Old White Guys

[Ross Dolan]

"he (Paul) feels he has the right to command Philemon to free Onesimus,"

From your own quote above, ... clearly Paul is against slavery.

HE DIDN'T, THOUGH!

And Paul says:

"All under the yoke of slavery must regard their masters as worthy of full respect...Those slaves whose masters are brothers in the faith must not take liberties with them on that account. they must perform their tasks even more faithfully, since those who will profit from their work are believers and beloved brothers." 1 Timothy 6:1ff


"To slaves I say, obey your human masters perfectly, not with the purpose of attracting attention and pleasing men, but in all sincerity and our of reverence for the Lord." Colossians 3:22


"You slave owners, deal justly and fairly with your slaves..." Colossians 4:1




"Slaves are to be submissive to their masters. They should try to please them in every way, not contradicting them nor stealing from them, but expressing a constant fidelity by their conduct, so as to adorn in every way possible the doctrine of God our Savior." Titus 2:9



"The general rule is that each one should lead the life the Lord has assigned him, continuing as he was when the Lord called him...Were you a slave when your call came? Give it no thought. Even supposing you could go free, you would be better off making the most of your slavery...." 1 Corinthians 7:17ff


Nowhere does he even hint: "Stop with the goddam slavery...it is wrong." If he actually was "clearly against slavery"...HE WOULD HAVE SAID SO.


Paul's god says there is nothing wrong with owning and selling slaves.

Stop with the nonsense here, Dog.

 

[Ross Dolan]

The Bible says there shall be masters and servants, right??

Here is one thing the Bible says:

"Slaves, male and female, you may indeed possess, provided you BUY them from among the neighboring nations. You may also BUY them from among the aliens who reside with you and from their children who are born and reared in your land. Such slaves YOU MAY OWN AS CHATTELS, and leave to your sons as their hereditary property, MAKING THEM PERPETUAL SLAVES. But you shall not lord it harshly over any of the Israelites, your kinsmen." Leviticus 25:44ff

That comes directly from the horse's mouth, so to speak.

 

[Bigdog]

HE DIDN'T, THOUGH!

And Paul says:

"All under the yoke of slavery must regard their masters as worthy of full respect...Those slaves whose masters are brothers in the faith must not take liberties with them on that account. they must perform their tasks even more faithfully, since those who will profit from their work are believers and beloved brothers." 1 Timothy 6:1ff


"To slaves I say, obey your human masters perfectly, not with the purpose of attracting attention and pleasing men, but in all sincerity and our of reverence for the Lord." Colossians 3:22


"You slave owners, deal justly and fairly with your slaves..." Colossians 4:1




"Slaves are to be submissive to their masters. They should try to please them in every way, not contradicting them nor stealing from them, but expressing a constant fidelity by their conduct, so as to adorn in every way possible the doctrine of God our Savior." Titus 2:9



"The general rule is that each one should lead the life the Lord has assigned him, continuing as he was when the Lord called him...Were you a slave when your call came? Give it no thought. Even supposing you could go free, you would be better off making the most of your slavery...." 1 Corinthians 7:17ff


Nowhere does he even hint: "Stop with the goddam slavery...it is wrong." If he actually was "clearly against slavery"...HE WOULD HAVE SAID SO.


Paul's god says there is nothing wrong with owning and selling slaves.

Stop with the nonsense here, Dog.

I'm sure your familiar with the "Give unto Caesar" story. It is a good example of how Jesus had to exercise extreme caution in the words he used ... in order to Not defy the Roman gov't or the Jewish gov't. And so too, Paul had to choose his words carefully.

Paul's suggestions that slaves be obedient and submissive was great advice. Which changed the thinking of those that owned them. Their owners grew to love and respect them, and they started the movement to end the gov't's socialist, pro slavery stance ... rooted in the "King's" ownership of his subjects.

There aren't a lot of "slave revolts" that end in victory. The only one that comes to mind is Exodus.

And I'm not the one playing games, Frank. YOU posted THAT quote.

"he (Paul) feels he has the right to command Philemon to free Onesimus,"

 

[Bigdog]

Here is one thing the Bible says:

"Slaves, male and female, you may indeed possess, provided you BUY them from among the neighboring nations. You may also BUY them from among the aliens who reside with you and from their children who are born and reared in your land. Such slaves YOU MAY OWN AS CHATTELS, and leave to your sons as their hereditary property, MAKING THEM PERPETUAL SLAVES. But you shall not lord it harshly over any of the Israelites, your kinsmen." Leviticus 25:44ff

That comes directly from the horse's mouth, so to speak.

Leviticus also COMMANDS that the punishment for some offenses be STONING. Why don't the Jews still STONE people to death like the Muslims do?

I'm sure you're familiar with Jesus's "throw the first stone" story. Where he carefully chooses his words to couch his contempt for that leviticus law.

 

[Bourbon]

The people who founded this nation.

The only class of people today whom it is okay to be racist and sexist and ageist against.

 

[blackascoal]

Here is one thing the Bible says:

"Slaves, male and female, you may indeed possess, provided you BUY them from among the neighboring nations. You may also BUY them from among the aliens who reside with you and from their children who are born and reared in your land. Such slaves YOU MAY OWN AS CHATTELS, and leave to your sons as their hereditary property, MAKING THEM PERPETUAL SLAVES. But you shall not lord it harshly over any of the Israelites, your kinsmen." Leviticus 25:44ff

That comes directly from the horse's mouth, so to speak.

I've cited that insanity about a 1000 times .. and NO Christian has an intelligent answer.

 

[Ross Dolan]

I'm sure your familiar with the "Give unto Caesar" story. It is a good example of how Jesus had to exercise extreme caution in the words he used ... in order to Not defy the Roman gov't or the Jewish gov't. And so too, Paul had to choose his words carefully.

Paul's suggestions that slaves be obedient and submissive was great advice. Which changed the thinking of those that owned them. Their owners grew to love and respect them, and they started the movement to end the gov't's socialist, pro slavery stance ... rooted in the "King's" ownership of his subjects.

Dog...you're just pulling our legs...I know it now.

The slave owners of the American south just loved and respected their slaves.

And all the while, I was thinking you were being serious.

There aren't a lot of "slave revolts" that end in victory. The only one that comes to mind is Exodus.

The story in Exodus of "slaves" escaping from Egypt...makes much more sense if it is told as a group of people being expelled from Egypt. It almost certainly was not a "slave revolt."

And I'm not the one playing games, Frank. YOU posted THAT quote.

Now I understand why you think the fact that Paul felt he had the right to order Philemon to free Onesimus BUT DIDN'T means that Paul felt there was something wrong with slavery.

You've been pulling my leg...and you got me. I actually thought you were being serious...even though I was pretty sure you were not that stupid...and were probably kidding.

 

[Ross Dolan]

Leviticus also COMMANDS that the punishment for some offenses be STONING. Why don't the Jews still STONE people to death like the Muslims do?

Beats me. I suspect they realize that the god of their holy book is a fraud.

Why do you think it?

I'm sure you're familiar with Jesus's "throw the first stone" story. Where he carefully chooses his words to couch his contempt for that leviticus law.

Yeah...he does. And he went out of his way to assure everyone that he was not "here" to change the law...not one word of the law...not one letter of the law...not one stroke of one letter of the law.

So...in your estimation...was Jesus a hypocrite or a liar?

 

[Ross Dolan]

I've cited that insanity about a 1000 times .. and NO Christian has an intelligent answer.

There is NO INTELLIGENT OR REASONABLE ANSWER to it, B.

That is why people like Dog do the song and dance he is doing.

 

[Bigdog]

Beats me. I suspect they realize that the god of their holy book is a fraud.

Why do you think it?



Yeah...he does. And he went out of his way to assure everyone that he was not "here" to change the law...not one word of the law...not one letter of the law...not one stroke of one letter of the law.

So...in your estimation...was Jesus a hypocrite or a liar?

Jesus chose his words carefully because he did not want to be arrested for blasphemy by the Jewish gov't. Clearly, Jesus was against the stoning laws.

"Fulfill the law"? ... If I told you to go "fulfill" the law, what would you do? .. specifically.?

 

[Ross Dolan]

Jesus chose his words carefully because he did not want to be arrested for blasphemy by the Jewish gov't. Clearly, Jesus was against the stoning laws.

"Fulfill the law"? ... If I told you to go "fulfill" the law, what would you do? .. specifically.?

Jesus NEVER SPOKE OUT ONE WORD to recommend the end of slavery.

NOT ONE WORD.

Paul NEVER SPOKE OUT ONE WORD to recommend the end of slavery.

NOT ONE WORD.

The god of the Bible told everyone that slavery was just fine with him!

Just fine.

Get over it, Dog.

 

[Bourbon]

[h=1]White fear elected Trump: Political scientist Diana Mutz on the "status threat" hypothesis[/h]
"Economic anxiety" had nothing to do with the 2016 election, study finds. White people felt they were under threat


Bad ideas have a life all their own. Speaking last Saturday at a rally in Washington Township, Michigan, Donald Trump was in rare form. He worked his audience into a fever pitch with threats to shut down the government and punish the Democrats and his other enemies. He spread more irrational fear about a "caravan" of "illegal immigrants" who will somehow "invade" America. He grossly exaggerated his policy successes, which is nothing new, and in ominous tones targeted "Hispanics" in one of his tirades, to which his almost uniformly white audience responded with a mix of boos and disdainful silence.

Despite the news media's obsession with the "white working class" and its purported "economic anxiety," that did not seem to be the prime motivating factor for Trump's supporters at this rally. The median household income in Washington Township is almost $80,000 a year; average household income there is more than $100,000. Both amounts are higher than the respective national averages. Like most Trump voters, those attending his rally were motivated by other factors, which hardly need to be spelled out.

The evidence that racism, sexism and nativism motivated Trump's voters is overwhelming.

https://www.salon.com/2018/05/07/wh...t-diana-mutz-on-the-status-threat-hypothesis/

 

[Bigdog]

Jesus NEVER SPOKE OUT ONE WORD to recommend the end of slavery.

NOT ONE WORD.

Paul NEVER SPOKE OUT ONE WORD to recommend the end of slavery.

NOT ONE WORD.

The god of the Bible told everyone that slavery was just fine with him!

Just fine.

Get over it, Dog.

You don't understand that speaking out against the Jewish gov't or the Roman gov't would get you executed.

Inciting a slave revolt is a guaranteed way to get yourself crucified by the Roman gov't.

 

[Ross Dolan]

You don't understand that speaking out against the Jewish gov't or the Roman gov't would get you executed.

Inciting a slave revolt is a guaranteed way to get yourself crucified by the Roman gov't.

I have posted a least a half dozen passages where either the god of the Bible (who did not have to worry about the Jewish government or the Roman one)...or St. Paul...indicated NO PROBLEM with slavery at all.

Not one word of condemnation.

You have posted ZERO passages where the god of the Bible or St. Paul CONDEMNED slavery.

Stop with the nonsense. You are too intelligent for that kind of crap. Just abandon the subject...because IT CANNOT BE DEFENDED.

 

[Bigdog]

I have posted a least a half dozen passages where either the god of the Bible (who did not have to worry about the Jewish government or the Roman one)...or St. Paul...indicated NO PROBLEM with slavery at all.

Not one word of condemnation.

You have posted ZERO passages where the god of the Bible or St. Paul CONDEMNED slavery.

Stop with the nonsense. You are too intelligent for that kind of crap. Just abandon the subject...because IT CANNOT BE DEFENDED.

Jesus doesn't directly condemn the STONING laws, either.

 

[Ross Dolan]

Jesus doesn't directly condemn the STONING laws, either.

Jesus does not indicate in any way whatsoever that he has ANY problem with slavery.

Nothing.

That is why you are unable to quote anything from that Bible of yours that condemns slavery.

Your god actually tells the Hebrews...while they supposedly are escaping slavery...THAT IT IS OKAY FOR THEM TO OWN AND SELL SLAVES.

Why are you pursuing something like this where you have no argument on your side at all????????????????????????????

And there is an abundance of argument that YOUR god and its followers...SEE NOTHING WRONG WITH SLAVERY.

 

[Bigdog]

Jesus does not indicate in any way whatsoever that he has ANY problem with slavery.

Nothing.

That is why you are unable to quote anything from that Bible of yours that condemns slavery.

Your god actually tells the Hebrews...while they supposedly are escaping slavery...THAT IT IS OKAY FOR THEM TO OWN AND SELL SLAVES.

Why are you pursuing something like this where you have no argument on your side at all????????????????????????????

And there is an abundance of argument that YOUR god and its followers...SEE NOTHING WRONG WITH SLAVERY.

My argument has won out. Give up, Frankie.

White conservative Christians began and lead the abolitionist movement. And many of the Black civil rights leaders, like Reverend Dr. MLK, were and are Christian.

 

[Ross Dolan]

My argument has won out. Give up, Frankie.

White conservative Christians began and lead the abolitionist movement. And many of the Black civil rights leaders, like Reverend Dr. MLK, were and are Christian.

What a joke.

Tons of quotes from the Bible...including one from the god itself...that there is nothing wrong with slavery...that buying, selling, and owning other humans as slaves is completely okay with the god.

Not one single word from anyone questioning the morality of the question.

And you declare victory?

Wake the hell up!

 

[blackascoal]

My argument has won out. Give up, Frankie.

White conservative Christians began and lead the abolitionist movement. And many of the Black civil rights leaders, like Reverend Dr. MLK, were and are Christian.

Wrong again. The abolitionist movement was led by Quakers. If you need me to provide you with that knowledge, no problem.

White conservative Christians were also slavers .. in fact, so was most of the South while it engaged in the horrors of slavery.

Frank Apisa is absolutely on point about the bible .. which often reads like a horror story.

Your argument fails.

 

[Bigdog]

What a joke.

Tons of quotes from the Bible...including one from the god itself...that there is nothing wrong with slavery...that buying, selling, and owning other humans as slaves is completely okay with the god.

Not one single word from anyone questioning the morality of the question.

And you declare victory?

Wake the hell up!

All you do is demonstrate over and over again, ... just how much you hate the Jews .. by citing leviticus over and over again.

For Christians, the NT trumps the OT. You Leftists are obsessed with attacking the Torah. You've lost this argument.