POTUS arrives in Italy

Right said:
So he doesn't agree with you, non-Catholic Cristiefan lol
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What does Jesus say about tax cheats? Mark 12:17 And Jesus said unto them, Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and unto God the things that are God's.

What does Pope Francis say about the poor?

54. Almost without being aware of it, we end up being incapable of feeling compassion at the outcry of the poor, weeping for other people's pain, and feeling a need to help them, as though all this were someone else's responsibility and not our own. The culture of prosperity deadens us; we are thrilled if the market offers us something new to purchase. In the meantime, all those lives stunted for lack of opportunity seem a mere spectacle; they fail to move us.

57. I encourage financial experts and political leaders to ponder the words of [Saint John Chrysostom], one of the sages of antiquity: "Not to share one's wealth with the poor is to steal from them and to take away their livelihood. It is not our own goods which we hold, but theirs.
 
christiefan915 said:
<yawn> You're a tax cheat and a Pharisee. Go back to studying The Art of Dealing with the Ten Commandments. I bet you loathe Pope Francis.

"During the return flight from Rio de Janeiro I said that if a homosexual person is of good will and is in search of God, I am no one to judge. By saying this, I said what the catechism says. Religion has the right to express its opinion in the service of the people, but God in creation has set us free: it is not possible to interfere spiritually in the life of a person."
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Actually it was exactly what the Pharisees (like today's government) did. The tithes were taxes. They had 3 tithes (taxes) back then. Temple tax, Festival tax and another which was supposed to go to widows and orphans. They forced the last copper cent out of the poor widow. When the widows finally went broke they took ownership of any property their late husbands had left them. They did that a lot. Jesus went ballistic on them for robbing the poor widows.

Only the Jews continue with tithing because they still live under the Law. Jesus fulfilled all the O.T. Law which is why Jesus and his Disciples taught us the new way to give in 2nd Corinthians 9......."to give freely whatever we have purposed in our hearts to give, not under compulsion or grudgingly."
 
christiefan915 said:
What does Jesus say about tax cheats? Mark 12:17 And Jesus said unto them, Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and unto God the things that are God's.

What does Pope Francis say about the poor?

54. Almost without being aware of it, we end up being incapable of feeling compassion at the outcry of the poor, weeping for other people's pain, and feeling a need to help them, as though all this were someone else's responsibility and not our own. The culture of prosperity deadens us; we are thrilled if the market offers us something new to purchase. In the meantime, all those lives stunted for lack of opportunity seem a mere spectacle; they fail to move us.

57. I encourage financial experts and political leaders to ponder the words of [Saint John Chrysostom], one of the sages of antiquity: "Not to share one's wealth with the poor is to steal from them and to take away their livelihood. It is not our own goods which we hold, but theirs.
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We know what he said about queers and abortion. No wonder you quit the faith.
 
Stretch said:
Actually it was exactly what the Pharisees (like today's government) did. The tithes were taxes. They had 3 tithes (taxes) back then. Temple tax, Festival tax and another which was supposed to go to widows and orphans. They forced the last copper cent out of the poor widow. When the widows finally went broke they took ownership of any property their late husbands had left them. They did that a lot. Jesus went ballistic on them for robbing the poor widows.

Only the Jews continue with tithing because they still live under the Law. Jesus fulfilled all the O.T. Law which is why Jesus and his Disciples taught us the new way to give in 2nd Corinthians 9......."to give freely whatever we have purposed in our hearts to give, not under compulsion or grudgingly."
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At one time I was in a bible study group with mostly fundamentalist Christians and they tithed. I don't know if their churches encouraged/required it, but they were very strict about it.
 
christiefan915 said:
I never quit the faith Cleo, but why don't you quote chapter and verse on the above? Somehow I doubt Jesus used an Aramaic slang term like "queers" for homosexuals.
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The Pope, dullard. The Pope's positions. You believe the exact opposite of what was quoted in post # 57.

If you only had a brain.
 
christiefan915 said:
At one time I was in a bible study group with mostly fundamentalist Christians and they tithed. I don't know if their churches encouraged/required it, but they were very strict about it.
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Yup, it's a big money-maker for some "Christian" denominations. They all quote the infamous Malachi 3:8 from the O.T. They preach long lovely messages about how we now live by grace, free from Jewish Law. But, when offering time comes around they "guilt" you into giving grudgingly according O.T. Law. They want to stick us right back under the Law...see the hypocrisy here?

The Bible clearly states that if you choose to live under the Law, you need to keep aaaallllllllll the law...break just 1 Law (and there hundreds) and you're damned. So, if we choose to only pick out that one Scripture to follow for giving, we better be still be sacrificing animals, following all the festivals, chopping off hands of thieves, etc., etc. But, as I said certain sections of Christianity have chosen to put that weight on the shoulders of their parishioners.

I'm sorry I didn't explain the 3 tithes (taxes) very well before. Here is a clearer explanation:

1st Tithe - Numbers 18:21-26
• The 'classic definiton' of tithing - The Israelities gave a tenth to the Levites (the priestly tribe) as a "reward for service" (vs. 31)
• The Levites would then give Aaron the high priest the best tenth of everything they received (see also Neh 10:38)
• The tithe which Aaron the high priest and his sons received was thento be eaten in the most holy place (vs. 10)
• 2 Chron 31:10 – the whole tithe wasn’t expected to be consumed, but enough to completely satisfy the appetite. The remainder would be then be used as food until the next tithe.

2nd Tithe - Deut 14:22-29
• Tithes eaten before God (in the city where the temple dwelt) by the individual, his family and his servants
• This is the only time money is mentioned in conjunction with tithing – goods were to be converted into cash and then spent on food and drink if the length of the journey was too long to carry produce, etc.

3rd Tithe - Deut 26:12-15
• 3rd year is the ‘Year of Tithing’
• Preceded by a journey to the Temple where a basket of the first of every fruit was given to the priest and an acknowledgement of their deliverance from Egypt (:5 - :10)
• Tithes were left at home (“within the gates”) for the poor, etc.
• After the tithes had been distributed, they were required to announce to God they had observed all the required laws, ending with a prayer for God’s continued blessing.


So, the Jews actually are taxed 30%. Some preachers today don't understand that if they were really teaching tithing they'd need go for the other 20% as well. It's all nonsense because a lot of that very tithe is supposed to go back to the givers! They'll never tell their flock that!

Now, if anything, going by the letter of the law, only 1/3 of the tithes should be going to "priests" (pastors, church, etc.). The other 2/3 should be divided up equally between ourselves and the less fortunate. So if we've got $10 in our pocket on a Sunday morning, according to OT law, we should be dishing out $3 for the church, keeping $3 for ourselves and using it to celebrate God's blessings in our lives, and then giving $3 to a recently widowed friend, for example.

But churches don't tell you this because they want the WHOLE $10 for themselves.

Therefore, using Scripture as our guide and evidence, we know tithing WAS NOT
...a means to provide financially for priests
...a time to give money
...only for priests
...intended for anyone other then the recipients listed (Levites, Levitcal priests, fatherless, poor, widows, etc.)

By extension, tithing WAS:
...a means to provide sustenance for those who couldn’t or weren’t supposed to provide for themselves
...an opportunity to celebrate the blessings of God

So should tithes be collected today? Most definitely not.

1. First and foremost, the old law is of no effect, having been done away with by Christ;
2. The Temple doesn’t exist today. Therefore, the commandment to eat the tithe in the presence of God is impossible to follow;
3. The lineage of the Levites has been lost. Therefore, tithing to provide for the Levites and priests is impossible;
4. Only the increase of the field was tithable. Tithing with money is a foreign concept in Scripture, even in the NT.
5. Much like circumcision, keeping the Sabbath, fasting, etc. tithing was an OT commandment never repeated by Christ or the apostles in the NT.

Instead, our commandment today is to give freely what we're able. Whether this is 10%, 4%, $20 once a month or through the giving of clothing, food, time, energy, etc., it's entirely up to the individual. The mentality behind N.T. giving is this: 2 Corinthians 9:7 "Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver."

Any church or church leader who requires its members to tithe is at best not well-versed in Scripture or at worst a money-hungry, greedy power-monger. In looking at Scripture, there is absolutely no excuse whatsoever why anyone should be required to give a portion of their income to "help their church". It's disgusting behaviour in the worst sense possible because it's mostly being done by people who know better in the name of God.

BOTTOM LINE: We are to be led by the Holy Spirit to freely speak, act, share and give according to how Christ and His apostles have taught us in the Word. :)
 
GazzaQueen said:
I heard he blew up an ancient giant statue of Buddha, and tore down Confederate flags and memorial statues because they offended him.
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No - that was humanity that offended him. I believe you have such a minority even in your country, Ug. The confederate racists did not belong to it, obviously
 
christiefan915 said:
What does Jesus say about tax cheats? Mark 12:17 And Jesus said unto them, Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and unto God the things that are God's.

What does Pope Francis say about the poor?

54. Almost without being aware of it, we end up being incapable of feeling compassion at the outcry of the poor, weeping for other people's pain, and feeling a need to help them, as though all this were someone else's responsibility and not our own. The culture of prosperity deadens us; we are thrilled if the market offers us something new to purchase. In the meantime, all those lives stunted for lack of opportunity seem a mere spectacle; they fail to move us.

57. I encourage financial experts and political leaders to ponder the words of [Saint John Chrysostom], one of the sages of antiquity: "Not to share one's wealth with the poor is to steal from them and to take away their livelihood. It is not our own goods which we hold, but theirs.

What does He say about theft?
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GazzaQueen said:
To love each other. As a proponent of killing innocent humans, you stand opposite His teachings, as well.

You're a CINO.
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I've never seen one bit of love, sympathy, empathy or consideration in anything you post. You come across as 100% sullen and angry 100% of the time.
 
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