57 story building in SF tilting- this will not end well

Here's another one.

At around the 1 minute mark you can see the explosions and then the top floors collapse on the lower floors and the entire thing comes down on itself.

 
There is a 47 story leaning tower in downtown Miami that's been out of plumb since the day it was completed in 1986.

On the day the contractor turned the building over to the owners, they dropped a plumb bob off of one corner and it was several inches off.

Apparently they've never had further problems with it.
 
How does a building engineered eight years ago have the condition and planning one would expect from a building engineered fifty years ago? It always amazes me, because the proud chronological snob in me always expects newer to be better.

Right, if you've never read about the debacle that is Seattle's Alaskan Way Tunnel project, you will probably get some laughs out of it.

The empire state building was engineered in the 1920's. It is of riveted steel construction with a complex multi-redundant structural system. It was hit by a B-25 head-on in 1945. Minimal damage.

The World Trade Center towers were engineered in the 1970's. They were founded on bedrock, but had a simple bolted structural system: an outer ring of steel H columns, and inner ring of steel columns (surrounding the elevator cores) and light steel "bar joists" between the rings. Each were hit by two fully loaded commercial passenger jets, much larger and faster than the B-25. The buildings took the impacts (predictably) but the fires did them in (also predictably).

The older building was engineered before computers, so the design calculations were all done by hand. Due to it's complexity and redundancy I can't imagine how long that all took. Factor in all the architectural details, the amount of design and the quality of it all seems almost unachievable. The newer buildings, due to their simple design, I could probably do the design calculations in a week using an excel spreadsheet. So to address your point, no, newer is not better. If fact the opposite is normally the case.

Guys like Blackasshole with no science background think that because the towers collapsed within themselves, that proves it was an inside job. I predicted their collapse within a minute of turning the TV on and seeing the scope of the fires. The American Society of Civil Engineers performed a detailed failure analysis and made the same findings.
 
The empire state building was engineered in the 1920's. It is of riveted steel construction with a complex multi-redundant structural system. It was hit by a B-25 head-on in 1945. Minimal damage.

The World Trade Center towers were engineered in the 1970's. They were founded on bedrock, but had a simple bolted structural system: an outer ring of steel H columns, and inner ring of steel columns (surrounding the elevator cores) and light steel "bar joists" between the rings. Each were hit by two fully loaded 737s, much larger and faster than the B-25. The buildings took the impacts (predictably) but the fires did them in (also predictably).

The older building was engineered before computers, so the design calculations were all done by hand. Due to it's complexity and redundancy I can't imagine how long that all took. Factor in all the architectural details, the amount of design and the quality of it all seems almost unachievable. The newer buildings, due to their simple design, I could probably do the design calculations in a week using an excel spreadsheet. So to address your point, no, newer is not better. If fact the opposite is normally the case.

Guys like Blackasshole with no science background think that because the towers collapsed within themselves, that proves it was an inside job. I predicted their collapse within a minute of turning the TV on and seeing the scope of the fires. The American Society of Civil Engineers performed a detailed failure analysis and made the same findings.

Don't airliners that are about to crash, or might crash deliberately dump fuel or fly for longer to burn as much fuel as possible? Why would a large fire caused by a fully fuel laden jet be strange?

Answer, it's not, in fact it is demanded by practical physics

Next knucklehead
 
Don't airliners that are about to crash, or might crash deliberately dump fuel or fly for longer to burn as much fuel as possible? Why would a large fire caused by a fully fuel laden jet be strange?

Answer, it's not, in fact it is demanded by practical physics

Next knucklehead

The fact that they were topped off with fuel is why the terrorists chose cross country, non-stop flights.

They wanted the fireball to be as massive as possible.
 
Don't airliners that are about to crash, or might crash deliberately dump fuel or fly for longer to burn as much fuel as possible? Why would a large fire caused by a fully fuel laden jet be strange?

Answer, it's not, in fact it is demanded by practical physics

Next knucklehead

The only safety feature I'm aware of is TCAS, which alerts the pilot to nearby traffic, and instructs them to climb or descend to create vertical separation. It's law to adhere to your TCAS prompts.
 
The only safety feature I'm aware of is TCAS, which alerts the pilot to nearby traffic, and instructs them to climb or descend to create vertical separation. It's law to adhere to your TCAS prompts.

What the hell are you babbling about? You clearly think that this has some meaning. but it does not, so again stop babbling
 
PS

" Quote Originally Posted by Pablo Martinez View Post
The only safety feature I'm aware of is TCAS, which alerts the pilot to nearby traffic, and instructs them to climb or descend to create vertical separation. It's law to adhere to your TCAS prompts.

"What the hell are you babbling about? You clearly think that this has some meaning. but it does not, so again stop babbling" TF #54


?!
Not only is it logically comprehensible. It appears to me grammatically acceptable. "Where's the beef?"
 
PS

" Quote Originally Posted by Pablo Martinez View Post
The only safety feature I'm aware of is TCAS, which alerts the pilot to nearby traffic, and instructs them to climb or descend to create vertical separation. It's law to adhere to your TCAS prompts.

"What the hell are you babbling about? You clearly think that this has some meaning. but it does not, so again stop babbling" TF #54


?!
Not only is it logically comprehensible. It appears to me grammatically acceptable. "Where's the beef?"

TCAS involves two aircraft about to collide...............it DOES NOT INVOLVE BUILDINGS.

Next knucklehead
 
All the fire actually had to do was heat beams to near melting point. which caused the collapse which once started could not be stopped

strengthcurve.jpg


At 550F steel loses enough strength to collapse.

The perimeter and interior columns were supported laterally by the light steel bar joists. The bar joists are typically 2" angles 1/4" thick! Those things took no time to heat up, the floors sagged so the columns lost support and were pulled in towards each other. It's not hard to visualize what happens next.
 
strengthcurve.jpg


At 550F steel loses enough strength to collapse.

The perimeter and interior columns were supported laterally by the light steel bar joists. The bar joists are typically 2" angles 1/4" thick! Those things took no time to heat up, the floors sagged so the columns lost support and were pulled in towards each other. It's not hard to visualize what happens next.

What people forget is that the first attempt to destroy these buildings was at the base with a truck bomb, that destroyed 7 stories but did not topple the building. So they tried another way and succeeded, all is logical, but not to an illogical mind
 
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