Mother sues to stop Bible classes in West Virginia schools

Jarod said:
I took a comparative World Religion class in High School, likely the best class I took in High School. Loved it, did not change my feelings about Christ.
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It wouldnt change mine either. Im just saying that the demand for things like this is pretty dependent on the community. There are large Jewish populations in New York for example and in many of those public schools the entire student body gets off for jewish holidays same as they get off for Christmas. In my hometown though that would be unheard of.
 
Norah said:
The problem becomes who teaches it that has a good knowledge and appreciation for it and if the demographics support it. In my hometown for example there would be no demand for anything other than Bible lessons, but if you went down to Houston then sure you could expect a demand for those.
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Why would there be no demand? People should not learn about religions other than their own?
 
Norah said:
The problem becomes who teaches it that has a good knowledge and appreciation for it and if the demographics support it. In my hometown for example there would be no demand for anything other than Bible lessons, but if you went down to Houston then sure you could expect a demand for those.
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There are plenty of great textbooks on religious studies. My class was taught by a Quaker. He was very knowledgeable of all the religions we covered.
 
Jarod said:
Why would there be no demand? People should not learn about religions other than their own?
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Enough to justify adding the class, the teacher, and things like that though? It would really depend on the student body. Most schools aren't going to add a class and all that goes into that class for just couple of interested students. It would ultimately turn into an extracurricular club.
 
Jarod said:
There are plenty of great textbooks on religious studies. My class was taught by a Quaker. He was very knowledgeable of all the religions we covered.
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I'm sure there are, but again that depends on the community and the town.
 
Jarod said:
I have no problem with Bible study as long as Koran and Tora lessons are also allowed.
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and what if in a community of say 1000 people, there are no Muslims, no Jews......just 999 Christians and an atheist?......is it okay to let the parents choose where their kids will go?.......
 
domer76 said:
Gotta throw in Satanism and anything else that people can legitimately claim as their religion. That's the can of worms the myopic thumpers can't see.

Regardless, they all violate the Establishment Clause.
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and of course the parents can arrange for teachers for the class?.......
 
Guille said:
Gang rule. Got it.
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no.....totalitarianism.....on the individual parental level......she gets to be the gang ruling her kid......all the other parents get to be the gangs ruling their kids......isn't that how your parents raised you.......or did they have some sort of village do it for them.........
 
Norah said:
Enough to justify adding the class, the teacher, and things like that though? It would really depend on the student body. Most schools aren't going to add a class and all that goes into that class for just couple of interested students. It would ultimately turn into an extracurricular club.
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So, what classes are offered should depend on what classes the students are interested in? They would cancel Algebra and American Lit if that was the case.
 
Norah said:
which point is that? For many rural areas the town only has one elementary school, one middle school, and one high school so the education, the culture, the norms are pretty much with you your whole k-12. I know it was for me.
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And in a small town none of you would have had a problem making to church. But, because it was a small town the minority would number in what...tens instead of tens of thousands?
 
Jarod said:
So, what classes are offered should depend on what classes the students are interested in? They would cancel Algebra and American Lit if that was the case.
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Well no these are electives we are talking about not core classes
 
Norah said:
Well no these are electives we are talking about not core classes
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Good point. I dont have a problem with bible being an elective, if there are standards by which electives are set up by and thus if the same rule applies to a group of people who want Koran study offered, they could get it.
 
Norah said:
As long as its an elective then I lean towards it being ok. I would love for everybody to choose to take bible class to learn about Christ and his sacrifice but I understand that not everybody is a Christian and not everybody cares. As a voluntary elective it leaves the freedom of choice for the student in my opinion without the school forcing a religion on students. If it makes parents feel better they could add a world religion elective as an alternative as well. This is just my opinion though.
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The only people who have a problem are the commies. People of all faiths welcome religious freedom.

The government won't allow it and whenever they start censoring things that the community wants then an alarm should go off in your head.
 
Jarod said:
So, what classes are offered should depend on what classes the students are interested in? They would cancel Algebra and American Lit if that was the case.
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The states board of education should set the curriculum then ensure each student is getting a proper, quality education by way of funding to the school districts. The communities should be permitted to reflect their values in the schools.

Parents shouldn't have to see the values they teach their kids be thrown out by government social engineering commies practicing moral relativism and queer gangster-ism just a few blocks from the home in the community school.
 
Norah said:
The problem becomes who teaches it that has a good knowledge and appreciation for it and if the demographics support it. In my hometown for example there would be no demand for anything other than Bible lessons, but if you went down to Houston then sure you could expect a demand for those.
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I was really busy yesterday when I was in this thread and just didn't have the time to post a long response to this but now I have the time and I think it's important because you bring up a couple of issues which I think cut right to the heart of the matter.

The idea that the teacher should have strong knowledge and appreciation for the material, in this case the Bible. Who is likely to have that knowledge and appreciation of the Bible? A Christian. Can that person teach that class without any bias? I don't think so, maybe some teachers could but if they can't then that's a violation of the establishment clause. This class is part of the curriculum so it really shouldn't matter who teaches the course anyway, there should be a syllabus to follow but then that brings up another problem, if you get someone who is biased against the Bible or Christianity then you're still in violation of the law.

Demand. This isn't a local issue it's a Constitutional issue. What the parents want doesn't matter if what they want is against the law. I'd have no problem with this if it were a club that meets after school even if school staff were involved, in that case I'd be all for a Christian leading that club but that's not what this is even though that's clearly the best way to handle this. Once this was made a class and is being held during the school day even if you're for it you have to admit that Proselytizing is a legitimate concern here in fact I'd say it's likely to occur. How many people do you know who are neutral on the subject of religion or the Bible?
 
Guille said:
I was really busy yesterday when I was in this thread and just didn't have the time to post a long response to this but now I have the time and I think it's important because you bring up a couple of issues which I think cut right to the heart of the matter.

The idea that the teacher should have strong knowledge and appreciation for the material, in this case the Bible. Who is likely to have that knowledge and appreciation of the Bible? A Christian. Can that person teach that class without any bias? I don't think so, maybe some teachers could but if they can't then that's a violation of the establishment clause. This class is part of the curriculum so it really shouldn't matter who teaches the course anyway, there should be a syllabus to follow but then that brings up another problem, if you get someone who is biased against the Bible or Christianity then you're still in violation of the law.

Demand. This isn't a local issue it's a Constitutional issue. What the parents want doesn't matter if what they want is against the law. I'd have no problem with this if it were a club that meets after school even if school staff were involved, in that case I'd be all for a Christian leading that club but that's not what this is even though that's clearly the best way to handle this. Once this was made a class and is being held during the school day even if you're for it you have to admit that Proselytizing is a legitimate concern here in fact I'd say it's likely to occur. How many people do you know who are neutral on the subject of religion or the Bible?
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This is about getting the best quality basic education for the kids. Your government schools are a fail. They are a fail because the governmental educational system is a fail.

Donald Trump wants to return more education to local control which means in some cases, Bibles will return to the schools. If given a choice,parents will opt (tolerate) Bibles to get kids better educated knowing government schools waste too much time indoctrinating kids with social engineering gunk.

And no teacher will be required to be a Biblical scholar but all teachers will be required to excel in educating and not indoctrinating students with social fluff while putting emphasis on laws against community wishes to educate as well as possible.
 
philly rabbit said:
This is about getting the best quality basic education for the kids.
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No it's not, if it were then they wouldn't be wasting valuable class time teaching something the kids are going to be exposed to in their off time anyway.

philly rabbit said:
Your government schools are a fail. They are a fail because the governmental educational system is a fail.
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So of course you want this failing system to teach the Bible?


philly rabbit said:
Donald Trump wants to return more education to local control which means in some cases, Bibles will return to the schools.
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As long as they do within what's allowed by the law then fine. Local control doesn't mean you get to do whatever you want.

philly rabbit said:
If given a choice,parents will opt (tolerate) Bibles to get kids better educated knowing government schools waste too much time indoctrinating kids with social engineering gunk.
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Most parents I know don't want Bibles anywhere near the public schools and why do you keep saying the kids will be better educated? If there's enough time in the day to teach the Bible then I'd rather have the schools bring back Latin instead. Now that's education.

philly rabbit said:
And no teacher will be required to be a Biblical scholar but all teachers will be required to excel in educating and not indoctrinating students with social fluff while putting emphasis on laws against community wishes to educate as well as possible.
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The Bible is social fluff.
 
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