A Civil Discussion: Evolution, Science, Theology, Atheism, Climate

PoliTalker said:
Hello Darth,



Wrong. We spend most of our waking time tending to our needs, providing, earning, hygiene, eating and food prep. Dolphins only spend 15% of their waking time doing these things. All the rest of their time is 'free time,' usually used for their amusement and learning.

AI may get us there in the future, but right now we have some catching up to do in that category.
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I was going to mention dolphins. If they had opposable thumbs, they'd have colonies on Mars by now.
 
Phantasmal said:
I did not watch the video after reading about Berlinski who seems to to have acquainted himself with fossil evidence before attacking it, and also seems not to have an understanding of natural selection. I didn’t waste 40’mnutes of my time.
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I have no idea who he is. Is he member of the Discovery Institute?
 
NOVA said:
You're gonna have to ban a hell of a lot more pinhead liberals if you want a civil discussion on any topic....
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For a lefty to consider it a civil discussion, one has to agree with and go along with what they say.
 
Timshel said:
Nope.



Is THE definition of evolution. Adaptation is typically used to describe changes within a single organism and, of course, not over successive generations.

http://www.nas.edu/evolution/Definitions.html

Evolution is a fact and the TOE and common descent is well supported by science.

OTOH, your religion is a fairy tale for children and halfwits.
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The modern theory of biological evolution is often stated succinctly as "the change in allele frequency within a population over time.". Which, again, is an easily observed fact.
 
NOVA said:
Well, three out of four........the big bang ?.....I can't really grasp that notion, unless you think the big bang was creation itself....anything is possible.....
if not, what the hell was the big bang before it went bang....nothing ?
Nothing went bang and become something ?...... And thats the mystery....:dunno:
I don't think science explains the big bang theory at all....just because we see the universe as expanding isn't enough....and there are different theory's even about that phenomena....
are we seeing what we think we're seeing or is that in itself just an illusion because of our limited perspective.
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It's irrelevant whether or not you understand evolution or the big bang. You do not have the training, the education, or the intellectual background to have an informed opinion. Anything you say on the topic is either wildly misinformed, or irrelevant.

I barely can even grasp quantum mechanics, so I do not offer an opinion on it, or pretend to be armchair expert.
 
Timshel said:
We are still so ape like that we are, in fact, still apes. Ape is not a species but a group of species which includes humans. What you have said above is like saying we evolved from a primate like species, mammal like species, vertebrate like species, animal like species. You and your parents were still all of those things, not pimple he has no spine.
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Actually, all of the humans showed up suddenly, and inexplicably, in the fossil record.

Cro-Magnon and Neanderthal basically just appeared from seemingly nowhere and brought their cave art [and who knows what all, of one dares to question the conventional wisdom] with them.
 
Cypress said:
It's irrelevant whether or not you understand evolution or the big bang. You do not have the training, the education, or the intellectual background to have an informed opinion. Anything you say on the topic is either wildly misinformed, or irrelevant.

I barely can even grasp quantum mechanics, so I do not offer an opinion on it, or pretend to be armchair expert.
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You don't understand how 2 + 2 = 4, boy.
 
PoliTalker said:
Hello Darth,



Wrong. We spend most of our waking time tending to our needs, providing, earning, hygiene, eating and food prep. Dolphins only spend 15% of their waking time doing these things. All the rest of their time is 'free time,' usually used for their amusement and learning.

AI may get us there in the future, but right now we have some catching up to do in that category.
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Wrong.

What other species can even begin to conceive of CREATING AI?

Is there one I’m missing?
 
Darth Omar said:
We ARE special.

No other species even approaches man on several levels. There isn’t even a close second. The fossil record doesn’t adequately reflect it.
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Every species is special. Do you not notice the similarity in the words. It's not an accident.

No other animal approaches the mantis shrimp on several levels.
 
Darth Omar said:
And if humans were confined to the ocean we would have figured a way out of it by now lol.

Dolphins seem stuck there.
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C'mon, Darth - you're off the rails here.

Why is it important to you to believe man is "special" somehow? We're just one step in evolution - we happen to be dominating right now, but the period of time we have had that status is absolutely miniscule compared to other species in other eras.
 
Darth Omar said:
The Origin of the Species lol.

I’m good with speciation but I struggle with some aspects of common descent [particularly the ape-like to man jump] and I have my doubts about the creative power of natural selection.

There is plenty of room for God in it unless one takes a strict literalist view on the early chapters of Genesis.
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Well actually what little fossil evidence we do have of transitional species provides profound evidence of their common descent. Look at the difference between the hip structure and spinal column of a chimpanzee, australiopithicus aferensis and modern humans.

The chimps hip is narrower in width and oriented in a more horizontal plane and the spinal column is completely devoid of lordotic curves, in fact it's one sweeping kyphosis. This is indicative of the chimps being a quadraped and not a true biped.

Australiopithicus Aferenis hips is more vertically oriented, though not completely vertical, and broader than a chimps. Aferensis also has lordotic curves in the lumbar and cervical regions of the spinal column. Strong evidence that Aferensis was mostly bipedal, then compare to a modern humans with our broad and vertically oriented hips and pronounced lordotic spinal curves.

Aferensis thus provides a compelling example of a transitional species. Not quite ape, not quite hominid yet sharing large numbers of anatomical homologies shared by all three species. Now from a theoretical standpoint how do you explain the existence of this transitional species that is neither ape nor human but remarkably similar to both? Well common descent easily explains that phenomena. Ergo Aferensis is very compelling supporting evidence for common descent. Can you provide a better scientific explanation?
 
Thing1 said:
C'mon, Darth - you're off the rails here.

Why is it important to you to believe man is "special" somehow? We're just one step in evolution - we happen to be dominating right now, but the period of time we have had that status is absolutely miniscule compared to other species in other eras.
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Why is it so important to deny the obvious?

Forget religion. Man is unique amongst even the higher animals. It’s just a fact.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Well actually what little fossil evidence we do have of transitional species provides profound evidence of their common descent. Look at the difference between the hip structure and spinal column of a chimpanzee, australiopithicus aferensis and modern humans.

The chimps hip is narrower in width and oriented in a more horizontal plane and the spinal column is completely devoid of lordotic curves, in fact it's one sweeping kyphosis. This is indicative of the chimps being a quadraped and not a true biped.

Australiopithicus Aferenis hips is more vertically oriented, though not completely vertical, and broader than a chimps. Aferensis also has lordotic curves in the lumbar and cervical regions of the spinal column. Strong evidence that Aferensis was mostly bipedal, then compare to a modern humans with our broad and vertically oriented hips and pronounced lordotic spinal curves.

Aferensis thus provides a compelling example of a transitional species. Not quite ape, not quite hominid yet sharing large numbers of anatomical homologies shared by all three species. Now from a theoretical standpoint how do you explain the existence of this transitional species that is neither ape nor human but remarkably similar to both? Well common descent easily explains that phenomena. Ergo Aferensis is very compelling supporting evidence for common descent. Can you provide a better scientific explanation?
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Nope.

And I’m not convinced one exists to be discovered.
 
Thing1 said:
Why not? This is why I don't like the word "god." It really implies something supernatural, or outside of scientific consideration.

What if "god" is just a being from a previous universe that evolved to the point of being able to create without limitation? Theoretically, we'd have the ability to prove that scientifically if we had access to all knowledge...no?
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Well fine but until you can actually physically identify "God" or the "Evolved Being" then they would remain outside the scope of science. That's the age old, tried and true time tested rule for science.
 
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