Century-old Francis Scott Key monument defaced with 'racist anthem' in Baltimore

Darth Omar said:
A sign of a skilled debater is the ability to play devils advocate.

That skill apparently escapes you.
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On this issue, it sure does. Because every argument I've read from you & anatta is silly.

You haven't really responded to any of my posts with anything more than "that argument can be easily dismissed" and "what a slippery weasel you are." So, forgive me if I don't put a lot of weight on your opinion regarding what constitutes "skilled debate."

I'm still waiting for you to even attempt it.
 
Thing1 said:
On this issue, it sure does. Because every argument I've read from you & anatta is silly.

You haven't really responded to any of my posts with anything more than "that argument can be easily dismissed" and "what a slippery weasel you are." So, forgive me if I don't put a lot of weight on your opinion regarding what constitutes "skilled debate."

I'm still waiting for you to even attempt it.
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The biggest hole in your argument is the fallacy of absolutism.

As Trump put it 'where does it stop?' Where does it stop? Slave owners were fairly abundant in the 17 and 1800's and many of these people, flawed as they were, were instrumental in forming the greatest nation *that bestowed more freedom on more people of all races* than any other nation on earth.

So, where do you draw your arbitrary line? With the Jefferson monument? Washington? Where, exactly?
 
Darth Omar said:
The biggest hole in your argument is the fallacy of absolutism.

As Trump put it 'where does it stop?' Where does it stop? Slave owners were fairly abundant in the 17 and 1800's and many of these people, flawed as they were, were instrumental in forming the greatest nation *that bestowed more freedom on more people of all races* than any other nation on earth.

So, where do you draw your arbitrary line? With the Jefferson monument? Washington? Where, exactly?
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With the man who was the general for the army that led the fight to preserve one of the greatest evils mankind has ever known.
 
Thing1 said:
With the man who was the general for the army that led the fight to preserve one of the greatest evils mankind has ever known.
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I don't get it.

Jefferson raped his slaves, no? What do you call sex with a slave besides a kind of rape?

Don't get weak kneed on me now, Thing. Follow your logic through to the end. Jefferson has to go.
 
Darth Omar said:
I don't get it.

Jefferson raped his slaves, no? What do you call sex with a slave besides a kind of rape?

Don't get weak kneed on me now, Thing. Follow your logic through to the end. Jefferson has to go.
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Nah - you're just trying to create some sort of slippery slope where one doesn't exist. You really NEED that slippery slope, so you can justify the "erasing history!" panic attack.

Did Jefferson commit treason? Did he take up arms to help perpetuate slavery? Did he lose?
 
Thing1 said:
Why? Are Democrats endorsing vandalism?

Again - you seem to think voters are really stupid. "Hey, I lost my job & the Dems seem to have a good plan here...but some fringe group protested a statue, so I'm voting GOP!"
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They aren't fringe. They are part and parcel of the democrat party. Your buddy BAC Panther and TTQ love em. You own em. I want em to do more.
 
Thing1 said:
Nah - you're just trying to create some sort of slippery slope where one doesn't exist. You really NEED that slippery slope, so you can justify the "erasing history!" panic attack.

Did Jefferson commit treason? Did he take up arms to help perpetuate slavery? Did he lose?
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In your most recent hyperbolic fit you called slavery 'the greatest evil to ever beset humanity' or whatever. Slavery may not be the greatest evil, but it's up there. And guess what? Slavery didn't end with the CW---it still goes on today. But you'd never know it based on the rhetoric of the SJW's. What ended with the CW was slavery by whites in this country.

At any rate, Jefferson gets a pass on it because he didn't commit treason? I thought slavery was the issue.
 
Thing1 said:
I don't really get the "other side," quite honestly. Lee's statue just doesn't offend me personally. I tend not to get too offended in general, and I'm not a PC person.

But on issues like that, I completely defer to people who DO find offense, and I get why they might. My ancestors didn't have to endure the horror of slavery. If we're going to err, it should be on the side of respect for what the confederacy and that statue might represent to them.

The whole "OMG! We're erasing our history!" alarmism is just pure nonsense. I can't really relate to it at all. Lee fought for people's right to own slaves, and he lost. I can't even muster a 10 second-long pity party for his statue coming down.
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no thing.. we don't just remove monuments and shove history in a closet because some people are offended.
Instead we teach the history. we excoriate the Confederacy for slavery. we also show the battles and the soldiers that were noble warriors on both sides.

You don't justs throw up your hands when someone is offended.
Instead you acknowledge the offense, and use it as a teachable moment.

I am personally appalled at US citizen today lack of understanding of their history.I mean we a re a clueless bunch
Many dont understand civics or how we got here as a nation

any exposure to history is welcome if it gets people to think -even if they might be offended,
then you speak to their offense -and get them to think more about US history
 
Darth Omar said:
And you are truly addicted to sanctimonious hyperbole lol.
Does any other opinion matter, or is it 'racist' to have a different opinion than yours?
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Thing represents a larger inability of many to cope. The majority of US citizens do not want wholesale removal.
Yet the screaming and anguish is all that is heard by chickenshit leaders like in Baltimore who are terrified there will be riots,or they won't get re-elected, So they remove statues in the dead of night without debate
 
Darth Omar said:
In your most recent hyperbolic fit you called slavery 'the greatest evil to ever beset humanity' or whatever. Slavery may not be the greatest evil, but it's up there. And guess what? Slavery didn't end with the CW---it still goes on today. But you'd never know it based on the rhetoric of the SJW's. What ended with the CW was slavery by whites in this country.

At any rate, Jefferson gets a pass on it because he didn't commit treason? I thought slavery was the issue.
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According to those that believe like Thingy, slavery was the ONLY issue.
 
Thing1 said:
Man, you really can't handle any kind of argument.
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You've yet to provide an opposing argument. You repeat talking points. That's not an argument. That's a parrot. Black people can provide a better and more viable argument in favor of affirmative action and that program is indefensible.
 
noise said:
Thing represents a larger inability of many to cope. The majority of US citizens do not want wholesale removal.
Yet the screaming and anguish is all that is heard by chickenshit leaders like in Baltimore who are terrified there will be riots,or they won't get re-elected, So they remove statues in the dead of night without debate
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Exactly.

It's not the end-all-be-all political issue but the monument dust-up is the sort of thing that led to Trump's election.
 
anatta said:
Nazi army had many war crimes..
Confederates were honorable soldiers -the Union took them in as soldiers after the war.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galvanized_Yankees
Galvanized Yankees was a term from the American Civil War used to refer to former Confederate prisoners of war who swore allegiance to the Union and joined the Union Army. Approximately 5,600 former Confederate soldiers enlisted in the U.S. Volunteers, organized into six regiments between January 1864 and November 1866. Of those, more than 250 began their service as Union soldiers, were captured in battle, then enlisted in prison to join a regiment of the Confederate States Army. They surrendered to Union forces in December 1864 and were held by the United States as deserters, but were saved from prosecution by being enlisted in the 5th and 6th U.S. Volunteers.[1] Approximately 800 former Confederates also served in volunteer regiments raised by the states, forming ten companies. Four of those companies saw combat in the Western Theater against the Confederate Army, two served on the western frontier, and one became an independent company of U.S. Volunteers, serving in Minnesota.


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Those confederate soldiers of long ago fought for federalism and states rights. Leftists are central planners. These leftists have demonized the confederacy and have equated it to Nazi Germany.

Slavery was made legal in the states by the US constitution. Slavery should have been condemned in the Declaration of Independence and abolished in 1787 at the drafting of the constitution.

The confederacy DID NOT fight to maintain slavery. This is a leftist myth and a lie. Two hundred and fifty thousand confederate soldiers did not die fighting to maintain slavery for a virtual handful of wealthy planters.

Robert E. Lee, Stonewall Jackson, Nathan Bedford Forrest, all are genuine american heroes. But they all have to go because they are part of western history.
 
philly rabbit was the most comical personality at DCJ. He definitely screwed a goofy face on the ugly British anglo saxon heritage western civ white man's burden stuff.
 
noise said:
no thing.. we don't just remove monuments and shove history in a closet because some people are offended.
Instead we teach the history. we excoriate the Confederacy for slavery. we also show the battles and the soldiers that were noble warriors on both sides.

You don't justs throw up your hands when someone is offended.
Instead you acknowledge the offense, and use it as a teachable moment.

I am personally appalled at US citizen today lack of understanding of their history.I mean we a re a clueless bunch
Many dont understand civics or how we got here as a nation

any exposure to history is welcome if it gets people to think -even if they might be offended,
then you speak to their offense -and get them to think more about US history
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Statues don't teach, you buffoon.

Stop being such a drama queen about this. It's a confederate statue; they were on the side of evil & they lost. The end.
 
Thing1 said:
Statues don't teach, you buffoon.

Stop being such a drama queen about this. It's a confederate statue; they were on the side of evil & they lost. The end.
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Simply asserting these aren't historical artifacts doesn't make it so.

To those who have an interest in the subject, the statues would absolutely present teachable moments. If you encounter them while your kids or grandkids are playing in the park and they ask about Robert Lee or whoever, it's an opportunity to enlighten them.

If you choose to indulge them in your black and white version of history and say Lee was an evil slave owner and leave out the rest, that's totally up to you.

But your side is on the side of intellectual darkness, so own it. Alongside the Taliban and some other unsavory characters.
 
Darth Omar said:
Simply asserting these aren't historical artifacts doesn't make it so.

To those who have an interest in the subject, the statues would absolutely present teachable moments. If you encounter them while your kids or grandkids are playing in the park and they ask about Robert Lee or whoever, it's an opportunity to enlighten them.

If you choose to indulge them in your black and white version of history and say Lee was an evil slave owner and leave out the rest, that's totally up to you.

But your side is on the side of intellectual darkness, so own it. Alongside the Taliban and some other unsavory characters.
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The bolded is so detached from reality.

Hey - maybe we should put some Taliban statues up so we can have "teachable moments" about them, too?
 
Anatta & Darth: do you both understand that the Confederacy in general represents slavery, oppression & treason to many people?

Do you understand why some also don't like to see the Confederate flag being prominently displayed?
 
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