Twenty-One Bad Things About Wind Energy — and Three Reasons Why

Havana Moon said:
There are promising systems on the horizon but they are not cheap. Pumped water storage and hydrogen are the most promising, but are still expensive to implement and require long times.

This company might have some of the answers, we shall wait and see.

https://www.vox.com/energy-and-envi...drogen-fuel-technology-economy-hytech-storage

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Don't you see, though? Your article started with "It’s not possible for wind energy, by itself, to EVER do this." The fact that even you think we need to "wait and see" on that completely undermines the idea that wind can't "EVER" be viable in that way. It makes the whole premise of the OP moot.

And the concession from you above is surprising, because you have always spoken in the same kind of head-in-the-sand absolutes as the very biased and agenda-driven article.
 
Havana Moon said:
Were you as successful at recycling as you are at condescension? The US is awash with gas, so why go for expensive and unreliable renewables when you can have CCGT power stations for a fraction of the cost? I mean holy shit, you have to have dispatchable power like gas on-tap anyway to back up wind so why bother?

Do you really think that lithium ion batteries are a clean technology? Because the huge pollution that results from rare earth mining happens in China, is it a case of out of sight, out of mind? If you say yes, then I'll know that you're a charlatan. Do you know that the US gets nearly 32% of its electricity from gas and just over 6% from wind? Even then wind requires huge subsidies to achieve that. How about you build the storage systems first and then the renewables afterwards?

It is also extremely curious that whenever I mention fourth generation nuclear, like that being developed by Terrapower, you suddenly then become a Luddite and only point out what you perceive to be the negatives, why is that?

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...s-head-to-china-to-test-experimental-reactors
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Because Tom the arguments you posted are advancing a false dichotomy. It's not a WIND POWER OR NOTHING choice. Wind Power for generating electricity has specific practicalities in specific circumstances in specific geographies. No one but a crank (pardon the pun) would claim it's the sole solution to world energy demand but the argument that it has no viability what so ever under any circumstances is equally wrong. As an adjunct for energy generation, particularly where the intermittent nature of wind power isn't an issue nor if the locations infrastructure in which wind power generation isn't destabilizing to the grid, such as regions with utilize hydropower, wind power has significant value. It's not a cure all but that value does exist. So as an adjunct to energy production to reach legitimate goals such as facilitating pollution prevention and energy independence, helping stabilize market price for power generation when FF prices increase, etc, etc.

There is no argument that despite it's specific disadvantages wind power can and has contributed productively to certain reasonable energy production goals in specific circumstances due to its advantages such as it's extraordinary energy to cost efficiency ratio of 20:1.

It has demonstrated so in places like New Zealand, China, the US, Canada, Brazil, that have developed hydroelectric infrastructure grids can easily adapt to the intermittent nature or wind power and it can significantly augment energy production to lowering demand for importing FF's and help stabilizing energy production pricing when FF's pricing is volatile. In addition many of the criticisms you pointed out are not issues in the US where we have the largest and best developed hydroelectric grid infrastructure in the world where there are very real synergies to be gained by augmenting that power production with wind power.

So no...wind power cannot, even if the storage problem is resolved with advancement in battery technology, be the sole solution to energy production but that doesn't mean in specific situations and locations that it cannot have productive value. That's simply wrong.

As for the nuclear question I bring up some of the very real disadvantages of nuclear power cause you fail to do so. To my credit. I'm not advancing any false choices about nuclear. Nuclear has seriously big advantages in cleanly producing energy. It also has extraordinary safety risks that other forms of energy production simply do not have.
 
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katzgar said:
well spoken. nay sayers usually ignore mans creativity
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Actually Tom does make some good points about wind power. It does have significant disadvantages. It's just that I see his arguments as advancing an all or nothing false choice about wind power. Wind Power as an adjunct to FF's and nuclear, in particular situations, can be quite useful.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Actually Tom does make some good points about wind power. It does have significant disadvantages. It's just that I see his arguments as advancing an all or nothing false choice about wind power. Wind Power as an adjunct to FF's and nuclear, in particular situations, can be quite useful.
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He talks about the disadvantages like they will always exist, and as though there is no chance that the technology can advance to become more affordable, viable and widespread.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Actually Tom does make some good points about wind power. It does have significant disadvantages. It's just that I see his arguments as advancing an all or nothing false choice about wind power. Wind Power as an adjunct to FF's and nuclear, in particular situations, can be quite useful.
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I don't think anybody expects wind energy to provide a hundred percent of our electricity. I think anybody that's tries to say what the future of wind energy will be is foolish.
 
Thing1 said:
Don't you see, though? Your article started with "It’s not possible for wind energy, by itself, to EVER do this." The fact that even you think we need to "wait and see" on that completely undermines the idea that wind can't "EVER" be viable in that way. It makes the whole premise of the OP moot.

And the concession from you above is surprising, because you have always spoken in the same kind of head-in-the-sand absolutes as the very biased and agenda-driven article.
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I am just pointing out what could happen in the future, I don't think it will happen quickly or cheaply enough, and large scale battery storage is just not feasible with lithium ion technology. The future, as I've pointed out many times, is CCGT and fourth gen nuclear for electricity generation. Where wind could work is in the production of hydrogen by electrolysis as a fuel for transport.

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Mott the Hoople said:
Actually Tom does make some good points about wind power. It does have significant disadvantages. It's just that I see his arguments as advancing an all or nothing false choice about wind power. Wind Power as an adjunct to FF's and nuclear, in particular situations, can be quite useful.
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Until storage is available on a grid scale, wind power is just not really viable. It doesn't replace fossil fuels only displaces them. Hydro power is a dispatchable energy source but only 6.5 % of total US electricity is produced from it and then only in mountainous areas. What is the point of using wind to displace gas, when you can just use gas instead? It is classic crony capitalism, enriching a few people. If wind is used to generate hydrogen for transport then I see some future for that.

It is not as if what I am saying isn't based on real world scenarios. Look at the Energiewende in Germany, that is a textbook example of how to turn a world-class electricity network into an unreliable and hugely expensive one instead. Need another example, then look at the problems in South Australia! In both cases, the catalyst was zealous Greens promoting unreliable technologies based on dogma not common sense.

https://stopthesethings.com/2017/12...els-plans-for-wind-powered-future-in-tatters/

http://instituteforenergyresearch.org/analysis/south-australia-falls-victim-green-hubris/



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