The Case for Military Spending

tsuke

New member
download (6).jpg

https://tsukesthoughts.wordpress.com/2017/03/01/the-case-for-military-spending/

The Case for Military Spending

There is a common consensus that the US spends too much on the military. Today I want to point out that everything is not as simple as it seems and that there maybe a need to increase military spending. While it is true that in terms of hard numbers the US spends more than the next 7 countries combined things break down when we calculate it as a percentage of GDP. In that case Saudi Arabia (10.4%), Israel (5.2 %) and Russia (4.8%) all clock in higher than the US (3.5%). This is compounded by the fact that analysts don't really believe the figures declared by China and Russia and think they spend more than they are showing.

Cost of Living

China and Russia get more bang out of their buck when spending in the military and that may not be a bad thing. Critics will say it is because of waste or inefficiency but it mostly has to do with the cost of living in the various countries. When you look at the military budget 25% is for wages. It is the second largest portion behind operation and maintenance at 43%. The simple fact is when you hire an American soldier he has higher standards that must be met than hiring a Chinese soldier. At a bare minimum you would be paying a salary 10 times what you would pay someone in China. This is actually a very generous comparison as in reality you would most likely be paying 15 to 20 times more. In plain english this means that if you were to give China and the US the same amount of money to spend on the military the Chinese army would be 20 times larger. In addition to the wages the US serviceman would most likely expect better food and facilities than their chinese counterparts. Recall that if the budget is the same the Chinese army would be 20 times larger. In 2014 the US budget was only 4 times that of China. In fact the easiest way to reduce military spending is to reduce the salary of US servicemen to equal that of the Chinese, yet if we do that the military may actually mutiny.

Cost of Equipment

Just as American soldiers cost more than their counterparts American equipment does as well. Any superpower strives to have their arms and equipment produced in country. America would like to have their planes built in the US and the Russians would like to have their planes built in Russia. The security reasons are obvious. If a war were to break out you would like to be sure that there would be no disruptions in your line of supply and if the country producing one of your parts were to go to war with you, you don't want them to feed you defective products. The fact that some of our tank parts are only produced in Germany is actually a cause for concern in some circles.

This does mean we have to pay more for equipment that is almost the same quality. American workers cannot get by on the slave wages given to chinese or even Russian workers. This is not purely a bad thing as the wages to the workers and soldiers act as a local stimulus to their economies. Yet the point is still made that a bigger amount spent does not necessarily equate to more weapons or soldiers.

Historically Low

We are at a historically low point in military spending. During the term of President Reagan military spending was at around 6% and our military doctrine was win 2. At any point in time the US military was supposed to be able to win against 2 major powers at once most likely China and Russia. During the term of President Clinton the doctrine changed to win 1 hold 1. The military was supposed to be able to win one engagement while holding the line in the other. At this point in time we reduced our carrier battle groups from 15 to the 11 we have today and our active military from 3 million to 2.1 million. During the Bush years the strategy changed again to being able to maintain peace in 4 regions fight 2 engagements and win one. Lastly under Obama it changed to the various pivots with the military only focusing on one area at a time.

Under standard military doctrine equipment is supposed to have 30 year life cycles. To save money some equipment were retained even if they cost more to maintain. Some equipment used today was made in the 1950's or 1960's. The f-15's were due to be replaced as well but due to costs were kept instead of upgrading to the f-20's and now has increased maintainence costs. Even the popular a-10 warthog was supposed to be retired years ago but was kept past its expiration date.

Not all Bad

I am not definitively saying that military spending needs to be increased. It is just as simple as everyone makes it out to be. Aside from providing defense military spending also allows us to hire more soldiers which then spend the money in their local communities. Building more goods also allows us to redirect those new factories to districts in need which create good paying jobs for them. Aside from the military applications military spending is also a stimulus. Redirecting labor to soldiering also forces companies to compete more competitively for existing labor raising wages there.
 
"There is a common consensus that the US spends too much on the military." t #1

The U.S. is a member of a military alliance of ~28 nations, named NATO.
The NATO membership guideline is reportedly 2% GDP military spending.
Several NATO member nations do not meet this criterion.
The U.S. has been exceeding it for many many years.

While some will acknowledge that the U.S. spends more on military than any other NATO member nation, not many will openly admit that the U.S. spends more on military than all other 27 NATO member nations COMBINED !!

So what?

While we're placing the lives of our countrymen at mortal risk in such hot-spots as the strait of Hormuz, where two of our U.S. Navy vessels were recently captured, and their crews held captive by the Iranians,
the other 27 NATO member nations are enjoying lower per capita cost health care, better maintained roadways, safer bridges, safer drinking water, etc.

How do you want to slice the pie?
If $10% is spent on the $U.S. $military, that leaves $90% of the budget for everything else.
An easy way to shave that 90% down even more is to increase our $military $spending, PRECISELY what President Trump has proposed.

There's no more extravagant waste than a 2nd rate military. Gen. Horner

We OBVIOUSLY need not merely a robust military, but a U.S. military robust enough to repel any and all threats, and preserve our sovereignty for perpetuity. No question.

BUT !!

If $X.oo will accomplish that, then spending $X.01 is a penny wasted.

df61544e691694769beb98a7fa3b0bcb9b927b0.JPG


I'm not quibbling partisan hypotheticals here. And Trump knows it. That's why he's proposed a $Trillion $Dollar infrastructure investment. Hmmmm what do you know? Does it look all that dissimilar to Bush's $TARP, or Obama's "economic $stimulus"?
I believe Trump even said it would create jobs. You tell me that's not economic stimulus.
Whether the Republicans in congress will play along, I don't know. http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/

We're already $20 $Trillion in $debt. How much worse will it be in 4 years when Trump's administration ends?
 
The average salary in the Chinese army is $826 per month plus $405 per family member.

Not 10-1, sure as fuck not 20-1.
In fact, it isn't even two to one and if the Chinese fellow has a wife and one child he costs more than a US soldier.
Your entire premise is based on an easily refuted lie, as usual.

Furthermore we are not even close to being at war with China. We are their cash cow.

You are such a fucking idiot.
 
The average salary in the Chinese army is $826 per month plus $405 per family member.

Not 10-1, sure as fuck not 20-1.
In fact, it isn't even two to one and if the Chinese fellow has a wife and one child he costs more than a US soldier.
Your entire premise is based on an easily refuted lie, as usual.

Furthermore we are not even close to being at war with China. We are their cash cow.

You are such a fucking idiot.

http://english.chinamil.com.cn/news-channels/china-military-news/2015-01/19/content_6314553.htm

a chinese lt makes around 3000 yuan a month which is about 430$ or 5160 a year. Note that this is an officer not a private. In the US a US private earns anywhere from 23k to 62k.

http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Employer=U.S._Army/Salary
 
http://english.chinamil.com.cn/news-channels/china-military-news/2015-01/19/content_6314553.htm

a chinese lt makes around 3000 yuan a month which is about 430$ or 5160 a year. Note that this is an officer not a private. In the US a US private earns anywhere from 23k to 62k.

http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Employer=U.S._Army/Salary

Incorrect.
As I said, as of 2014 a Chinese soldier is paid $826 plus $406 per family member.
A private in the US is paid $1437 month.
The Chinese soldier makes the same or more if married with one child.

Again, as pointed out, there is no 10-1 or greater ratio, you are an ignorant liar.
The amount you quoted is from 2010
 
It's not a priority.

If we're increasing the largest part of the budget, we're not serious about decreasing the budget or debt.

entitlements is biggest part :P

but thats neither here nor there. at current levels of spending china and/or russia may be getting more men and materiel than we are for the amount that they are spending.
 
Incorrect.
As I said, as of 2014 a Chinese soldier is paid $826 plus $406 per family member.
A private in the US is paid $1437 month.
The Chinese soldier makes the same or more if married with one child.

Again, as pointed out, there is no 10-1 or greater ratio, you are an ignorant liar.
The amount you quoted is from 2010

2015. :)
 
The average salary in the Chinese army is $826 per month plus $405 per family member.

Not 10-1, sure as fuck not 20-1.
In fact, it isn't even two to one and if the Chinese fellow has a wife and one child he costs more than a US soldier.
Your entire premise is based on an easily refuted lie, as usual.

Furthermore we are not even close to being at war with China. We are their cash cow.

You are such a fucking idiot.

Yeah but if a soldier has a wife they get a bunch of additional money (unless they live on base). I went from $1200 take home a month to $3400 a month when I got married, and someone in California or NY will make even more.
 
Easiest way to cut spending is get rid of our overseas bases. American troops for American soil, American money for American citizens.
 
View attachment 3896

https://tsukesthoughts.wordpress.com/2017/03/01/the-case-for-military-spending/

The Case for Military Spending

There is a common consensus that the US spends too much on the military. Today I want to point out that everything is not as simple as it seems and that there maybe a need to increase military spending. While it is true that in terms of hard numbers the US spends more than the next 7 countries combined things break down when we calculate it as a percentage of GDP. In that case Saudi Arabia (10.4%), Israel (5.2 %) and Russia (4.8%) all clock in higher than the US (3.5%). This is compounded by the fact that analysts don't really believe the figures declared by China and Russia and think they spend more than they are showing.

Cost of Living

China and Russia get more bang out of their buck when spending in the military and that may not be a bad thing. Critics will say it is because of waste or inefficiency but it mostly has to do with the cost of living in the various countries. When you look at the military budget 25% is for wages. It is the second largest portion behind operation and maintenance at 43%. The simple fact is when you hire an American soldier he has higher standards that must be met than hiring a Chinese soldier. At a bare minimum you would be paying a salary 10 times what you would pay someone in China. This is actually a very generous comparison as in reality you would most likely be paying 15 to 20 times more. In plain english this means that if you were to give China and the US the same amount of money to spend on the military the Chinese army would be 20 times larger. In addition to the wages the US serviceman would most likely expect better food and facilities than their chinese counterparts. Recall that if the budget is the same the Chinese army would be 20 times larger. In 2014 the US budget was only 4 times that of China. In fact the easiest way to reduce military spending is to reduce the salary of US servicemen to equal that of the Chinese, yet if we do that the military may actually mutiny.

Cost of Equipment

Just as American soldiers cost more than their counterparts American equipment does as well. Any superpower strives to have their arms and equipment produced in country. America would like to have their planes built in the US and the Russians would like to have their planes built in Russia. The security reasons are obvious. If a war were to break out you would like to be sure that there would be no disruptions in your line of supply and if the country producing one of your parts were to go to war with you, you don't want them to feed you defective products. The fact that some of our tank parts are only produced in Germany is actually a cause for concern in some circles.

This does mean we have to pay more for equipment that is almost the same quality. American workers cannot get by on the slave wages given to chinese or even Russian workers. This is not purely a bad thing as the wages to the workers and soldiers act as a local stimulus to their economies. Yet the point is still made that a bigger amount spent does not necessarily equate to more weapons or soldiers.

Historically Low

We are at a historically low point in military spending. During the term of President Reagan military spending was at around 6% and our military doctrine was win 2. At any point in time the US military was supposed to be able to win against 2 major powers at once most likely China and Russia. During the term of President Clinton the doctrine changed to win 1 hold 1. The military was supposed to be able to win one engagement while holding the line in the other. At this point in time we reduced our carrier battle groups from 15 to the 11 we have today and our active military from 3 million to 2.1 million. During the Bush years the strategy changed again to being able to maintain peace in 4 regions fight 2 engagements and win one. Lastly under Obama it changed to the various pivots with the military only focusing on one area at a time.

Under standard military doctrine equipment is supposed to have 30 year life cycles. To save money some equipment were retained even if they cost more to maintain. Some equipment used today was made in the 1950's or 1960's. The f-15's were due to be replaced as well but due to costs were kept instead of upgrading to the f-20's and now has increased maintainence costs. Even the popular a-10 warthog was supposed to be retired years ago but was kept past its expiration date.

Not all Bad

I am not definitively saying that military spending needs to be increased. It is just as simple as everyone makes it out to be. Aside from providing defense military spending also allows us to hire more soldiers which then spend the money in their local communities. Building more goods also allows us to redirect those new factories to districts in need which create good paying jobs for them. Aside from the military applications military spending is also a stimulus. Redirecting labor to soldiering also forces companies to compete more competitively for existing labor raising wages there.
I have nothing against the military, but have you ever worked on a military base? The fraud, waste and abuse , not to mention laziness, is rampant. And that doesn't even factor in what would be outright criminal activity (most of which is done by officers) in the civilian world that gets swept under the rug.
 
I have nothing against the military, but have you ever worked on a military base? The fraud, waste and abuse , not to mention laziness, is rampant. And that doesn't even factor in what would be outright criminal activity (most of which is done by officers) in the civilian world that gets swept under the rug.

im not sure it would be worse there than in any other multinational company of that scale. Ive seen departments buy labor law posters in bulk just to use budget.
 
im not sure it would be worse there than in any other multinational company of that scale. Ive seen departments buy labor law posters in bulk just to use budget.
Could be but I'd assume the reason for so much shenanigans in the military is because they just don't have that much to actually do. Increase the size and there will be proportionally less to do per personnel unit.
A large multinational company wouldn't increase its size if there was no increase in demand. They have stockholders to answer to.
 
Could be but I'd assume the reason for so much shenanigans in the military is because they just don't have that much to actually do. Increase the size and there will be proportionally less to do per personnel unit.
A large multinational company wouldn't increase its size if there was no increase in demand. They have stockholders to answer to.

of course they do. Ive seen managers collect direct reports just for titles. You just have to make up work for them to do.
 
Yeah but if a soldier has a wife they get a bunch of additional money (unless they live on base). I went from $1200 take home a month to $3400 a month when I got married, and someone in California or NY will make even more.

Chinese soldiers are paid an additional $406/month per family member.
 
Win 2? What does that even mean?

An engagement with China is going to go like this:

-We station our carriers off the Chinese coast
-China launches anti-carrier missiles and sinks them
-????
 
The Case for Military Spending

For a nation with $infinite $resources, what rational reason could there be to limit military spending?

- conversely -

For a nation with $finite $resources, what justification is there for more guns than we need, and less butter than we want?

Sanity Check, let's not forget our charter:
PREAMBLE:
We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence [defense], promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.


Defense is mentioned.
So is the general welfare.
So how shall we split that pie?

The following excerpted from U.S. Presidential candidate Libertarian Andre Marrou's
1992 stump speech.

"... the United States is increasingly socialistic under the Democrats & Republicans.
The Democrats are essentially left wing socialists. The Republicans are right wing
socialists. How do you define socialism? More money to government, more power to
government, more bureaucrats, and more regulations, and on and on ... .
The federal government spends 25% of the Gross National Product. State, county, and
local government spend another 22%. That's 47% of the Gross National Product of this
country being spent by the government bureaucrats primarily on themselves. That
leaves 53% in your pockets. You're the people who earn it. 47% vs 53%; how can we
get your 53% up to 90%? One and only one way, we must reduce the 47% the
government spends, down to 10%. That is the only way it can be done. Individual
Liberty is diametrically opposed to governmental power."


I understand.
Big government liberals, aka "Republicans" LOVE to increase spending on increasingly authoritarian government.

It is conservatives that constantly strive to battle back government binging on our $GDP.
Do you suppose the Republicans will ever join us conservatives again?
 
Back
Top