Surprised and happy, Trump obey's.

Jarod said:
You did! Are you now claiming you did not say the power was ABSOLUTE? Did you not say the analysis was SIMPLE? Did you not call into question my ability to analyse Constitutional Law issues because I pointed out it was NOT simple and that the President could NOT violate the Constitution and that there are Constitutional issues?
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I never said the PRESIDENT'S power was absolute. Please go back and read what I wrote. Please. Be honest. When you read that I said that CONGRESS has absolute (plenary and absolute are the same) power and never said the President does you then owe me an apology. If you are honest, and want to restore my faith in the intelligence of attorneys, you can write your apology in a nice separate thread...

My argument from day 1:

Congress has plenary authority, they granted the President specific authority to make an EO like this in US Code 1182 Section 13(f) wherein it states:

(f) Suspension of entry or imposition of restrictions by President
Whenever the President finds that the entry of any aliens or of any class of aliens into the United States would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, he may by proclamation, and for such period as he shall deem necessary, suspend the entry of all aliens or any class of aliens as immigrants or nonimmigrants, or impose on the entry of aliens any restrictions he may deem to be appropriate. Whenever the Attorney General finds that a commercial airline has failed to comply with regulations of the Attorney General relating to requirements of airlines for the detection of fraudulent documents used by passengers traveling to the United States (including the training of personnel in such detection), the Attorney General may suspend the entry of some or all aliens transported to the United States by such airline.
 
"What we know. Congress, per the constitution, has absolute authority over immigration and naturalization, which they then wrote into a statute giving the President authority for pretty much whatever reason he deemed of national security to simply ban immigration or travel from any nation.

My guess is the SCOTUS will rule in his favor."

You cant run from the above quote!


You absolutely owe me an apology. You did not understand my point so you attacked my knowledge, turns out I was CORRECT.
 
"Read what I wrote. You have to be the worst lawyer when it comes to constitutional law I have ever spoken with. Congress has that authority. They then gave this part of it over to the Executive in the statute previously listed above. It isn't that difficult to understand. He is fully within his given authority to write a travel ban from a list of nations, Congress wrote the statute... And they have the power to grant that authority... Simple path, easiest case ever to bring before the SCOTUS that ever existed."

You owe me an apology for this!!!

Clearly I pointed out to you why it was not the easiest case ever, and even you predict a 4-4 ruling.

Clearly I was correct when I said that the power is not ABSOLUTE and that there are things to review here.
 
Jarod said:
Im not the one seriously misunderstanding and simplifying Stare Decisis.
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You aren't the one to explain it in a cohesive, intelligent matter either. You come across 99.9% looking like a complete "strip mall" attorney whose neighbor is a Taqueria on the right and a Baskin and Robbins on the left.

Legalzoom.com gives better advice and they're a fucking document mill.
 
Midas Whale67 said:
You aren't the one to explain it in a cohesive, intelligent matter either. You come across 99.9% looking like a complete "strip mall" attorney whose neighbor is a Taqueria on the right and a Baskin and Robbins on the left.

Legalzoom.com gives better advice and they're a fucking document mill.
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These are not simple concepts. Many don't have the intelligence to understand them, I suspect you fall into that catagory.
 
Jarod said:
"What we know. Congress, per the constitution, has absolute authority over immigration and naturalization, which they then wrote into a statute giving the President authority for pretty much whatever reason he deemed of national security to simply ban immigration or travel from any nation.

My guess is the SCOTUS will rule in his favor."

You cant run from the above quote!


You absolutely owe me an apology. You did not understand my point so you attacked my knowledge, turns out I was CORRECT.
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You actually proved me correct. Did you see the word Congress in what you copied or are you unable to read? Did you notice that there is a restriction on the President in what you quoted?

As I asked, are you honest? My argument hasn't changed and has always been the direct line from Congressional Plenary authority they wrote a law that gave the President this specific authority. I have never stated the President has plenary power, only that he has the authority given in this law to write a proclamation (executive order) that covers this...

If I thought you were honest I would expect you to post the apology now, but really I truly expect you to continue to be dishonest. As I said any true discussion with you on this particular subject is useless, you are in Full Strawman mode. At this point it is useless to continue. I let myself be drawn back in. That was foolish of me.
 
Damocles said:
You actually proved me correct. Did you see the word Congress in what you copied or are you unable to read? Did you notice that there is a restriction on the President in what you quoted?

As I asked, are you honest? My argument hasn't changed and has always been the direct line from Congressional Plenary authority they wrote a law that gave the President this specific authority. I have never stated the President has plenary power, only that he has the authority given in this law to write a proclamation (executive order) that covers this...

If I thought you were honest I would expect you to post the apology now, but really I truly expect you to continue to be dishonest. As I said any true discussion with you on this particular subject is useless, you are in Full Strawman mode. At this point it is useless to continue. I let myself be drawn back in. That was foolish of me.
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I absolutely expect your apology, but that's because I expect people to be honest and truthful and have integrity.

You claimed that there was no argument that could stand against Trump's executive order. When I pointed out that constitutional arguments were still valid, you claimed I did not understand the constitution. I was right you were wrong.
 
Jarod said:
You may be right about what the supreme court will do, but you are sadly mistaken if you think that the president has absolute authority over Immigration and Naturalization. For example an absolute Muslim ban would clearly be unconstitutional as it Would be a violation of the first amendment and the 14th amendment. If you can't see that, you are pretty blind.
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no, YOU are wrong. the executive branch has ABSOLUTE authority until, OR UNLESS, the legislative removes that authority via law or impeaches. you're supposed to be a lawyer that knows the constitution, how do you not know this? the ONLY power that the judiciary has is to nullify convictions based on laws that are glaringly unconstitutional.
 
SmarterthanYou said:
no, YOU are wrong. the executive branch has ABSOLUTE authority until, OR UNLESS, the legislative removes that authority via law or impeaches. you're supposed to be a lawyer that knows the constitution, how do you not know this? the ONLY power that the judiciary has is to nullify convictions based on laws that are glaringly unconstitutional.
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So are you arguing that the president has the authority to violate the Constitution?

I agree that the president now has all the rights Congress once had, I don't agree that the president has absolute authority, no person in the United States government has absolute power.
 
Jarod said:
So are you arguing that the president has the authority to violate the Constitution?

I agree that the president now has all the rights Congress once had, I don't agree that the president has absolute authority, no person in the United States government has absolute power.
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jarod, what you are now experiencing is the inevitable result of decades of partisan power grabbing. This has been facilitated by people on the left and the right that feel their 'president' should have more power. it's something that we Libertarians have been WARNING you brainwashed sheeple about for years. So while you may disagree about A president having absolute authority, the truth is that, at this moment in time, they do.....Until or unless the legislative stops him. But see, this won't happen because then those on the left and right have to face the terrifying prospect of people actually having freedom and liberty like they did 200 years ago. That is where you on the left and right conclude that it's SAFER if the president is a dictator because you trust the government more than you do the people.
 
SmarterthanYou said:
jarod, what you are now experiencing is the inevitable result of decades of partisan power grabbing. This has been facilitated by people on the left and the right that feel their 'president' should have more power. it's something that we Libertarians have been WARNING you brainwashed sheeple about for years. So while you may disagree about A president having absolute authority, the truth is that, at this moment in time, they do.....Until or unless the legislative stops him. But see, this won't happen because then those on the left and right have to face the terrifying prospect of people actually having freedom and liberty like they did 200 years ago. That is where you on the left and right conclude that it's SAFER if the president is a dictator because you trust the government more than you do the people.
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Uh, you didn't answer my question... Are you arguing that the President has the authority to violate the Constitution?
 
Jarod said:
Uh, you didn't answer my question... Are you arguing that the President has the authority to violate the Constitution?
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if the president violates the constitution and NOBODY does anything, then yes...he obviously has the authority. welcome to the results of your pursuit of presidential power.
 
SmarterthanYou said:
if the president violates the constitution and NOBODY does anything, then yes...he obviously has the authority. welcome to the results of your pursuit of presidential power.
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So if someone does question, does he have that power... Cuz you said that power was absolute.
 
Jarod said:
So if someone does question, does he have that power... Cuz you said that power was absolute.
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nobody=an entity with power to stop him. a single senator from vermont or texas isn't going to stop his authority. the majority body, on the other hand........which is why you should be tired of the left vs. right political war.
 
SmarterthanYou said:
nobody=an entity with power to stop him. a single senator from vermont or texas isn't going to stop his authority. the majority body, on the other hand........which is why you should be tired of the left vs. right political war.
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You still wont answer, regardless of if anyone can do anything about it... does he have the legal right to violate the Constitution?
 
Midas Whale67 said:
You aren't the one to explain it in a cohesive, intelligent matter either. You come across 99.9% looking like a complete "strip mall" attorney whose neighbor is a Taqueria on the right and a Baskin and Robbins on the left.

Legalzoom.com gives better advice and they're a fucking document mill.
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I refuse to sit here while you bash Taquerias. You owe me an apology.
 
SmarterthanYou said:
legal right? yes. constitutional right, no. does that answer your question satisfactorily?
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No, how can you have a legal right but not a Constitutional Right? The Constitution is the final say in the law. It is the ultimate law of the land.
 
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