Have Trump supporters given up defending Trump?

Darth Omar said:
If Trump can work with Putin to solve Syria I venture to say it would be historic.
Click to expand...

we haven't got the exact same goals..Russia wants a servile client state, but we both do not want an an Islamic group like Jabhat Fateh al-Sham (salafist/AQ linked) taking over..

if we could both be co-sponsors at the Geneva talks, that would be a decent level of cooperation
 
anatta said:
we haven't got the exact same goals..Russia wants a servile client state, but we both do not want an an Islamic group like Jabhat Fateh al-Sham (salafist/AQ linked) taking over..

if we could both be co-sponsors at the Geneva talks, that would be a decent level of cooperation
Click to expand...

so what if they get a servile client state? it might even let them focus their regional ambitions on syria rather than iran.
 
tsuke said:
so what if they get a servile client state? it might even let them focus their regional ambitions on syria rather than iran.
Click to expand...

I have no objection..Syria has been a Russian client state for decades..I am merely pointing out
Russian interests are not the same as ours in all cases in Syria.

But. They are not going to give up a geo-political stake with Iran..
Iran goes it alone in the ME w/little Russian influence
on the world stage Iran and Russia...collude
 
tsuke said:
i dont think syria matters one way or another tbh. even if it doesnt get fixed it serves a useful purpose in giving economic immigrants an excuse to swarm germany. Most of them dont come from syria but they can use that as an excuse to go.
Click to expand...

Isn't Syria Iraq all over again?

Saddam was a Baathist, Assad is a Baathist with Islamists waiting in the wings. How about we *not* overturn two Baathist regimes in the Middle East?

This is one place where the Tillerson/Trump policy is out of sync. We're either all in against ISIS or we're not. Tell Putin he can keep Assad but his end of the bargain is behaving in Crimea, the Ukraine and etc.

In the meantime, we either partner with Russia to clean ISIS out of Syria---or just get hell out of it altogether.
 
Covfefe said:
Yes, it will be an accomplishment.
Click to expand...

y though? a stable syria benefits our competitors in Germany and France the most. It would enable them to expel the economic migrants that they want to expel but the voters wont allow.

syria the way it is now is not too bad for the US.
 
Darth Omar said:
Isn't Syria Iraq all over again?

Saddam was a Baathist, Assad is a Baathist with Islamists waiting in the wings. How about we *not* overturn two Baathist regimes in the Middle East?

This is one place where the Tillerson/Trump policy is out of sync. We're either all in against ISIS or we're not. Tell Putin he can keep Assad but his end of the bargain is behaving in Crimea, the Ukraine and etc.

In the meantime, we either partner with Russia to clean ISIS out of Syria---or just get hell out of it altogether.
Click to expand...

yeah but during iraq we didnt have a merkel which unilaterally decided to invite all refugees into europe. As of right now a stable syria does not benefit the US a lot but benefits the EU greatly.
 
tsuke said:
. As of right now a stable syria does not benefit the US a lot but benefits the EU greatly.
Click to expand...

Your unspoken premise is that immigrants are bad. I don't know whether you are right or wrong and whose shoes you are wearing when you assert that, but I am going to make you own it.
 
tsuke said:
yeah but during iraq we didnt have a merkel which unilaterally decided to invite all refugees into europe. As of right now a stable syria does not benefit the US a lot but benefits the EU greatly.
Click to expand...

In realpolitik terms, a 'stable Syria' is Assad's Syria. He's a despot [by western standards], but left alone he can repair his own country and give the refugees/immigrants a place to return to. And if Europe has any sense, they would encourage their return.
 
tsuke said:
if they are as good as you claim germany should take them all and stop bothering poland hungary and all of our new allies in europe.
Click to expand...

I didn't say either good or bad. I am simply making you own an unspoken premise if you adopt it. Own it.
 
Darth Omar said:
In realpolitik terms, a 'stable Syria' is Assad's Syria. He's a despot [by western standards], but left alone he can repair his own country and give the refugees/immigrants a place to return to. And if Europe has any sense, they would encourage their return.
Click to expand...

does it matter to us if they have a place to return too? We are divided by an ocean and have a president who has the courage to say lol no when asked to take more refugees.

The primary beneficiary of a stable syria is germany and france who will no longer have to deal with the refugee crisis they instigated. If they want a stable syria maybe they should be the ones to work for it.
 
Micawber said:
Your unspoken premise is that immigrants are bad. I don't know whether you are right or wrong and whose shoes you are wearing when you assert that, but I am going to make you own it.
Click to expand...

How about we stipulate that unfettered immigration is bad and leave it at that.
 
For example, Japan could use some immigrants. They no longer procreate. Saying one country is like another is not true. China probably doesnt need immigrants.
 
Micawber said:
I didn't say either good or bad. I am simply making you own an unspoken premise if you adopt it. Own it.
Click to expand...

yes illegal immigration is bad. We already have laws concerning immigration and they should be followed.

Germany and france have their own laws (whatever it is) and those should be followed.
 
tsuke said:
yes illegal immigration is bad. We already have laws concerning immigration and they should be followed.

Germany and france have their own laws (whatever it is) and those should be followed.
Click to expand...

Seeking refuge by moving goalposts. Yes. Laws should've followed. The statement was merkel allowed barbarians in. Did she illegally allow them in?
 
tsuke said:
does it matter to us if they have a place to return too? We are divided by an ocean and have a president who has the courage to say lol no when asked to take more refugees.

The primary beneficiary of a stable syria is germany and france who will no longer have to deal with the refugee crisis they instigated. If they want a stable syria maybe they should be the ones to work for it.
Click to expand...

We were divided by an ocean from Europe in the last century and we saw how that turned out.

The primary reason refugees fled Syria was because of ISIS, not because of Assad. Trump needs to make ISIS the primary focus of his foreign policy---like he campaigned on.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top