratic ads in House and Senate races over roughly the past month have dealt with some aspect of the health care debate, far more than in the past, according to ad tracking by the Wesleyan Media Project. "Health care is the defining issue of the election," Jesse Ferguson, a Democratic strategist who is consulting for several liberal groups on the issue, including Protect Our Care, says flatly.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/10/23/politics/election-2018-health-care-aca/index.html

ACA more popular than ever, new poll shows
https://www.benefitspro.com/2018/03...-ever-new-poll-shows/?slreturn=20181107002155

The ACA requires the necessary tweaking and modifications that it has always been known to require .. and had republicans not stood in the way of those necessary changes, it would be a better bill today.

Irrespective of you what think about costs, this nation will have an improved Obamacare, or Medicare for All. .. and Socialist Security. :0)

 

[rjhenn]

Which is way worse than virtually everyone else has done...hence my point (duh)...and they had to openly cheat to get that terrible result. Don't worry, you'll comprehend that doing worse than everyone else is not something to brag about eventually.

[emoji23]

Captain Lithium Imbalance strikes again!

Typical grade school temper tantrum.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

[rjhenn]

As Democrats will say anything to protect their power, but when the ordinary people like you start carrying water for them, it just gets too pathetic for words. See how your crappy fallacy-based logic works both ways? [emoji23]





Which might make sense if your argument didn't require that even partisan liberal "fact-checker" Politifact was lying when it listed Obama's hilariously false "it will reduce costs" lie as one of his more than a hundred straight-up broken promises.



Well, we do have openly communist Obama appointees on the record admitting that single-payer was the goal from the beginning. Hilarious how what you think sounds conspiratorial is already actually a matter of record...because that's just how obscenely corrupt, tyrannical and extreme Obama was.

As Democrats will say anything to protect their power, but when the ordinary people like you start carrying water for them, it just gets too pathetic for words. See how your crappy fallacy-based logic works both ways? [emoji23]





Which might make sense if your argument didn't require that even partisan liberal "fact-checker" Politifact was lying when it listed Obama's hilariously false "it will reduce costs" lie as one of his more than a hundred straight-up broken promises.



Well, we do have openly communist Obama appointees on the record admitting that single-payer was the goal from the beginning. Hilarious how what you think sounds conspiratorial is already actually a matter of record...because that's just how obscenely corrupt, tyrannical and extreme Obama was.

So many lies and delusions. First off, single payer is not "communist". And what's really pathetic is how deep you are in the right-wing world of delusion, so deep that you don't seem to have much contact with reality. And the usual delusions about "how obscenely corrupt, tyrannical and extreme Obama was".

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

[artichoke]

As usual, everything we hear from the right is lies.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

Translation: I called it a lie. And that makes it a lie. And I know it's a lie because I told me.

 

[artichoke]

The tables have turned on health care in 2018

CNN....

The most utterly humiliated and discredited name in news is your source.

CNN is literally watched less than Spongebob at this point because it constantly reports fake news as hard fact, still mindlessly worships Obama at every turn while being openly hostile to anyone who doesn't despise Trump, encourages fascist political violence against conservative dissent, puts Democrat spin on every news story, lies to hurt conservative judges, constantly gets caught lying to hurt President Trump, stages phony news events to advance Constitution-shredding Democrat policies, pushes hysterical extremist DNC talking points instead of practicing actual journalism, and even their own people condemn them as partisan propaganda.

No policy decision during former President Barack Obama's first two years contributed more to the Democratic loss of the House of Representatives in 2010 than the party's drive to pass the Affordable Care Act.

Now, no policy decision in President Trump's first two years is boosting Democratic hopes of recapturing the House majority more than the failed Republican effort to repeal the ACA.

Nobody ever argued that the sleazy scam that Obama's illegal, trillion-dollar health care takeover was built on wasn't luring people into nanny state dependence (at the expense of health care, fiscal sanity, basic rights and liberties, etc). That WAS the argument against it, early and often. Duh.

ACA more popular...

This was known and talked about (and part of the age-old 'screw everything and everyone for Democrat power' strategy of the left) from the beginning. People don't want to take perceived benefits away, even when they watched with their own eyes as the system that more than 80% of Americans were happy with was obliterated by said "benefits" over a fake crisis.

Obamacare opponents (sane people) have always acknowledged that Democrats are skillful demagogues and scam-artists. This is nothing new.

The ACA requires the necessary tweaking...

More than a trillion dollars to shred the Constitution, further bankrupt the country, and make everything worse for health care? "Requires the necessary tweaking" is the understatement of the century.

...this nation will have an improved Obamacare...

It would be difficult for it to get any worse.

 

[artichoke]

So many lies and delusions. First off, single payer is not "communist".

The left's literacy issues strike again. Let me spell this out for you in crayon...

Montgomery facetiously stated: "It's a commie plot that Americans have finally uncovered!"

To which I responded: "Well, we do have openly communist Obama appointees on the record admitting that single-payer was the goal from the beginning."

...that is not either of us claiming that single-payer is communist, idiot. Try comprehending what you read.

And what's really pathetic is how deep you are in the right-wing world of delusion...

Says the guy who just proved he can't comprehend plain English or follow a basic conversation.

And the usual delusions about "how obscenely corrupt, tyrannical and extreme Obama was".

"Delusions" being liberal-speak for "well-documented, common knowledge, and easily proven." LOL

Try again there, Brainiac.

 

[Oneuli]

The timeline. Look it up.

I did. You appear to be wrong. Which data were you using, particularly?

the first page

Nothing on the first page supports your statement. Which statement are you misreading that way, specifically? Did you misread it as a measure of what Americans in general thought about the system as a whole, as opposed to what those who had healthcare coverage thought about their own coverage?

This was after Democrats had spent a year straight lying to the American people about how there was this "uninsured crisis,"

What lie, in particular, do you think Democrats told? Do you have evidence that the numbers would have been different earlier?