What does it mean to be an American?

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I think that's really the crux of the NFL issue.

I think for some, it's what I would call the "love it or leave it" mindset. Not that you don't criticize the country or government, but you keep it to a minimum, and it should be respectful. You honor the flag, the anthem & other symbols of our country, and see them as sacrosanct. You may be prone to calling the U.S. the "greatest country in the world," even if you haven't traveled elsewhere. It's a more "traditional" brand of patriotism.

Then, there are the rabble-rousers. Those who want to rattle some cages, because as great as America is, it's not there yet. Dissent is patriotic to them, and it shouldn't be comfortable. The less respectful it is, the more it gets people talking, and the more people are talking, the better it is for your cause. It's not about the flag as an object to these people; it's about the liberty and ideals that the flag represents.

Obviously, my views & sympathies lie more w/ the latter crowd. But I get the former crowd, as well - I know a lot of people like that, and it's not like their heart isn't in the right place. But I think there will always be a very fundamental disagreement between these 2 groups regarding what it truly means to be an American. I don't think either side will ever understand the other.
 
I don't think so.......I think the crux of the NFL situation is, if you hate Trump, bend a knee.......if you don't, laugh at the folks bending knees.......
 
Better question, what is the purpose of playing the Star Spangled Banner at sporting events?

I've seen/heard it over and over at sporting events of all kinds, and other than standing up, majority of people attending don't do anything but wait till it is over, it has become a token jester, songs as God Bless America and This Land is your Land get bigger attention, people actually sing them
 
archives said:
Better question, what is the purpose of playing the Star Spangled Banner at sporting events?

I've seen/heard it over and over at sporting events of all kinds, and other than standing up, majority of people attending don't do anything but wait till it is over, it has become a token jester, songs as God Bless America and This Land is your Land get bigger attention, people actually sing them
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The Star Spangled Banner reflects the history of the USA- born in battle, hard won freedoms - including free speech.
 
archives said:
Better question, what is the purpose of playing the Star Spangled Banner at sporting events?

I've seen/heard it over and over at sporting events of all kinds, and other than standing up, majority of people attending don't do anything but wait till it is over, it has become a token jester, songs as God Bless America and This Land is your Land get bigger attention, people actually sing them
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It's an interesting side debate to this whole issue. I like the tradition of it personally, and we get some truly memorable performances sometimes, which I enjoy.

But I know what you mean; when I go to a game, it's definitely something that most fans don't really pay attention to since they're focused on the contest itself.
 
Thing1 said:
It's an interesting side debate to this whole issue. I like the tradition of it personally, and we get some truly memorable performances sometimes, which I enjoy.

But I know what you mean; when I go to a game, it's definitely something that most fans don't really pay attention to since they're focused on the contest itself.
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Those performances come rarely, usually it is some local singer, and the only thing people pay attention to is to see how the singer hits the high notes at the end

Point being the last thing it does is signify a unified demonstration of patriotism or respect for the armed services, just another scheduled token event that has become a tradition because it makes some feel they have done something
 
archives said:
Those performances come rarely, usually it is some local singer, and the only thing people pay attention to is to see how the singer hits the high notes at the end

Point being the last thing it does is signify a unified demonstration of patriotism or respect for the armed services, just another scheduled token event that has become a tradition because it makes some feel they have done something
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I certainly don't disagree. It's something I felt about w/ the "Pledge of Allegiance" my whole life.

It's a PLEDGE. If you do it one time, it should be like engraving it in steel. Having to recite it every day waters it down and basically makes the "pledge" aspect of it meaningless.
 
Thing1 said:
I certainly don't disagree. It's something I felt about w/ the "Pledge of Allegiance" my whole life.

It's a PLEDGE. If you do it one time, it should be like engraving it in steel. Having to recite it every day waters it down and basically makes the "pledge" aspect of it meaningless.
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Exactly
 
Thing1 said:
I think that's really the crux of the NFL issue.

I think for some, it's what I would call the "love it or leave it" mindset. Not that you don't criticize the country or government, but you keep it to a minimum, and it should be respectful. You honor the flag, the anthem & other symbols of our country, and see them as sacrosanct. You may be prone to calling the U.S. the "greatest country in the world," even if you haven't traveled elsewhere. It's a more "traditional" brand of patriotism.

Then, there are the rabble-rousers. Those who want to rattle some cages, because as great as America is, it's not there yet. Dissent is patriotic to them, and it shouldn't be comfortable. The less respectful it is, the more it gets people talking, and the more people are talking, the better it is for your cause. It's not about the flag as an object to these people; it's about the liberty and ideals that the flag represents.

Obviously, my views & sympathies lie more w/ the latter crowd. But I get the former crowd, as well - I know a lot of people like that, and it's not like their heart isn't in the right place. But I think there will always be a very fundamental disagreement between these 2 groups regarding what it truly means to be an American. I don't think either side will ever understand the other.
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There is a lot of good to be said on how Americans support their public institutions. It can be a little simple minded for some (as in Love it or leave it) but on the whole our respect for our public institutions, that is no one is greater than the institutions themselves, has been critical to our nations ascent as a great power.

It provides a strong unifying influence and thwarts much public corruption and goes a long way towards supporting sound governance.

Like anything those sentiments can be manipulated or abused or taken to far but by and large our respect for our public institutions is a pretty darned good thing.

The problem is when a demogogue takes advantage of political dissent to convince others that political dissent equates with disrespect to our public institutions which, of course, is absurd.

But hey no one ever went broke or lost public office underestimating the intelligence of the American public.
 
Thing1 said:
I think that's really the crux of the NFL issue.

I think for some, it's what I would call the "love it or leave it" mindset. Not that you don't criticize the country or government, but you keep it to a minimum, and it should be respectful. You honor the flag, the anthem & other symbols of our country, and see them as sacrosanct. You may be prone to calling the U.S. the "greatest country in the world," even if you haven't traveled elsewhere. It's a more "traditional" brand of patriotism.

Then, there are the rabble-rousers. Those who want to rattle some cages, because as great as America is, it's not there yet. Dissent is patriotic to them, and it shouldn't be comfortable. The less respectful it is, the more it gets people talking, and the more people are talking, the better it is for your cause. It's not about the flag as an object to these people; it's about the liberty and ideals that the flag represents.

Obviously, my views & sympathies lie more w/ the latter crowd. But I get the former crowd, as well - I know a lot of people like that, and it's not like their heart isn't in the right place. But I think there will always be a very fundamental disagreement between these 2 groups regarding what it truly means to be an American. I don't think either side will ever understand the other.
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Wouldn't the crux of the issue be what Kaepernick is kneeling for?

Shouldn't the focus be on institutional racism and police brutality against Blacks?
 
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