Former US Ambassador to Russia: we're "Out-Russsianing the Russians"

anatta

100% recycled karma
One of the things Russian leadership is known for is not just their dezinformatsiya. campaigns
but their internal paranoia about each other. Many purges were based on this extreme distrust of everyone else.
Politics is dovetailing with paranoia to produce outfrenzied "out Russianing the Russian
^ my comments
++
During the 2016 campaign, Donald J. Trump’s second campaign chairman, Paul Manafort, had regular communications with his longtime associate — a former Russian military translator in Kiev who has been investigated in Ukraine on suspicion of being a Russian intelligence agent.

At the Republican National Convention in July, J. D. Gordon, a former Pentagon official on Mr. Trump’s national security team, met with the Russian ambassador, Sergey Kislyak, at a time when Mr. Gordon was helping keep hawkish language on Russia’s conflict with Ukraine out of the party’s platform.

And Jason Greenblatt, a former Trump Organization lawyer and now a special representative for international negotiations at the White House, met last summer with Rabbi Berel Lazar, the chief rabbi of Russia and an ally of Russia’s president, Vladimir V. Putin.

In a Washington atmosphere supercharged by the finding of the intelligence agencies that Mr. Putin tried to steer the election to Mr. Trump, as well as continuing F.B.I. and congressional investigations, a growing list of Russian contacts with Mr. Trump’s associates is getting intense and skeptical scrutiny.


Democrats see suspicious connections and denials as part of a pattern that belies Mr. Trump’s adamant insistence that he and his associates “have nothing to do with Russia.” The president’s supporters say innocuous encounters, routine for any incoming presidential team, are being treated for political reasons as somehow subversive.

Mr. Trump denounced the furor over Russian connections on Thursday as a “total witch hunt” — but it may not have helped his case that the Russian foreign minister, Sergey V. Lavrov, echoed his words on Friday, saying, “This all looks like a witch hunt.”

On Friday, Mr. Trump posted a picture on Twitter of a meeting between Mr. Putin and Senator Chuck Schumer of New York, the Democratic leader, and wrote that “we should start an immediate investigation into @SenSchumer and his ties to Russia and Putin.”

In fact, vigorous reporting by multiple news media organizations is turning up multiple contacts between Trump associates and Russians who serve in or are close to Mr. Putin’s government. There have been courtesy calls, policy discussions and business contacts, though nothing has emerged publicly indicating anything more sinister. A dossier of allegations on Trump-Russia contacts, compiled by a former British intelligence agent for Mr. Trump’s political opponents, includes unproven claims that his aides collaborated in Russia’s hacking of Democratic targets.

Current and former American officials have said that phone records and intercepted calls show that members of Mr. Trump’s 2016 presidential campaign and other Trump associates had repeated contacts with senior Russian intelligence officials in the year before the election.

Former diplomats and Russia specialists say it would have been absurd and contrary to American interests for the Trump team to avoid meetings with Russians, either during or since the campaign.

John R. Beyrle, the United States ambassador to Moscow from 2008 to 2012, said he feared that “we’re beginning to out-Russian the Russians” by treating all contacts as suspicious. When he returns to Russia now, he said, “this real anti-Western, anti-American frenzy” prompts some old acquaintances to refuse to meet him because they worry about being tagged as too friendly to the United States.
That’s the last behavior we should model — that simply meeting with a Russian official is wrong, without any knowledge of what was said,” Mr. Beyrle said.
In a possible sign that Mr. Trump hopes to put behind him the impression that he is an uncritical admirer of Mr. Putin, he is expected to name Fiona Hill, a respected Brookings scholar, to the top Russia post at the National Security Council, according to administration officials.

Ms. Hill, who served as national intelligence officer for Russia and Eurasia from 2006 to 2009, is viewed as a Putin skeptic, if not as outspoken in her criticism of the Russian leader as are some other academics. Angela Stent, a Russia expert at Georgetown, said Ms. Hill was “realistic about Putin” and praised the 2013 book she wrote with Clifford G. Gaddy, “Mr. Putin: Operative in the Kremlin,” as the best biography of the Russian leader.

Mr. Gordon, the former Pentagon official, portrayed his meeting with Mr. Kislyak at the Republican convention — first reported by USA Today — as similarly unremarkable. After a panel discussion, he said, he spoke briefly with “dozens of ambassadors and senior diplomats” including Mr. Kislyak. During a brief chat with the ambassador, Mr. Gordon said, he “repeated some of the points made by the campaign on the importance of improving relations with Russia” but did not get into substantive policy matters.



At a meeting to draft the Republican platform, Mr. Gordon, representing Mr. Trump’s views, opposed a delegate who wanted to call for providing “lethal defensive weapons” to Ukraine. Mr. Gordon said that proposal “was soundly defeated by the other delegates in the national security subcommittee meeting.”


There was no connection, he insisted, between his chat with Mr. Kislyak and the platform language. “Unfortunately some in the media have repeatedly tried to connect the dots where there was nothing to connect,” he said.

The case of Konstantin V. Kilimnik, who was previously the Kiev manager of Mr. Manafort’s consulting company, Davis Manafort International, is more complicated. A dual citizen of Russia and Ukraine, Mr. Kilimnik worked years ago as a translator in the Russian military. He was hired by Mr. Manafort in 2005 after he was dismissed from the Moscow office of the International Republican Institute, an American democracy-building group, amid concerns that he was informing on its activities, according to a former employee, who said he could not speak publicly about personnel matters.

From August until December of last year, Mr. Kilimnik was at least formally under investigation in Ukraine on suspicion of ties to Russian spy agencies, according to documents from Ukraine’s Parliament and the prosecutor general. A defense lawyer and a former Ukrainian prosecutor characterized the investigation as unserious and politically motivated, and the inquiry closed without charges against Mr. Kilimnik.

Mr. Kilimnik, in an interview in Kiev, said he had never been questioned by Ukrainian law enforcement over connections to Russian spy agencies. “If there were any truth to me talking to any security service in the world, they would arrest me,” he said.

In a recent interview, Mr. Manafort said he thought there was no chance Mr. Kilimnik was a Russian agent. In their phone calls last summer, he said, the two men discussed a range of matters — including news media reports that Russia was behind the hacking of Democratic targets. But at the time, he said, he and other Trump campaign officials had no idea who was responsible for the cyberattacks.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/03/...n-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0
 
soo. weeks and weeks, and leek and leeks later where are we? back to the same.

Russia ( supposedly/likely) hacked the DNC and Podesta Emails..nothing new,, except frenzied partisanship-\tothe point of "out-Russianing the Russians"
 
Drink up, annie.

tumblr_lwa1xr2sIa1r4slawo1_500.gif


Quench it good.
 
soo. weeks and weeks, and leek and leeks later where are we? back to the same.

Russia ( supposedly/likely) hacked the DNC and Podesta Emails..nothing new,, except frenzied partisanship-\tothe point of "out-Russianing the Russians"

Don't forget to mention the part about using their little buddy Assange and WikiLeaks to selectively release the contents in a steady, relentless drip, knowing the psychological effect it would have on certain undecided voters.

Because failing to mention that would just be too convenient for an agenda pushing hack on a message board.

Annie.
 
Don't forget to mention the part about using their little buddy Assange and WikiLeaks to selectively release the contents in a steady, relentless drip, knowing the psychological effect it would have on certain undecided voters.
Because failing to mention that would just be too convenient for an agenda pushing hack on a message board.

Annie.
Originally Posted by anatta
soo. weeks and weeks, and leek and leeks later (months and months for NOMAD) where are we? back to the same.
...
 
Don't forget to mention the part about using their little buddy Assange and WikiLeaks to selectively release the contents in a steady, relentless drip, knowing the psychological effect it would have on certain undecided voters.

Because failing to mention that would just be too convenient for an agenda pushing hack on a message board.

Annie.


The 1980's are calling. They want their foreign policy back.
 
Don't forget to mention the part about using their little buddy Assange and WikiLeaks to selectively release the contents in a steady, relentless drip, knowing the psychological effect it would have on certain undecided voters.

Because failing to mention that would just be too convenient for an agenda pushing hack on a message board.

Annie.

That speculation would be interesting if you could point to even one,

of the leaked DNC emails would have the effect of altering undecided voters minds.....just one.
 
That speculation would be interesting if you could point to even one,

of the leaked DNC emails would have the effect of altering undecided voters minds.....just one.
they were hilarious.
that multi-billion $ big donor driven campaign of hers and they were still searching for a "message"
What the Clintonistas fail to admit to is she had a nothing-burger of a message.

She was entitled -she wouldn't deign to campaign in her "blue wall" states of MI and WI .
She thought insulting our intelligence with her serial lying about her emails didn't matter.

All she said for the last couple months was she wasn't Trump -she had nothing to offer but Identity Politics.

Then she lost. It blew the Democrats minds -so they scapegoat the Russian for her loss;
as if the Podesta Emails showed anything but confusion and bitchin' in her juggernaut campaign.

She lost it her own damn self because she was a crappy candidate with no message
 
Don't forget to mention the part about using their little buddy Assange and WikiLeaks to selectively release the contents in a steady, relentless drip, knowing the psychological effect it would have on certain undecided voters.

Because failing to mention that would just be too convenient for an agenda pushing hack on a message board.

Annie.
I'll mention it. IF it altered the outcome of the election (hypothetical conjecture) we owe Wikileaks a robust "thank you " for exposing what the DNC and Podesta obviously didn't want us to see because it might would alter outcome of the election if we all knew the truth about that den of thieves.
 
Oh the poor, all powerful administration, constantly badgered by the evil opposition! If only we could get rid of the opposition, then we'd have true democracy!
 
I'll mention it. IF it altered the outcome of the election (hypothetical conjecture) we owe Wikileaks a robust "thank you " for exposing what the DNC and Podesta obviously didn't want us to see because it might would alter outcome of the election if we all knew the truth about that den of thieves.

The E-Mails showed Podesta to be an unusually honest politician. Just imagine all the bestiality's that would've emerged if we had opened up Trump's emails. Illegally opening up only one sides emails, and thus exposing all of their internal strategic notes for exploitation by the others, does not make for a healthy democracy. People celebrating this illegal action are killing democracy. Nothing is above the law - not Russian hackers who want to subvert our election and elect Trump, not Trump, not anyone. You're an evil person who hates democracy and law, and wants to establish Trump as eternal arbitrary dictator. Just kill yourself you evil monster.

You're a Republican, and therefore you're a terrorist, and deserve to be executed for terrorism.
 
Last edited:
Don't forget to mention the part about using their little buddy Assange and WikiLeaks to selectively release the contents in a steady, relentless drip, knowing the psychological effect it would have on certain undecided voters.

Because failing to mention that would just be too convenient for an agenda pushing hack on a message board.

Annie.
Because there's no way they didn't also have key Republican info as well...no doubt the angst over the fact that the orange buffoon was going to win the nomination. Probably plots to keep it from happening, too.
 
That speculation would be interesting if you could point to even one,

of the leaked DNC emails would have the effect of altering undecided voters minds.....just one.
Silly child. Most Indies would have voted for Bernie. The back door plots to keep Bernie from getting the nomination kept many key demographics home on election day.
 
they were hilarious.
that multi-billion $ big donor driven campaign of hers and they were still searching for a "message"
What the Clintonistas fail to admit to is she had a nothing-burger of a message.

She was entitled -she wouldn't deign to campaign in her "blue wall" states of MI and WI .
She thought insulting our intelligence with her serial lying about her emails didn't matter.

All she said for the last couple months was she wasn't Trump -she had nothing to offer but Identity Politics.

Then she lost. It blew the Democrats minds -so they scapegoat the Russian for her loss;
as if the Podesta Emails showed anything but confusion and bitchin' in her juggernaut campaign.

She lost it her own damn self because she was a crappy candidate with no message

The American people voted for Clinton, voted for democracy, and voted against evil by an overwhelming margin. The fanatical fascists in the electoral college decided to nullify the election and arbitrarily appoint a candidate of their own choosing instead. And that's how America ceased being a free country in which the people rule themselves, and became a fascist dictatorship where voting is about as good as pissing in the wind. The Republicans will do anything to get power, they will do anything to subvert the will of the people and pursue their evil, monstrous fascist politics. They are the largest terrorist organization in the world, they will be overthrown and punished.
 
The American people voted for Clinton, voted for democracy, and voted against evil by an overwhelming margin. The fanatical fascists in the electoral college decided to nullify the election and arbitrarily appoint a candidate of their own choosing instead. And that's how America ceased being a free country in which the people rule themselves, and became a fascist dictatorship where voting is about as good as pissing in the wind. The Republicans will do anything to get power, they will do anything to subvert the will of the people and pursue their evil, monstrous fascist politics. They are the largest terrorist organization in the world, they will be overthrown and punished.
This is a very interesting point in our history. A near majority of eligible voters chose not to vote....many out of anger. Now, seeing the results of refusing to participate in the rigged game, we're going to see that anger play out in the mid terms, and then in the 2020.

Meanwhile, an inept Congress will continue to play partisan games, and accomplish nothing of value.
 
So its illegal to meet with any foreign govt members while campaigning for pres?

I seem to remember Obama going on a foreign tour and meeting many foreign leaders. Including many in the ME. BEFORE he was elected.

Where was the media outcry?
 
The American people voted for Clinton, voted for democracy, and voted against evil by an overwhelming margin. The fanatical fascists in the electoral college decided to nullify the election and arbitrarily appoint a candidate of their own choosing instead. And that's how America ceased being a free country in which the people rule themselves, and became a fascist dictatorship where voting is about as good as pissing in the wind. The Republicans will do anything to get power, they will do anything to subvert the will of the people and pursue their evil, monstrous fascist politics. They are the largest terrorist organization in the world, they will be overthrown and punished.
OR:
the Dems can go back to being the party of the working class-not the politically correct narrow-casting they
do to drive out the Identity Politics base, and speak to things like jobs/GDP growth/and rectifying trade deals.

Maybe they got the message we're more interested in growing wealth instead of complaining about how an ever smaller pie is being sliced up 'equally'.

Trump is a mess.
Nobody would vote for his dithering New York arrogance of self except for the fact he had a much superior message.
Of course Clinton being a warmongering, serial liar/borderline criminal didn't help either.
 
That speculation would be interesting if you could point to even one,

of the leaked DNC emails would have the effect of altering undecided voters minds.....just one.

Your convenient obtuseness on the matter is obviously very convenient for you.

Let me reiterate.... there was no ONE email or group of emails that did her in. Do you grasp that yet???

As has been repeatedly pointed out to you, though it keeps on bouncing off your thick skull like BB's off of a concrete wall, it was the CUMULATIVE EFFECT of one after another after another after another that caused enough swing voters to develop negative feelings about HC that they otherwise likely would not have had.

The Russians were behind it, their purpose was to throw the election to Trump and it worked.

Now the question to be answered is... were he or members of his campaign staff in on it?

I believe they were.
 
Back
Top