You do realize he has gone full fascist in his speeches

noise said:
absolutely not.
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Absolutely yes. Your entire defense of this thing hinges on faith.

The faith that raising Mexican wages to a level that is still below that of US wages, will create jobs in the US somehow...how? You don't know and can't say. You just have the faith that nominally raising wages will magically put pressure on wages here to go up, even though the Mexican wage is still much lower and creates zero incentive to reverse the flow of outsourcing labor.

You put so much of your argument into faith. And you do that because the economics aren't there. So you have to make up for the gap with magical thinking and fantasy.

And really, that's pretty much what Conservatives now do; rely on faith to carry their positions and policies.
 
reagansghost said:
yo stupid, Fascism is a political ideology which includes Nationalism as one of its central tenets. You can’t be a Fascist and not also be a Nationalist.

Trump displays his love for Fascism at every rally by calling for violence against his perceived enemies including the Press, also yells "America 1st" at every opportunity - pure Nationalism

but as a cult of personality member you can't comprehend any of that, got it
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So fascist equals nationalism?

Yes or no.
 
noise said:
When looked at all together there are more NAFTA zone parts used. Wages are higher for Mexican,but also there is less outsourcing to Mexico. win/win/win
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Wages are higher for Mexico, but the cost is still well below the US.

So you tell me where the labor will be employed if one worker gets $16/hr and the other gets $24/hr.
 
LV426 said:
Absolutely yes. Your entire defense of this thing hinges on faith.

The faith that raising Mexican wages to a level that is still below that of US wages, will create jobs in the US somehow...how? You don't know and can't say. You just have the faith that nominally raising wages will magically put pressure on wages here to go up, even though the Mexican wage is still much lower and creates zero incentive to reverse the flow of outsourcing labor.

You put so much of your argument into faith. And you do that because the economics aren't there. So you have to make up for the gap with magical thinking and fantasy.

And really, that's pretty much what Conservatives now do; rely on faith to carry their positions and policies.
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The only way this could possibly create a difference, is to couple it with the Red State actions to destroy unions. Most southern states are becoming 'right to work' shops. Recent right wing court decisions have ruled in favor of employees in a union shop to enjoy union benefits, without paying dues.

In the auto sector, the wages are still at, or a little higher in non union shops than the arbitrary $16/hr.

The NAFTA deal with Mexico was aimed at sending them some of our manufacturing, in exchange for the U.S destroying their corn industry via minimum import demands for our corn. I can't seem to find the language regarding corn exports in this new deal, as the internet only seems to address the auto issue.
 
Yurty said:
So fascist equals nationalism?

Yes or no.
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Fascism is conservative.

Fascism, a term once common in Italian trade unionism, was adopted during World War I by Benito Mussolini for his nationalistic and totalitarian political movement, which came to power in Italy between 1922 and 1943.

Sceptics have used the term widely to refer to other far-right and Third Positionist nationalist governments, such as Francisco Franco's rule in Spain between 1939 and 1975. Prior to World War II there were successful and unsuccessful fascist movements in other European countries, including the UK.
 
If there is, somehow, a benign element of nationalism, it hasn't manifested itself in America.

Whether nationalism equals fascism or not, there's absolutely no doubt that American nationalists are pretty much all fascists.
 
reagansghost said:
He now openly calls himself a Nationalist.

His policies will soon catch up if he can maintain his one party rule. We now have no court protection basically forever.

We have, in fact, seen this movie and several remakes.

1930s Spain
1930s Italy
1930s Germany
1940s Argentina
1970s Chile

This shit's gettin' pretty fucking real
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A NATIONALIST DOES NOT MAKE A FASCIST....A nationalist is someone who simply demands the needs of his/her nation come first, before the wants of other nations, just as Trump's mission statement declares, MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN, AMERICA FIRST.

If you want a national SOCIALIST that demanded the STATE (as in the central government) control everything from the banks, the economy, firearms, property, education, healthcare.....look to the SOCIALIST NAZI PARTY of Hitler's generation.

Look at the quint essential literal definition of SOCAILISM and FASCISM.....compare the 2.

SOCIALISM: A political system advocating state ownership of industry. Now just what POTUS took control of the automobile industry and fired the GM at General Motors? BHO and then he used tax payer guaranteed monies to secure a private industry UNION (the UAW)….


FASCISM: A political theory advocating an authoritarian hierarchical government.


HIERACHAL: Promoting "one class" above another. (now: Which party advocates that the elite leftist control everything, which party always wants to segregate and separate depending upon, gender (supposed war on women, women must be believed...yada, yada, yada), race (look at the race baiting industry promoted by rich elites like Jackson, Sharpton, and media outlets like NBC and CNN)….which party pits male against female, blacks against whites, north against sought, which party can't win when all the people come together as NATIONAISTS/PATRIOTS? That's obvious....the party that must attempt to use propaganda to revise history. ;)
 
NiftyNiblick said:
If there is, somehow, a benign element of nationalism, it hasn't manifested itself in America.

Whether nationalism equals fascism or not, there's absolutely no doubt that American nationalists are pretty much all fascists.
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horseshit.
Nationalism is not joining a far scattered TPP where dispute mechanisms include suing countries.

Instead we got a new NAFTA,and now were going to go after the biggest hegemon in the world -China

And we're going to do it pursuing a nationalist agenda
 
LV426 said:
Wages are higher for Mexico, but the cost is still well below the US.

So you tell me where the labor will be employed if one worker gets $16/hr and the other gets $24/hr.
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The difference is narrowing the wage gap mean less out sourcing and more decision making about auto assembly factoring other concepts the just the default "cheap Mexican labor" that has already driven much of the outsourcing
 
anatta said:
horseshit.
Nationalism is not joining a far scattered TPP where dispute mechanisms include suing countries.

Instead we got a new NAFTA,and now were going to go after the biggest hegemon in the world -China

And we're going to do it pursuing a nationalist agenda
Click to expand...

its a racist tag word asshole


ONLY racists deny that
 
LV426 said:
No, it adds no value. You didn't say how it adds value, just that it does. Well, I'm not accommodating what you think as a legitimate position. So know your shit before half-assing it on threads like these.
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stupid. you are arguing better quality control doesn't add value to auto parts.
 
evince said:
its a racist tag word asshole
ONLY racists deny that
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fuck off with that PC revisionism..
Nationalism is simply saying an approach to affairs with a prime viewpoint of "America first" is superior to globalism in terms of advocating US interests
 
LV426 said:
No, it's not increased just because you say so.

The economics aren't there for any job increase. Upping the % of a car made in NA by just 12.5% isn't going to spur all new manufacturing jobs. All it's going to do is maintain the status quo, which is an incremental decline in auto manufacturing employment, as we've seen over the last 2 decades.

You seem to think magic and wishing and prayer and faith are what will carry the economics here. That's just naive.




You're just avoiding the issue because you cannot reconcile your ludicrous support for what Trump did to NAFTA, and your equally ludicrous belief that it will create a single job. It won't. Jobs in the auto sector are being lost every day to robots. What took 100 line workers 20 years ago to build, is accomplished by 2 workers operating several dozen robots. And in due time, those robots won't even need the human workers to operate them, AI will take over.

It's stupid to think nominally increasing wages for Mexican workers, while nominally increasing the amount a car is built in North America, will create jobs. Only a cult member in the Cult of Trump would believe such stupidity.
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it means using 75% NAFTA content increases NAFTA manufacturing parts jobs. First off you are not buying Chinese instead simply on costs
I've gone all over this 50x with you. You are advocating not improving NAFTA now because of jobs in the future.

NAFTA content rules mean more US/North American parts.
Higher wages for Mexican workers help build a Mexican middle class,and reduce US outsourcing to Mexico.

I remind you NAFTA took 10 months of negotiations,and then direct talks with Mexico.
You seem to think this isn't important to the US and Mexico -and Canada too- but the intense negotiations belie that fallacy
 
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