Are you sure you want single payer healthcare in the U.S.?

Stretch said:
Why this occurred in Canada is outlined in the article.
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Also correlating life expectancy with healthcare systems can be misleading. Americans life expectancy isn't up to par because Americans have become sedentary. Diet and lifestyle are huge factors as well.

Anyone who thinks single payer healthcare would magically increase US life expectancy is delusional.
 
Bill said:
Ppl that can afford like our system, those that don't are going to be dying a lot sooner, just sayin, thnx trumpkins..
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It would help the debate if one side didn't accuse the other of trying to kill people.

Healthcare is like any other service commodity: It's a kind of resource; it's not infinite, so it's fundamentally a question which system allocates the resource most efficiently.
 
Stretch said:
I guess I just don't want to pay everybody's insurance. I recognize the need for Medicaid for helping out for those in between jobs or truly disabled and I don't mind paying some taxes toward that. Otherwise there is always the Public Health Dept. (also funded by taxpayers) for the working poor, habitual abusers or chronically pregnant. I've spent my life paying for other peoples' babies and 12 years of public schooling. Thankfully, when I turn 65 I'll no longer be penalized with paying taxes for the schools anymore.

Other than all that, everyone should have the right to choose their own method of caring for their health and get the federal government out of my health concerns.
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but you are paying for it.Medicade, Medicade expansion and health related services.

Again the best way to go is SP like public schools -pay taxes for it, but you don't have to buy it thru premiums.
Or for those who want services on demand -then can pay for it privately.

and you pay for it thru medical costs where prevention (access) could have reduced emergency care.
 
Darth Omar said:
It would help the debate if one side didn't accuse the other of trying to kill people.

Healthcare is like any other service commodity: It's a kind of resource; it's not infinite, so it's fundamentally a question which system allocates the resource most efficiently.
Click to expand...
I just turned on FOX
Trump was on saying it would be nice to have Democratic input. That way the bill could be the best.
We could craft it on a bi-partisan basis instead of ramming something thru by reconcilliation

Instead arseholes like Schumer/Warren put out this "blood money" crap.
Trump is the reasonable person -the adult in the room, The resistance are a bunch of petulant children
 
anatta said:
I just turned on FOX
Trump was on saying it would be nice to have Democratic input. That way the bill could be the best.
We could craft it on a bi-partisan basis instead of ramming something thru by reconcilliation

Instead arseholes like Schumer/Warren put out this "blood money" crap.
Trump is the reasonable person -the adult in the room, The resistance are a bunch of petulant children
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Yup.

If republicans are going to bail on it reach out to democrats. I probably won't like the result but the government functions best with compromise. But conservatives can live to fight another day when it comes to refining it.
 
Darth Omar said:
Yup.

If republicans are going to bail on it reach out to democrats. I probably won't like the result but the government functions best with compromise. But conservatives can live to fight another day when it comes to refining it.
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sure. I don't think shoving stuff thru like Obamacare, or Trumpcare is thoughtful legislation.
I don't want to keep doing this over and over either.
 
anatta said:
but you are paying for it.Medicade, Medicade expansion and health related services.

Again the best way to go is SP like public schools -pay taxes for it, but you don't have to buy it thru premiums.
Or for those who want services on demand -then can pay for it privately.

and you pay for it thru medical costs where prevention (access) could have reduced emergency care.
Click to expand...

Trump is right lol. Healthcare is more complicated than people realize.

The focus has been 100% on the consumer side of the equation with no consideration given to the delivery side. That is, the people who work in the industry are going to be affected by SP---or any other system we finally end up with.

The downside to SP is it deincentivizes 'production', as it were. In the current free market[ish] system doctors, pharmaceutical manufacturers and etc all have a monetary incentive to produce a product or service. As soon as the government steps the first thing they will do is cut costs.

They will tell the service producers 'we're only going to pay X for Z service or procedure. Period.' That actually goes on now with insurance but 'socialized medicine' will exacerbate it.

To be blunt, many doctors [especially those who do elective stuff and have their student loans paid off] are going to say 'screw that'. And they'll just work less. If you want to see them really slow down, put them on a government salary.

It's probably a simplistic summation, but that's why you have wait times in Canada.
 
anatta said:
well what I mean is more like a public option to buy into Medicare.It should be there.
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How does one buy into Medicare? That is stupid

Medicare doesn't negotiate lower prices. The government doesn't negotiate. They dictate. And the patient suffers either with long waits or subpar outcomes by subpar doctors.
 
Cypress said:
Your source, National Review, is a hyper-partisan rightwing advocacy organization that cannot be trusted to provide unbiased information on this topic.

In short, I believe nothing from your source.

Try again, with a non-partisan source.
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like the Commonwealth Fund quoted as conflicting data?......
The mission of The Commonwealth Fund is to promote a high-performing health care system that achieves better access, improved quality, and greater efficiency, particularly for society's most vulnerable, including low-income people, the uninsured, minority Americans, young children, and elderly adults.
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http://www.commonwealthfund.org/about-us/foundation-history
 
Alice in Liberaland said:
How does one buy into Medicare? That is stupid

Medicare doesn't negotiate lower prices. The government doesn't negotiate. They dictate. And the patient suffers either with long waits or subpar outcomes by subpar doctors.
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Lieberman threatened to fillibuster it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_health_insurance_option
The Public Option Act would have allowed all citizens and permanent residents to buy into a public option by participating in the public Medicare program.
The federal government's health insurance plan would have been financed entirely by premiums without subsidy from the Federal government,[3] although some plans called for government seed money to get the programs started.
Ultimately, the public option was removed from the final bill. While the United States House of Representatives passed a public option in their version of the bill, the public option was voted down in the Senate Finance Committee
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I have not read this thread at all. Just want to state that. I got as far this and something caught my eye:

In terms of specialized treatment, national wait times were longest for neurosurgery (46.9 weeks) and shortest for medical oncology (3.7 weeks).
• Neurosurgery: 46.9 weeks
• Orthopaedic surgery: 38
• Ophthalmology: 28.5
• Plastic Surgery: 25.9

WTF Canadians????????????????? You want to wait to walk, talk, actually see. But boy, no waiting to make your ass look better!!
 
anatta said:
but you are paying for it.Medicade, Medicade expansion and health related services.

Again the best way to go is SP like public schools -pay taxes for it, but you don't have to buy it thru premiums.
Or for those who want services on demand -then can pay for it privately.

and you pay for it thru medical costs where prevention (access) could have reduced emergency care.
Click to expand...

Thank-you. I see your valid points. :) Guess I'm just fed up with continually handing over so much of our own personal responsibilities to the big bloated inefficient federal government. I can't imagine this is what the founding fathers had in mind. Seems everything they touch turns to crap (pardon my language, LOL)
 
Sailor said:
I have not read this thread at all. Just want to state that. I got as far this and something caught my eye:

In terms of specialized treatment, national wait times were longest for neurosurgery (46.9 weeks) and shortest for medical oncology (3.7 weeks).
• Neurosurgery: 46.9 weeks
• Orthopaedic surgery: 38
• Ophthalmology: 28.5
• Plastic Surgery: 25.9

WTF Canadians????????????????? You want to wait to walk, talk, actually see. But boy, no waiting to make your ass look better!!
Click to expand...

Big LOL. I thought the same thing when I read that.
 
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