The view from Minsk...

Cypress

Well-known member
Minsk.
A city rich in Soviet nostalgia; classic imposing and monolithic Stalinist architecture. Really, the “perfect” Soviet city, a testament to the Soviet legacy and also fascinating to anyone with even a modest historical interest in Soviet kitsch. A place where people still lay roses at the feet of statues of Lenin. My own interests in Minsk are perhaps a tad more pedestrian; I was in love for 72 hours with a belly dancer in Minsk, but from the more cerebral angel it is perhaps illuminating to consider the view that Vladimir Putin’s grandiose plans for a new, 21st century Russian empire is really looking largely like a failure -- going off the rails really.


Chris Miller sees Moscow’s plans to make Belarus a cornerstone of its Eurasian integration project as unsuccessful. Given its culture, history, and economy, no country is a more natural member of the ‘Russian world’ than Belarus. But over the past two years, no country has done more to demonstrate the weakness of Russian efforts to reestablish hegemony in the post-Soviet space....

Belarus and the Failure of the Russian World
Chris Miller

Moscow’s plans to make Belarus a cornerstone of its Eurasian integration project are looking like an increasingly bad bet.
In April 2014, a month after annexing Crimea, Russian President Vladimir Putin declared himself the defender of the Russkiy Mir—a “Russian world” dominated by ethnic Russians and encompassing most of the territory of the former Soviet Union. Observers in Russia and abroad had long interpreted the Kremlin’s interest in Eurasian integration as a thinly veiled effort to re-establish Moscow’s sphere of influence in the post-Soviet space. The seizure of Crimea was supposed to function as a demonstration of Russian resolve and a message to Moscow’s neighbors about the risks of resistance.

Three years have passed since Russia annexed Crimea. How is the “Russian world” project proceeding? Not well: In fact if anything it has gone in reverse. Putin himself has shelved the term. Excluding the Donbass and Crimea, Russian influence in Ukraine is at its lowest ebb since Catherine the Great. The Kremlin’s efforts to build the Eurasian Economic Union into a functioning trade bloc have scored mixed results at best. But the best evidence of the Kremlin’s failure to enhance its influence in the former Soviet space is its deteriorating relations with the country that long seemed the most natural candidate for entry into the Russian world: Belarus.

Relations between Moscow and Minsk have always been close yet complicated. Over the past several years, however, Belarussian President Aleksandr Lukashenko has reasserted Belarussian sovereignty, repaired some ties with the West, and demanded more benefits from Russia in exchange for preserving the two countries’ tentative friendship. Minsk and Moscow are now in the middle of a contentious negotiation over gas, which Russia has historically provided to Belarus at below-market levels. Subsidized gas is the price of Minsk’s willingness to tolerate Russia’s Eurasian integration agenda. But Belarusian demands keep increasing. The cost of retaining influence in Minsk has increased even as the Kremlin’s budget for buying friends has shrunk.

Since 2014—when Russia seized Crimea and the price of oil slumped—Lukashenko has offered reduced influence to Moscow but demanded more cash. There are three reasons why. First, rather than incentivizing obedience, the Crimean example gave Lukashenko a reason to hedge against Russian influence and defend Belarussian sovereignty. Second, the West responded to Crimea in part by reopening ties with Belarus, giving Minsk diplomatic options besides Moscow. Third, the oil-induced economic crisis hit Belarus as hard as Russia, so Lukashenko now needs extra Russian cash to address discontent at home, as the recent protests showed. He is driving a harder bargain with Russia, leading to the sharpest disagreements between the two countries in a decade. The cost of maintaining Belarus’ participation in the Russian world has gone up.

Compared to all other former Soviet republics, Belarus did the least to develop a unique national identity after independence in 1991. Russian is spoken far more widely than Belarusian; even Lukashenko usually speaks in Russian. The cultural links between Russia and Belarus motivated a movement to merge the two countries, though no progress was made beyond visa-free travel and extensive economic integration. Still, Belarus is more closely linked with Russian than any other post-Soviet country.

The annexation of Crimea, however, changed how the Belarusian elite approached the question of sovereignty. Suddenly cultural similarities with Russia represented a threat to the ruling regime in Minsk, lest the Kremlin use the pretext of defending Slavic brethren to unify the two countries by force. In 2014, Lukashenko started giving speeches in Belarusian. He refused to recognize Russian rule in Crimea, and positioned himself as a neutral mediator during peace talks between Moscow and Kyiv rather than a Kremlin lackey.

When Russia demanded access to airbases in Belarus, Minsk refused, even though the two countries ostensibly have a joint air defense system. After months of negotiations, Moscow has quietly shelved the issue, admitting that it lacks the tools to compel or coerce Belarus into handing over an airbase. Despite Lukashenko’s refusal to allow the basing of Russian planes in his country, Moscow agreed to give Minsk new military technology that it had previously refused to transfer—a concession from Moscow, and a victory for Minsk.

<snip>

But Moscow’s plans to make Belarus a cornerstone of its Eurasian integration project look increasingly unsuccessful. Minsk may be a founding member of the Eurasian Economic Union, but from Russia’s perspective it has also become the most frustrating member, constantly demanding new funds while simultaneously improving ties with the West. Strong-arming Minsk ought to be easy, but Russia has discovered how few tools it has to coerce Belarus, especially when the Kremlin’s budget is tight. Given its culture, history, and economy, no country is a more natural member of the “Russian world” than Belarus. Over the past two years, no country has done more to demonstrate the weakness of Russian efforts to reestablish hegemony in the post-Soviet space.


Full article
https://www.the-american-interest.com/2017/04/04/belarus-and-the-failure-of-the-russian-world/
belarusdigest.com
 
low energy prices. Eurasian Economic Union was always a pipe dream in competition with the EU
 
Minsk.
A city rich in Soviet nostalgia; classic imposing and monolithic Stalinist architecture. Really, the “perfect” Soviet city, a testament to the Soviet legacy and also fascinating to anyone with even a modest historical interest in Soviet kitsch. A place where people still lay roses at the feet of statues of Lenin. My own interests in Minsk are perhaps a tad more pedestrian; I was in love for 72 hours with a belly dancer in Minsk, but from the more cerebral angel it is perhaps illuminating to consider the view that Vladimir Putin’s grandiose plans for a new, 21st century Russian empire is really looking largely like a failure -- going off the rails really.


Chris Miller sees Moscow’s plans to make Belarus a cornerstone of its Eurasian integration project as unsuccessful. Given its culture, history, and economy, no country is a more natural member of the ‘Russian world’ than Belarus. But over the past two years, no country has done more to demonstrate the weakness of Russian efforts to reestablish hegemony in the post-Soviet space....
trump is a Putin wannabe. Publicly declare victories, as your empire crumbles at your feet.
 
low energy prices. Eurasian Economic Union was always a pipe dream in competition with the EU

While I appreciate the arm chair expert analysis, I am not one to think complex cultural, political, historical subject matter that have played out on the stage of history for half a millennium can be boiled down to one sentence, although undoubtedly energy is and always will be an important consideration.



Surprisingly, I find the native Belarusian writers and journalists I read a bit more sophisticated in their analyses of the state of relations between the former CIS states. And even these experts don't know all the answers. It seems that your hero, Putin's occupation of Crimea and proxy war in eastern Ukraine did as much as anything to spook the Belarusians.
 
While I appreciate the arm chair expert analysis, I am not one to think complex cultural, political, historical subject matter that have played out on the stage of history for half a millennium can be boiled down to one sentence, although undoubtedly energy is and always will be an important consideration.



Surprisingly, I find the native Belarusian writers and journalists I read a bit more sophisticated in their analyses of the state of relations between the former CIS states. And even these experts don't know all the answers. It seems that your hero, Putin's occupation of Crimea and proxy war in eastern Ukraine did as much as anything to spook the Belarusians.

Is your armchair more sophisticated than his?
 
While I appreciate the arm chair expert analysis, I am not one to think complex cultural, political, historical subject matter that have played out on the stage of history for half a millennium can be boiled down to one sentence, although undoubtedly energy is and always will be an important consideration.



Surprisingly, I find the native Belarusian writers and journalists I read a bit more sophisticated in their analyses of the state of relations between the former CIS states. And even these experts don't know all the answers. It seems that your hero, Putin's occupation of Crimea and proxy war in eastern Ukraine did as much as anything to spook the Belarusians.

the answer is to end Cold War 2.0 MADNESS, and let the economic alliance happen along economic -not militaristic lines ( gee what a concept).
You do this thru TALKING not POSTURING
 
the answer is to end Cold War 2.0 MADNESS, and let the economic alliance happen along economic -not militaristic lines ( gee what a concept).
You do this thru TALKING not POSTURING

Not sure what this clichéd rhetoric has to do with Belarus and the state of affairs between the former CIS states.

I have never heard a serious politician in the Democratic party suggest we need a "cold war 2.0". I am pretty sure that buzzword does not even exist outside the blogs of the wingnutosphere.

The only person I have heard talking about new arms races, is your Hero, Donald J. Drumpf, who is on record blathering about a starting (and winning) a new nuclear arms race.

I personally think when your hero, Vladimir Putin, invaded Ukraine and started a proxy war in Eastern Ukraine, he not only violated international law, and standards of international conduct, but he also spooked the Belarusian government who hitherto were in essence, a kind of Russian puppet state - Russia's most trustworthy and loyal ally on the planet. It is not coincidence that Lukashenko started giving speeches in the (rarely used) native Belarusian language after your Hero occupied Crimea.

Now, with respect to the internal politics of Ukraine and Belarus, I really don't give a shit if they have a pro-western, or pro-Russian governments. I really do not understand why American busybodies care one way or the other. That is, and should be up, to the people of Ukraine and Belarus. My main concern - as an American - is that standards of international conduct be upheld, and international law be respected and enforced. Otherwise, we might as well just throw in the towel, and go back to 19th century colonialism, or mid 20th century proxy client-states controlled and directed by two superpowers.
 
Not sure what this clichéd rhetoric has to do with Belarus and the state of affairs between the former CIS states.

I have never heard a serious politician in the Democratic party suggest we need a "cold war 2.0". I am pretty sure that buzzword does not even exist outside the blogs of the wingnutosphere.

The only person I have heard talking about new arms races, is your Hero, Donald J. Drumpf, who is on record blathering about a starting (and winning) a new nuclear arms race.

I personally think when your hero, Vladimir Putin, invaded Ukraine and started a proxy war in Eastern Ukraine, he not only violated international law, and standards of international conduct, but he also spooked the Belarusian government who hitherto were in essence, a kind of Russian puppet state - Russia's most trustworthy and loyal ally on the planet. It is not coincidence that Lukashenko started giving speeches in the (rarely used) native Belarusian language after your Hero occupied Crimea.

Now, with respect to the internal politics of Ukraine and Belarus, I really don't give a shit if they have a pro-western, or pro-Russian governments. I really do not understand why American busybodies care one way or the other. That is, and should be up, to the people of Ukraine and Belarus. My main concern - as an American - is that standards of international conduct be upheld, and international law be respected and enforced. Otherwise, we might as well just throw in the towel, and go back to 19th century colonialism, or mid 20th century proxy client-states controlled and directed by two superpowers.
we don't "need"a Cold War II-and no politician would ever use such a term. Especially the Russiaphobes.
The point is we are in a new cold war. post Soviet Union

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_War_II
Cold War II,[1][2] also called the New Cold War,[3][4] Second Cold War[5][6][7] and Cold War 2.0,[8][9] refers to a renewed state of political and military tension between opposing geopolitical power-blocs, with one bloc typically reported as being led by either Russia or China,[10] and the other led by the United States or NATO. This is akin to the original Cold War that saw a global confrontation between the Western Bloc led by the United States and the Eastern Bloc led by the Soviet Union, Russia's predecessor state. American political scientist Robert Legvold posits that the "new Cold War began the moment we went over the cliff, and that happened with the Ukraine crisis."[11][12] Others, such as Andrew C. Kuchins in 2016, believe that the term is "unsuited to the present conflict," but the situation is arguably more dangerous than during the original Cold War.[13] One of the primary features of the "New Cold War", as first defined by Philip N. Howard, is that conflict is experienced primarily over and through broadcast media, social media, and information infrastructure.[4]
++

I think Belarus would rather throw their economic lot in with western Europe w/the sanctions and low energy prices
not being attractive for any Russian based trading block.

I posted this on another thread, where Putin was reacting to the Euromaiden' US meddling in the Ukraine's Independence Square.

He views this as a violation of the Budapest memorandum. the same way we view Crimea as a violation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum_on_Security_Assurances
Following the annexation of Crimea by the Russian Federation in 2014, the US,[6][7] Canada,[8] the UK,[9] along with other countries,[10] stated that Russian involvement was a breach of its obligations to Ukraine under the Budapest Memorandum, a Memorandum transmitted to the United Nations under the signature of Sergei Lavrov, amongst others,[11] and in violation of Ukrainian sovereignty and territorial integrity. On 4 March 2014, Russian president replied to a question on violation of Budapest Memorandum, describing current Ukrainian situation as a revolution, when "a new state arises, but with this state and in respect to this state, we have not signed any obligatory documents".[12] Russia stated it had never been under obligation to "force any part of Ukraine's civilian population to stay in Ukraine against its will." Russia suggested that the US was in violation of the Budapest Memorandum, describing the Euromaidan as a US-instigated coup.[13]
 
Last edited:
Literally the only person I have ever heard say "Cold War II" is anatta.
educate yourself. This is from Foreign Policy mag..do you ever study things like this? you should.
But you won't find it on cable news..this from 2014 (predicting now- written right after Crimea)



Welcome to Cold War II
http://foreignpolicy.com/2014/03/04/welcome-to-cold-war-ii/
the West and Russia have sailed into uncharted waters. Crimea has de facto declared independence from Kiev. Russia has intervened to effectively secure the new entity without, so far, a shot being fired.
The Ukrainian police, security, and military forces on the peninsula have been neutralized, many of them pledging allegiance to the Autonomous Republic of Crimea.
In Kiev, the new government talks about Russia’s aggression and orders mobilization — even as it loses control over some of the key cities in the country’s east and south.
Meanwhile, the West has responded with suspension of preparations for the G-8 summit in Sochi.
The U.S. president has talked about Russia paying a high price for its actions, and the U.S. secretary of state has laid out a menu of possible sanctions and other measures.

Thus, the post-Cold War may now be seen, in retrospect, as the inter-Cold War period. The recent developments have effectively put an end to the interregnum of partnership and cooperation between the West and Russia that generally prevailed in the quarter-century after the Cold War.
Geopolitically, this period saw a massive reduction of Russian power and influence in Europe and Eurasia, along with the arrival of new states, many of them carved out of the historical Russian Empire.
Instead, the United States became the dominant power in Eurasia, and the European Union, while no great power or even a strategic actor itself, turned into an economic magnet for its eastern neighbors.
The Russian Federation, the core of the former empire, was essentially left out of the new system, mired in an increasingly awkward, uneasy relationship with the United States and Europe.


The successful, Western-supported revolution in Kiev in February fatally undermined the delicate balance in the key state between Russia and the West.

Even the 2008 war against Georgia was fought by the Russians in response to the Georgian shelling of South Ossetia, which killed Russian peacekeepers deployed there. But all these events, as well as the ramifications they caused vis-à-vis the West, pale compared with what’s coming now.

Farther north, one can safely forecast pressure building for permanent, if symbolic, U.S. troop deployments in Poland and the Baltic states, as well as for Finland’s and Sweden’s membership in NATO.

There will be no return to the eyeball-to-eyeball Cold War confrontation, though; on the contrary, the relationship is likely to grow even more distant
doing anything together in Syria or Iran would become much more difficult. Trade and investment will be restricted as a result of U.S. government sanctions.

U.S.-Russia geopolitical competition will not be confined to Ukraine, but a string of proxy wars is also not in the offing. However, U.S.-Russia collaboration on Syria, Iran, and Afghanistan will suffer.

This will be the dawn of a new period, reminiscent in some ways of the Cold War from the 1940s to 1980s. Like with the two world wars, the failure to resolve the issues arising out of the imperfect peace settlement and the failure to fully integrate one of the former antagonists into the new system are leading to a new conflict — even if a large-scale war will again be safely avoided.

Yet, it will be for real. Competition between two unequal parties carries additional risks of underestimating the other side or overreacting. Keeping the world safe in the uncertain times ahead will be a bigger challenge than many thought only two weeks ago.
 
It sounds more like you & foreign policy mag WANT it to be Cold War II.
I just don't want Russia interfering in our elections.
not to let Putin off the hook, but with NATO expansion, the meddling in the euromaiden, arming up all over Europe
and Obama's disengagement otherwise in the Uk..we are responsible for at least 1/2 of how we got here..

The Russian meddling baked in the Russiaphobia, whereas before Trump was more conciliatory toward Putin's views.
But we control our destiny - don't get led around by the John McCain types who want more of the same.
That's a worthwhile resistance
 
Back
Top