Intent & the slow death of American discourse

[Cancel 2020.1]

I brought this up in another thread, but why does intent no longer matter? For those on the left, we see this in instances where people use the "n word" (i.e. Bill Maher), and immediately get scorned as a racist, regardless of the intent of the speaker. I hate to see that; I think it really waters down what we mean by "racist" and dilutes what I consider to be real racism that is still a strong force in America and something we need to identify clearly and fight against.

Similarly, it pains me to see people describe the NFL protests as "spitting on the military" and disrespecting our veterans. Kaepernick was very clear that this was not what he was trying to do & that he has great respect for our vets. Many of the men who protested yesterday have family members who served honorably & who they honor and respect. It's obvious to any thinking, rational human that they are not targeting the military w/ their protest.

People seem to WANT to be offended. I think it's harder & more challenging to take a more honest, reasoned approach to the issues involved, and to what people are really trying to say & accomplish. The knee-jerk emotionalism prevents an honest conversation, and by extension, actual progress.

On a side note, I think it is much more disrespectful to the military for Trump to imply that he doesn't like soldiers who were captured. THAT is intent - he's clearly talking about a segment of the military & of our veterans in a negative way. I have no idea how someone can want to boycott the NFL for the latest actions of some players which are NOT targeted at the military, and still applaud and support Trump, who did specifically single out some in the military.

 

[Русский агент]

I think it is much more disrespectful to the military for Trump to imply that he doesn't like soldiers who were captured. THAT is intent - he's clearly talking about a segment of the military & of our veterans in a negative way. I have no idea how someone can want to boycott the NFL for the latest actions of some players which are NOT targeted at the military, and still applaud and support Trump, who did specifically single out some in the military.

You were doing fine until your feminized emotions kicked in and you abandoned logic in favor of venting your irrational hatred.

 

[MAGA MAN]

... it pains me to see people describe the NFL protests as "spitting on the military" and disrespecting our veterans. Kaepernick was very clear that this was not what he was trying to do & that he has great respect for our vets....

Too fucking bad for poor old has-been Kaepernick. He chose the wrong way to protest whatever the hell he was trying to protest. Although I am not an NFL fan, what I see is a bunch of players kneeling while a US Military Color Guard honors the flag. There is a time and place for everything, and what the players are doing is within neither.

 

[tsuke]

lol at the left bringing this up.

 

[Cancel 2020.1]

lol at the left bringing this up.

Scintillating commentary, as always.

Oh, and check the 1st paragraph again. Or, I shouldn't say again, since you clearly didn't read it.

 

[BRUTALITOPS]

it takes two. Both sides are to blame on this. And it's because we are extremely polarized. there is no getting around it. Liberals want more government, conservatives want less. That's not something that can be easily reconciled.

As for the protests, in my opinion the message is unclear. Kapernick (who's name I can't spell) made it clear what he was doing. Yesterday I didn't know if it was an anti-trump thing or a continuance of the same message from before. Did anyone clearify that? What will it take for them to stand again? Usually when one protests it's toward some acheivable goal. You say "I want this" and then hopefully you get what you asked for. But protesting against "racism" is like protesting against "sadness" or "bad feelings." That shit is never going to go away. It can be mitigated to a large degree, but it's not going anywhere. So to me the protest is too vague in nature.

 

[Cancel 2020.1]

it takes two. Both sides are to blame on this. And it's because we are extremely polarized. there is no getting around it. Liberals want more government, conservatives want less. That's not something that can be easily reconciled.

As for the protests, in my opinion the message is unclear. Kapernick (who's name I can't spell) made it clear what he was doing. Yesterday I didn't know if it was an anti-trump thing or a continuance of the same message from before. Did anyone clearify that? What will it take for them to stand again? Usually when one protests it's toward some acheivable goal. You say "I want this" and then hopefully you get what you asked for. But protesting against "racism" is like protesting against "sadness" or "bad feelings." That shit is never going to go away. It can be mitigated to a large degree, but it's not going anywhere. So to me the protest is too vague in nature.

I would agree that Kaep's protests were a bit clumsy and not totally clear to a lot of Americans. You'd have to listen to some interviews w/ him - it's really not that different from BLM. It's not simply racism, but the unfair treatment of much of the black community by authority.

Yesterday was a little more broad, because it included the NFL's feeling that Trump had no business inserting himself into the issue.

 

[Teflon Don]

I would agree that Kaep's protests were a bit clumsy and not totally clear to a lot of Americans. You'd have to listen to some interviews w/ him - it's really not that different from BLM. It's not simply racism, but the unfair treatment of much of the black community by authority.

Yesterday was a little more broad, because it included the NFL's feeling that Trump had no business inserting himself into the issue.

Again, it is laughable to say that blacks are oppressed in this country in 2017. That isn't to say there isn't racism, but it is silly to think that racism is only a one way street.

What you are witnessing is a backlash by people who are tired of being called racist, bigoted, homophobic sexists just because they disagree. Your thread seems to have noble intentions yet you sit idly by while BAC Panther and TTQ call any and everyone racist for not towing the line.

When everyone is racist nobody is.

 

[Cancel 2020.1]

Again, it is laughable to say that blacks are oppressed in this country in 2017. That isn't to say there isn't racism, but it is silly to think that racism is only a one way street.

What you are witnessing is a backlash by people who are tired of being called racist, bigoted, homophobic sexists just because they disagree. Your thread seems to have noble intentions yet you sit idly by while BAC Panther and TTQ call any and everyone racist for not towing the line.

When everyone is racist nobody is.

I had my thread where I "took on the left" re: racebaiting and all that. It's taken me this long to recover.

Is "oppressed" the right word? Probably not, but I think it's a mistake to gloss over it. Like I said on another thread, I was treated unfairly by a cop once, years ago, and it rattled me to the core. I can't imagine being targeted on a regular basis like some are.

 

[Micawber]

Too fucking bad for poor old has-been Kaepernick. He chose the wrong way to protest whatever the hell he was trying to protest. Although I am not an NFL fan, what I see is a bunch of players kneeling while a US Military Color Guard honors the flag. There is a time and place for everything, and what the players are doing is within neither.

On the contrary, it was perfectly calculated as evidenced by the massive publicity and your knowledge of the issue. Why would they squander their opportunity due to fame and audience and instead just have a silly tantrum on the internet like an anonymous loser nothin such as yourself?

 

[tsuke]

it takes two. Both sides are to blame on this. And it's because we are extremely polarized. there is no getting around it. Liberals want more government, conservatives want less. That's not something that can be easily reconciled.

As for the protests, in my opinion the message is unclear. Kapernick (who's name I can't spell) made it clear what he was doing. Yesterday I didn't know if it was an anti-trump thing or a continuance of the same message from before. Did anyone clearify that? What will it take for them to stand again? Usually when one protests it's toward some acheivable goal. You say "I want this" and then hopefully you get what you asked for. But protesting against "racism" is like protesting against "sadness" or "bad feelings." That shit is never going to go away. It can be mitigated to a large degree, but it's not going anywhere. So to me the protest is too vague in nature.

reparations now! A cadillac in every house!

 

[Life is Golden]

Is "oppressed" the right word? Probably not, but I think it's a mistake to gloss over it. Like I said on another thread, I was treated unfairly by a cop once, years ago, and it rattled me to the core. I can't imagine being targeted on a regular basis like some are.

Some? Like who, the obese waste of oxygen, Mike Brown, the lie spun out of whole cloth which gave us this:

and then this:

Seems the outcry is that blacks should be able to steal, pillage or maim whomever they want and by God, if a police officer dare intervenes "DATZ WAYCISS".

Well fuck that, and I think that's how most people feel even though they don't say it.

Done with all of it including the NFL now. Enough is enough.

 

[BRUTALITOPS]

When everyone is racist nobody is.

funny you should mention that. If you notice, the term "racist" has lost a lot of it's power. That's why now all of a sudden the new word on the street is "white supremacist." That used to mean to describe like literal skinheas with nazi tattoos that believed in "white power" - now it's anyone that doesn't tow the line, as you say.

 

[Русский агент]

funny you should mention that. If you notice, the term "racist" has lost a lot of it's power. That's why now all of a sudden the new word on the street is "white supremacist." That used to mean to describe like literal skinheads with nazi tattoos that believed in "white power" - now it's anyone that doesn't toe the line, as you say.

Some liberals have now decided that Asians are "enabling white supremacists".

 

[BRUTALITOPS]

asians blow all leftist theory about oppressed races out of the water. Asians were put in actual concentration camps 70 years ago. People hated the japanese for decades after. They were discriminated in the 1850's when building railroads for us. And yet asians are at the top of the educational ladder, and are professionally successful. They believe in the family unit, which helps to raise successful children. Liberals have spent the last 50 years dismantling the family unit.

 

[Русский агент]

it takes two. Both sides are to blame on this.

Liberals: ZOMFG! YOU ARE DEFENDING NAZIS!!! I'M LITERALLY SHAKING!!! REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

 

[Русский агент]

asians blow all leftist theory about oppressed races out of the water. Asians were put in actual concentration camps 70 years ago. People hated the japanese for decades after. They were discriminated in the 1850's when building railroads for us. And yet asians are at the top of the educational ladder, and are professionally successful. They believe in the family unit, which helps to raise successful children. Liberals have spent the last 50 years dismantling the family unit.

I'm totally serious.

Here's liberal logic on how Asians contribute to white supremacy.

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/exkdbz/how-asian-americans-contribute-to-white-supremacy

https://thenerdsofcolor.org/2017/08...cy-why-asian-american-representation-matters/

 

[Русский агент]

reparations now! A cadillac in every house!

Rayciss!

 

[Darth Omar]

it takes two. Both sides are to blame on this. And it's because we are extremely polarized. there is no getting around it. Liberals want more government, conservatives want less. That's not something that can be easily reconciled.

As for the protests, in my opinion the message is unclear. Kapernick (who's name I can't spell) made it clear what he was doing. Yesterday I didn't know if it was an anti-trump thing or a continuance of the same message from before. Did anyone clearify that? What will it take for them to stand again? Usually when one protests it's toward some acheivable goal. You say "I want this" and then hopefully you get what you asked for. But protesting against "racism" is like protesting against "sadness" or "bad feelings." That shit is never going to go away. It can be mitigated to a large degree, but it's not going anywhere. So to me the protest is too vague in nature.

I agree totally.

The NFL protests lack a concrete objective. The concept of 'injustice' for example, can be pretty subjective. As one writer pointed out, NFL players are the beneficiaries of a kind of economic injustice whereby they are able to receive higher salaries because the owners rely on cities to build their stadiums.

Maybe fans should start bending knees until that injustice is addressed.

 

[Teflon Don]

I had my thread where I "took on the left" re: racebaiting and all that. It's taken me this long to recover.

Is "oppressed" the right word? Probably not, but I think it's a mistake to gloss over it. Like I said on another thread, I was treated unfairly by a cop once, years ago, and it rattled me to the core. I can't imagine being targeted on a regular basis like some are.

Rattled you to the core? Seriously? I have looked at the stats. It is more dangerous for a black man to come in contact with another black man than with a cop. That’s a fact. Stop being played.

And nobody is saying there is no racism. What we are saying is that it is no longer the democrat Jim Crow era. To pretend it is like TTQ does is a lie