California and Universal Heath Care

cawacko

Well-known member
Doesn't look like this is going to be happening here.




The price tag on universal health care is in, and it’s bigger than California’s budget


The price tag is in: It would cost $400 billion to remake California’s health insurance marketplace and create a publicly funded universal heath care system, according to a state financial analysis released Monday.

California would have to find an additional $200 billion per year, including in new tax revenues, to create a so-called “single-payer” system, the analysis by the Senate Appropriations Committee found. The estimate assumes the state would retain the existing $200 billion in local, state and federal funding it currently receives to offset the total $400 billion price tag.

The cost analysis is seen as the biggest hurdle to creating a universal system, proposed by Sens. Ricardo Lara, D-Bell Gardens, and Toni Atkins, D-San Diego.

t remains a long-shot bid. Steep projected costs have derailed efforts over the past two decades to establish such a health care system in California. The cost is higher than the $180 billion in proposed general fund and special fund spending for the budget year beginning July 1.

Employers currently spend between $100 billion to $150 billion per year, which could be available to help offset total costs, according to the analysis. Under that scenario, total new spending to implement the system would be between $50 billion and $100 billion per year.

“Health care spending is growing faster than the overall economy ... yet we do not have better health outcomes and we cover fewer people,” Lara said at Monday’s appropriations hearing. “Given this picture of increasing costs, health care inefficiencies and the uncertainty created by Congress, it is critical that California chart our own path.”

The idea behind Senate Bill 562 is to overhaul California’s insurance marketplace, reduce overall health care costs and expand coverage to everyone in the state regardless of immigration status or ability to pay. Instead of private insurers, state government would be the “single payer” for everyone’s health care through a new payroll taxing structure, similar to the way Medicare operates.

Lara and Atkins say they are driven by the belief that health care is a human right and should be guaranteed to everyone, similar to public services like safe roads and clean drinking water. They seek to rein in rising health care costs by lowering administrative expenses, reducing expensive emergency room visits, and eliminating insurance company profits and executive salaries.

In addition to covering undocumented people, Lara said the goal is to expand health access to people who, even with insurance, may skip doctor visits or stretch out medications due to high copays and deductibles.

“Doctors and hospitals would no longer need to negotiate rates and deal with insurance companies to seek reimbursement,” Lara said.

Insurance groups, health plans and Kaiser Permanente are against the bill. Industry representatives say California should focus on improving the Affordable Care Act. Business groups, including the California Chamber of Commerce, have deemed the bill a “job-killer.”

“A single-payer system is massively, if not prohibitively expensive,” said Nick Louizos, vice president of legislative affairs for the California Association of Health Plans.

“It will cost employers and taxpayers billions of dollars and result in significant loss of jobs in the state,” the Chamber of Commerce said in its opposition letter.

Underlying the debate is uncertainty at the federal level over what President Donald Trump and the Republican-controlled Congress will do with Obamacare. The House Republican bill advanced earlier this month would dismantle it by removing its foundation – the individual mandate that requires everyone to have coverage or pay a tax penalty.

Republican-led efforts to repeal and replace Obamacare is fueling political support for the bill, Atkins said at a universal health care rally this past weekend in Sacramento hosted by the California Nurses Association, a co-sponsor.


“This is a high-ticket expense ... We have to figure out how to cover everyone and work on addressing the costs in the long-term – that’s our challenge,” Atkins said. “I’m optimistic.”

The bill has to get approval on the Senate floor by June 2 to advance to the Assembly. A financing plan is underway, which could suggest diverting money employers pay for workers’ compensation insurance to a state-run coverage system.

Lara said he believes California can and should play a prominent role in improving people’s lives.

“We can do better,” he said.


http://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article151960182.html
 
A good article analyzing the issues with this proposal. I love Jake Novak's tweet: "Math is a science, and that makes liberals the ultimate science deniers"




Democrats' single-payer health-care dream just became a nightmare



Maybe we should rename so-called single payer health care and call it "single slayer."

Because as the politicians in California just found out, providing government paid-for health care isn't just expensive, it's more expensive than everything else... combined.

That's what a new study done by California's state senate determined this week. Here are the very ugly numbers:

The annual price tag for single payer health care in the Golden State would be a whopping $400 billion.

The total amount of money allocated for the California state budget for the coming fiscal year is $179.5 billion
TILT!

Okay, that "TILT!" part wasn't officially a mathematical or economic term. But you get the idea. Even with the $200 billion California currently gets from federal and other sources for its health costs, the state would still have to more than double its entire budget to cover the additional costs of providing universal health care.

The study tried to be a bit more optimistic, noting that private employers currently pay between $100 and $150 billion per year to provide health insurance for their workers and hypothesizing that money "could" be made available to the single payer plan. But that assumes those employers and employees would be okay with choosing a government-run option instead of their private insurance.

Yeah, none of that is going to work.

The good news is that this study wasn't conducted by some right wing or libertarian group, but the Democrat super majority controlled California state legislature. And that means the harsh realities of what it costs to provide this long-held dream of the liberal Democrats in America can finally start being debunked in favor of more workable options.

Let's stop here for a second and clarify something that's been lost in the eternally annoying debate about whether health care is a right or a privilege. The only human right connected to health care that isn't ruinous to all other rights and responsibilities is the right of an urgently injured or dying person to get emergency care, no questions initially asked.

Once that care is administered, the care givers and/or those who paid for the care have a right to ask for some kind of payment. This is a basic ethical truth that, thanks to the bean counters in Sacramento, now has even more economic truth to back it up.

Okay, let's get back to some other realities. We now have comprehensive proof that providing government paid health care would sacrifice all those other core rights that the left, right, and just about everyone in the middle believes in.

Let's start with K-12 and higher education, which California currently spends more than it does on health care according to the state's own itemized budget figures.

So we must ask: Is it worth it to sacrifice our children's education for single payer health care?

Then you'd have to do some serious cutting to the billions the state spends to protect natural resources and the environment. The right to live in a world free of the horrors of climate change is also a right a lot of people in the same Democratic Party keep telling us is the most important thing.

So we must ask: Is it worth it to sacrifice our environment for single payer health care?

And then there's the legal right to having... legal rights. Right now, California spends about $121 billion each year to keep the judicial system, police, and jails open and running.

So we must ask: Is it worth it to sacrifice our public safety for single payer health care?

Take your time to answer, but that's the thing about rights. It's great when we commit to providing and protecting a large number of them in theory. But what do you do when one right crowds out or even cancels out another?

The simple answer is that some of those rights need to be prioritized and even rationed. Unless of course, we stop talking so much about rights and more about responsibilities. And right now, the California government may want to take the responsibility for everyone's health care for the political power it will give the state, but it certainly cannot afford it.

And this report should also stop the incessant argument from the left that single payer somehow saves money. It certainly doesn't save the state money. And even if a state like California would make the outrageous decision to double its taxes and other fees to somehow cover the cost of single payer, that would cost the private sector billions of dollars in lost income and jobs.

Health care costs are always hard to control because of the constancy of demand. But instead of spreading the cost around and thinning it out, single payer concentrates it to the government to the detriment of everything else that government and society want to achieve.

It's understandable why so much of the public is afraid of a more free market health care system. Most Americans get a weak economic education as it is, and those who do often get one that's biased against the free market.

But now California has given the public solid reasons to really fear single payer because it's obvious how much we'd all have to sacrifice to get it. Those who want more government paid health care must now be forced to explain what other key rights and expenditures need to be sacrificed for that dream.

Meanwhile, free market advocates need to seize on this California news as well and explain how the private sector can provide care without bankrupting its customers.

No matter where the debate goes from there, at least now we're forced to stick to the real numbers. At least the government of California has adequately provided that.


http://www.cnbc.com/2017/05/24/cali...-health-care-is-too-expensive-commentary.html
 
CAlifornia has no chance of any sound business ideas, programs that pay for themselves or anything else resembling fiscal responsibility until they change the political guard.
Liberals give too much stuff away
 
:0) Strange, but not really, how most of the developed world can provide universal healthcare to their citizens, but somehow, we can't figure it out.

It's just too hard. :0(

The U.S. stands almost entirely alone among developed nations that lack universal health care
mf%20healthcaremap%20p-thumb-615x314-91612.jpg
 
we also stand nearly alone as the prime destination of anyone seeking the best medical care on the planet.
hmmm, maybe there's a connection

for God sakes think before you speak man
 
we also stand nearly alone as the prime destination of anyone seeking the best medical care on the planet.
hmmm, maybe there's a connection

for God sakes think before you speak man

For people who claim to be "progressive" liberals keep pushing the same tired programs

Poor Sambo BAC can't take care of himself
 
:0) Strange, but not really, how most of the developed world can provide universal healthcare to their citizens, but somehow, we can't figure it out.

It's just too hard. :0(

The U.S. stands almost entirely alone among developed nations that lack universal health care
mf%20healthcaremap%20p-thumb-615x314-91612.jpg

thats because we still pay full price for drugs. price controls are needed.
 
In fairness there is a slot here for single payer, but it will be expensive at first.
But it's all expensive, we may very well be headed for single payer if issues of pre existing conditions, mandated coverage, drug prices to name a few are not solved.
 
That is indeed part of the problem.

i wrote before that it is impossible to get a good healthcare system because of GIGO or garbage in garbage out. The input is garbage because the costs are too high therefore whatever output whether obamacare or trumpcare is going to be garbage.
 
i wrote before that it is impossible to get a good healthcare system because of GIGO or garbage in garbage out. The input is garbage because the costs are too high therefore whatever output whether obamacare or trumpcare is going to be garbage.

Remove two words from Medicare .. 'over 65'

Healthcare blueprint done.
 
:0) Strange, but not really, how most of the developed world can provide universal healthcare to their citizens, but somehow, we can't figure it out.

It's just too hard. :0(

The U.S. stands almost entirely alone among developed nations that lack universal health care
mf%20healthcaremap%20p-thumb-615x314-91612.jpg

We saw how pissed people were when the gov't lied about being able to keep our doctors. When they see taxes go up and the level of service they receive go down, which would happen with single payer, we'll see the anger go to a whole other level.
 
drug costs will still be high.

True .. that's where Congress steps in and steps up to control the costs.

Consider this ...

Iraq war cost: $6 trillion. What else could have been done?

We spent about $550 billion on Medicare last year. Six trillion bucks would fund our healthcare coverage for seniors and disabled people for roughly a decade.

Federal spending for Medicaid, the healthcare program for low-income people, ran about $250 billion last year. So $6 trillion represents nearly 20 years of funding.

The federal government spends an estimated $524 billion on public elementary and secondary school systems annually. With $6 trillion, you're looking at a massive infusion of cash into our cash-strapped schools over a number of years.

The Environmental Protection Agency had a budget of about $9 billion last year. With $6 trillion, you could run the agency that protects Mother Earth for more than 600 years
http://articles.latimes.com/2013/mar/18/business/la-fi-mo-iraq-war-cost-20130318

It's not that we can't do it .. it's matter of priorities.
 
We saw how pissed people were when the gov't lied about being able to keep our doctors. When they see taxes go up and the level of service they receive go down, which would happen with single payer, we'll see the anger go to a whole other level.

Same noise said about Obamacare .. and yes, there is anger .. directed at those who want to take it away.
 
True .. that's where Congress steps in and steps up to control the costs.

Consider this ...

Iraq war cost: $6 trillion. What else could have been done?

We spent about $550 billion on Medicare last year. Six trillion bucks would fund our healthcare coverage for seniors and disabled people for roughly a decade.

Federal spending for Medicaid, the healthcare program for low-income people, ran about $250 billion last year. So $6 trillion represents nearly 20 years of funding.

The federal government spends an estimated $524 billion on public elementary and secondary school systems annually. With $6 trillion, you're looking at a massive infusion of cash into our cash-strapped schools over a number of years.

The Environmental Protection Agency had a budget of about $9 billion last year. With $6 trillion, you could run the agency that protects Mother Earth for more than 600 years
http://articles.latimes.com/2013/mar/18/business/la-fi-mo-iraq-war-cost-20130318

It's not that we can't do it .. it's matter of priorities.

i dont think you understand how many people will be unemployed if you derail the military industrial complex.
 
the numbers don't work; this wasn't some right wing group running these numbers in California either

Same noise about Obamacare.

We spend trillions upon trillions of dollars on needless wars killing people .. including innocent women and children.

Try life.
 
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