Is it worth it?

[Cancel 2020.1]

I'm not asking this in a snarky way. I'm genuinely curious what posters on both sides might think on this.

I don't know how Trump is going to be judged on the economy. Obviously, it depends on where it's at when he leaves - but it's doing great right now, and there is as much chance that it will be gangbusters throughout his admin as there is that it will topple. And this is a good thing; this one fact is something we should all celebrate.

And then there is the fact that he tweeted basically fake videos from one of the most extremist groups in GB today (a guy who lost his wife to the group said they're the equivalent of the KKK). He reportedly believes in a lot of the nutty conspiracy theories out there, and is even supposedly revisiting that Obama might have been born in Kenya. If reports are to be believed (and would this really be surprising?), he's starting to deny that it's him on the Access Hollywood tape. In short, he is more mentally unstable than basically anyone who has occupied that office. The severity of his issues are still to be determined, but most agree that there ARE issues, and they're fairly significant.

Beyond that, we can already see what kind of effect his pathological/amoral behavior is having on the country at large. As one writer put it, it's accurate to say we're in the "post-truth" era. A world of alternative facts and constructed realities is not just being accepted, but encouraged as some sort of shortcut to successful ends. And obviously, the country is not as friendly a place to be right now for many minorities, ethnicities, genders and religions.

So, is it worth it? Does character NOT matter, as long as the ends are achieved? Is that a standard we'd be comfortable with going forward?

 

[Cypress]

If you are asking the rightwing reactionaries, you have to keep in mind these are people who willingly chose, voted for, or defended some of the worst national candidates in American history - George Dumbya Bush, Sarah Palin, Dick Cheney, Donald J. Drumpf. People possessing the absolute worst character qualities: incompetence, arrogance, vindictiveness, and in Cheney's case, just pure fucking evil. I mean really, just a war criminal.

These rightwing reactionaries either cheered for torture, defended it or minimized it, claiming that water boarding, sleep deprivations, and forced stress positions were nothing more than fraternity pranks. That bears repeating: rightwing reactionaries supported, defended, or provided cover for torture. In congress, and right here on jpp.com.

They spent eight years of the Bush administration defending, excusing, or providing cover for Bush's Iraq War Disaster, which by 2005, at the latest, every reasonable, fair-minded sentient human being knew intuitively it was a category-five political, military, and more importantly, moral disaster. You would still be hard pressed today, over a decade later, to find many rightwing reactionaries who will express regret or remorse for their cheerleading of one of the most immoral foreign policy actions ever taken in the name of the United States.

Does character, morality, and principle matter? Not to most of the reactionary rightwing, that I can tell.

 

[BRUTALITOPS]

best fucking time of my life. Your tears sustain me. You can't stump the trump.

 

[Cancel 2020.1]

If you are asking the rightwing reactionaries, you have to keep in mind these are people who willingly chose, voted for, or defended some of the worst national candidates in American history - George Dumbya Bush, Sarah Palin, Dick Cheney, Donald J. Drumpf. People possessing the absolute worst character qualities: incompetence, arrogance, vindictiveness, and in Cheney's case, just pure fucking evil. I mean really, just a war criminal.

These rightwing reactionaries either cheered for torture, defended it or minimized it, claiming that water boarding, sleep deprivations, and forced stress positions were nothing more than fraternity pranks. That bears repeating: rightwing reactionaries supported, defended, or provided cover for torture. In congress, and right here on jpp.com.

They spent eight years of the Bush administration defending, excusing, or providing cover for Bush's Iraq War Disaster, which by 2005, at the latest, every reasonable, fair-minded sentient human being knew intuitively it was a category-five political, military, and more importantly, moral disaster. You would still be hard pressed today, over a decade later, to find many rightwing reactionaries who will express regret or remorse for their cheerleading of one of the most immoral foreign policy actions ever taken in the name of the United States.

Does character, morality, and principle matter? Not to most of the reactionary rightwing, that I can tell.

And yet they always try to claim the mantle of moral authority, and the question of a leader's "character" has been paramount for them time & time again...from Clinton's scandals to Kerry throwing his medals over the fence to Obama's church.

I think they have ceded a huge amount of ground with Trump. Character, the truth, morality - these aren't elements that they can lay claim to anymore with any seriousness. They've basically gone all in on Trump, for better or worse.

 

[anatta]

And yet they always try to claim the mantle of moral authority, and the question of a leader's "character" has been paramount for them time & time again...from Clinton's scandals to Kerry throwing his medals over the fence to Obama's church.

I think they have ceded a huge amount of ground with Trump. Character, the truth, morality - these aren't elements that they can lay claim to anymore with any seriousness. They've basically gone all in on Trump, for better or worse.

forget all that. I want a leader not a priest. I want my country to be secure and prosperous.
Anything else is gravy.
.get the basic taken care of like Trump is doing..the rest of the morality play by a bunch of immoral politicians does not interest me..at all.

 

[Cancel 2020.1]

forget all that. I want a leader not a priest. I want my country to be secure and prosperous.
Anything else is gravy.
.get the basic taken care of like Trump is doing..the rest of the morality play by a bunch of immoral politicians does not interest me..at all.

The bolded is a cop-out from the question of the OP, anatta.

No one is suggesting a priest. But how low are you willing to go for "the agenda"? Does character not matter at ALL to you, as long as the ends are achieved?

 

[anatta]

The bolded is a cop-out from the question of the OP, anatta.

No one is suggesting a priest. But how low are you willing to go for "the agenda"? Does character not matter at ALL to you, as long as the ends are achieved?

not really. WTF do I care about "character" of POTUS or Congress?

they are there to provide a service -governing. Just focus on good government (and what it entails)-
that's what they are hired for -not some moral purpose

 

[christiefan915]

not really. WTF do I care about "character" of POTUS or Congress?

they are there to provide a service -governing. Just focus on good government (and what it entails)-
that's what they are hired for -not some moral purpose

Character counts. Do I want a prez like Duterte with his summary executions of those he believes are drug lords?

That's "the end justifies the means" thinking.

 

[anatta]

Character counts. Do I want a prez like Duterte with his summary executions of those he believes are drug lords?

That's "the end justifies the means" thinking.

as long as POTUS is not a criminal..no character really doesn't count.

It's just like realpolitik. morals are not the business of government.

Focus on the basics. getting our economic house in order, and a sound foreign policy.

If you get "good character" too-consider it a bonus, but not a necessity

 

[Cancel 2020.1]

as long as POTUS is not a criminal..no character really doesn't count.

It's just like realpolitik. morals are not the business of government.

Focus on the basics. getting our economic house in order, and a sound foreign policy.

If you get "good character" too-consider it a bonus, but not a necessity

At least you're straight-up about it.

I couldn't possibly disagree more, though. The President sets the tone for the country. We'll see the effects of Trump's character for years to come.

 

[archives]

Hillary's character mattered. She colluded with Dirty Debbie Wasserman Schultz to steal the FEMOCRAT nomination and as a result there was simply no one else available to keep her out of power.

A vote for Trump was a vote that kept the congenitally crooked kleptocrat Clintons cooling their heinous heels until their next attempt to regain power.

Keeping America safe from Clintons is a goal that admits no half measures.

Hillary is unelected. Trump was the only means to that end.

It was worth it then, it is worth it now, and it always will be worth it.

Leave it to emjoi to resort to the "whataboutism," and employing Hillary makes it even that more amusing

 

[evince]

I'm not asking this in a snarky way. I'm genuinely curious what posters on both sides might think on this.

I don't know how Trump is going to be judged on the economy. Obviously, it depends on where it's at when he leaves - but it's doing great right now, and there is as much chance that it will be gangbusters throughout his admin as there is that it will topple. And this is a good thing; this one fact is something we should all celebrate.

And then there is the fact that he tweeted basically fake videos from one of the most extremist groups in GB today (a guy who lost his wife to the group said they're the equivalent of the KKK). He reportedly believes in a lot of the nutty conspiracy theories out there, and is even supposedly revisiting that Obama might have been born in Kenya. If reports are to be believed (and would this really be surprising?), he's starting to deny that it's him on the Access Hollywood tape. In short, he is more mentally unstable than basically anyone who has occupied that office. The severity of his issues are still to be determined, but most agree that there ARE issues, and they're fairly significant.

Beyond that, we can already see what kind of effect his pathological/amoral behavior is having on the country at large. As one writer put it, it's accurate to say we're in the "post-truth" era. A world of alternative facts and constructed realities is not just being accepted, but encouraged as some sort of shortcut to successful ends. And obviously, the country is not as friendly a place to be right now for many minorities, ethnicities, genders and religions.

So, is it worth it? Does character NOT matter, as long as the ends are achieved? Is that a standard we'd be comfortable with going forward?

its the sociopathic way



how long have I been telling you the republican party is run by sociopaths?


I was correct huh

 

[archives]

as long as POTUS is not a criminal..no character really doesn't count.

It's just like realpolitik. morals are not the business of government.

Focus on the basics. getting our economic house in order, and a sound foreign policy.

If you get "good character" too-consider it a bonus, but not a necessity

"Morals are not the business of Gov't," yet a large percentage of the right want the Gov't to enforce their morals, seems like a major contradiction

And "realpolitik" is a 19th/early 20th Century concept that obviously led to disaster, character does matter, what do you teach kids if your Nation's leader enforces daily his reputation of being a recognized liar?

 

[TTQ64]

At least you're straight-up about it.

I couldn't possibly disagree more, though. The President sets the tone for the country. We'll see the effects of Trump's character for years to come.

He's a fucking liar. He talked about President Obama's character for 8 years. Remember how they had a fit about Reverend Wright?

 

[anatta]

At least you're straight-up about it.

I couldn't possibly disagree more, though. The President sets the tone for the country. We'll see the effects of Trump's character for years to come.

why would you look to DC for moral authority on anything?
they are a bunch of scallywags ..

Are you familiar with the term "just as long as the trains run on time?"-it's credited to Mussolini,
and degraded as autocratic governing.

The US is bullet-proof from autocrats. So "as long as the trains run on time" is my bottom line

 

[canceled.2021.3]

I'm not asking this in a snarky way. I'm genuinely curious what posters on both sides might think on this.

I don't know how Trump is going to be judged on the economy. Obviously, it depends on where it's at when he leaves - but it's doing great right now, and there is as much chance that it will be gangbusters throughout his admin as there is that it will topple. And this is a good thing; this one fact is something we should all celebrate.

And then there is the fact that he tweeted basically fake videos from one of the most extremist groups in GB today (a guy who lost his wife to the group said they're the equivalent of the KKK). He reportedly believes in a lot of the nutty conspiracy theories out there, and is even supposedly revisiting that Obama might have been born in Kenya. If reports are to be believed (and would this really be surprising?), he's starting to deny that it's him on the Access Hollywood tape. In short, he is more mentally unstable than basically anyone who has occupied that office. The severity of his issues are still to be determined, but most agree that there ARE issues, and they're fairly significant.

Beyond that, we can already see what kind of effect his pathological/amoral behavior is having on the country at large. As one writer put it, it's accurate to say we're in the "post-truth" era. A world of alternative facts and constructed realities is not just being accepted, but encouraged as some sort of shortcut to successful ends. And obviously, the country is not as friendly a place to be right now for many minorities, ethnicities, genders and religions.

So, is it worth it? Does character NOT matter, as long as the ends are achieved? Is that a standard we'd be comfortable with going forward?

You really want this bullshit faulty premise to be taken seriously? Come the fuck on.

As Grind says, you would think I would tire of your tears, but alas I do not

 

[Cancel 2020.1]

why would you look to DC for moral authority on anything?
they are a bunch of scallywags ..

Are you familiar with the term "just as long as the trains run on time?"-it's credited to Mussolini,
and degraded as autocratic governing.

The US is bullet-proof from autocrats. So "as long as the trains run on time" is my bottom line

I don't personally look to DC for anything. But when the President gets ahead by lying, that has an effect. We're in what is now called a "post-truth era," and that has effects well beyond politics. When he tweets from extremist websites to stoke hatred and division, it has an effect.

He's not just a pen to implement policy. This is one where I actually know you're wrong; you have a very narrow view of what's entailed in being a world leader. Not that we've had paragons of morality, but every President's flaws in that area have had reach.

 

[anatta]

"Morals are not the business of Gov't," yet a large percentage of the right want the Gov't to enforce their morals, seems like a major contradiction

And "realpolitik" is a 19th/early 20th Century concept that obviously led to disaster, character does matter, what do you teach kids if your Nation's leader enforces daily his reputation of being a recognized liar?

I'm not the right. I don't want DC involved in morals one way or the other at all.
What maybe moral for you,isn't for me. It becomes a question of do you want a secular government or not?

I don't need morals/religion/anything but America first driving the agenda.
It like when human rights drives foreign policy -it's a disaster.

realpolitik is the way of the world. It's how the adults operate -by relationships of mutual interest.
Further it's not our business how Putin or what that Philippines guy does.
That starts the whole ball of wax of interference in foreign governments

 

[Cancel 2020.1]

You really want this bullshit faulty premise to be taken seriously? Come the fuck on.

As Grind says, you would think I would tire of your tears, but alas I do not

I figured a dopey poster would highlight those areas; I was just going w/ the day's news. I could easily replace those w/ more established issues. MANY more established issues.

 

[evince]

why would you look to DC for moral authority on anything?
they are a bunch of scallywags ..

Are you familiar with the term "just as long as the trains run on time?"-it's credited to Mussolini,
and degraded as autocratic governing.

The US is bullet-proof from autocrats. So "as long as the trains run on time" is my bottom line

boy that is real moral authority voter shit huh


its the republicons who says GOD should run the country remember


at least until they get their moralless guy appointed huh.


then their guy can grab pussy and be an out right racist if thy think they are getting what they want

oh and a con man too

dont forget the trump school con