The false promise of "buy American"

sear said:
"yes you are correct on the tank parts,as well as many weapons systems. It's not a security risk." a #17

There are several security risk.

a) If our indispensable supply of ball-bearings come from Jakarta instead of Peoria, then we'll need to provide military defense to Jakarta in addition to that we already provide to Peoria.

b) We not only would then need to defend the physical plant source. We'd also have to defend the transport path and transport vessels, be they boat or bird.

c) We lose quality control, and expose ourselves to sabotage, getting pebbles instead of precision steel parts.
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it's mostly assembly parts -not just the raw parts like ball bearings.
Also we don't need complete reliance on 1 manufacturer source if strategic conditions change, other sources can be used.

The quality control is built into the bidding process -standards . But obviously we do not test every part for assembly
 
cawacko said:
Sorry, unable to copy and paste from phone but this article hits on why Trump's promises or hopes that we buy more 'Made in America' isn't a reality and the downsides to our econony that come with it.


https://www.cato.org/blog/false-promise-buy-american
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The hidden truth? A large economy is not always a good thing.....one can have a huge economy and have it benefit only a certain few within a certain group. That's exactly what's happening today with the world wide economy...the one's getting rich off the import of cheaper goods and services are those at the top of the food chain...those evil ass 1%ers.

In an economy were the majority of the goods and services are home grown.....it benefits the middle class in producing more jobs that are better paying jobs which offsets the cheaper and inferior flood of foreign products that are nothing but cheap flea market knockoffs of US products to begin with.

The peons on the left are the perfect stooge for the blue blood demwits that control the majority of the wealth in this nation. The truth to this message is exactly why Donald J. Trump is now president of the United States.....the world wide economy, that was a product of NAFTA...etc., was in full force in the United States....it worked quite well for those at the top of the food chain the rich got richer...and it worked somewhat for those on the bottom who live off welfare and other government programs....but for the middle class working men and women....it was hell to see the jobs disappear, cheaper wages become a reality in order that companies can compete with the cheap knockoff products coming into the states....the loss of homes, etc.

The end result. A middle class revolution that Mr. Trump tapped into.
 
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a #41

Fine.
I used the "ball bearing" example based on a movie about WWII.

In the 3rd Millennium we're a bit beyond that.

And while as CONSUMERS it's a delight to get our computer chips 5% cheaper by getting them from Buppfupp Egypt, how are we going to enlighten our "smart bombs" if the foreign fabs are preemptively destroyed?

I used to work in semiconductor development.
It's not possible to set up a semiconductor clean room in 3 weeks.
The machines that populate it are extremely specialized:

- apply & bake photo-resist
- UV align & expose
- special acid baths
- R.I.E. machines
- LPCVD
- PECVD
- Ion Implant
- Diffusion Furnaces
- weigh more

In the 3rd Millennium, a world war may be over in 15 minutes. We're not going to have 18 months to put the roof on an empty building.

And the problem with simply inventorying a defensive munitions stockpile is; technology gallops forward at such a spectacular rate, such a huge and $expensive stockpile might be obsolete in 6 months. THEN WHAT ?!
 
anatta said:
it's mostly assembly parts -not just the raw parts like ball bearings.
Also we don't need complete reliance on 1 manufacturer source if strategic conditions change, other sources can be used.

The quality control is built into the bidding process -standards . But obviously we do not test every part for assembly
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Right..the government has never been screwed with inferior parts
 
sear said:
a #41

Fine.
I used the "ball bearing" example based on a movie about WWII.

In the 3rd Millennium we're a bit beyond that.

And while as CONSUMERS it's a delight to get our computer chips 5% cheaper by getting them from Buppfupp Egypt, how are we going to enlighten our "smart bombs" if the foreign fabs are preemptively destroyed?

I used to work in semiconductor development.
It's not possible to set up a semiconductor clean room in 3 weeks.
The machines that populate it are extremely specialized:

- apply & bake photo-resist
- UV align & expose
- special acid baths
- R.I.E. machines
- LPCVD
- PECVD
- Ion Implant
- Diffusion Furnaces
- weigh more

In the 3rd Millennium, a world war may be over in 15 minutes. We're not going to have 18 months to put the roof on an empty building.

And the problem with simply inventorying a defensive munitions stockpile is; technology gallops forward at such a spectacular rate, such a huge and $expensive stockpile might be obsolete in 6 months. THEN WHAT ?!
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from everything i've looked at -and it makes strategic sense-we are only using NATO partners for design and assembly parts.

I think the bigger threat is stopping/starting manufacture according to Congressional whims -or Sequestur like budgeting;
i.e. no real long term planning which has led to the dearth of aviation parts (forcing the military to "the boneyard) for replacements..

I'm confident the strategic analysis is far better then just using supply chains from anywhere-
again it seems to be limited to NATO in everything I see
 
anatta said:
Bernie wanted to end TPP and multi-lateral trade agreements, like Trump. Trump is in favor of new bi-lateral agreements and renegotiating the old multi-lateral ones. Bernie never said that - although it was implied

They are very similar. Trump's new emphasis is "buy/hire American
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The liar talks the talk but doesn't walk the walk.

Donald Trump's vineyard is looking to hire foreign workers to start just days after he's sworn in as president.

In a filing with the U.S. Department of Labor, the Charlottesville, Virginia winery says it will need six workers to work six days a week as farmworkers and laborers. The pay is $10.72 an hour, and the temporary jobs are expected to run from Jan. 31 to June 30.

The vineyard is part of the Trump Winery, which has a hotel and tasting room that are open to the public. The winery, which is run by Trump's son Eric, did not respond to a request for comment about its use of foreign workers. Neither did the Trump transition team.

Trump has vowed repeatedly toclamp down on immigration and make jobs available for Americans. But Trump's various businesses have been granted approval to hire at least 1,256 foreign guest workers over the last 15 years, according to a CNN analysis of Labor Department filings. Since the start of Trump's campaign in June 2015, companies he owns have requested at least 190 foreign visa workers, according to Department of Labor data. The workers were hired on a variety of different U.S. visa programs.

...Records show Mar-a-Lago appears to have done the bare minimum required by law to advertise the jobs to U.S. workers. According to a CNN analysis of hundreds of pages of Labor Department documents, Mar-a-Lago did not place advertisements in the area's largest newspaper. Instead, ads were placed in a local paper with a small circulation. Additionally, the ads were routinely posted for just two days, the minimum required by law.

http://money.cnn.com/2016/12/22/news/companies/trump-foreign-workers/
 
sear said:
44a259045d6bc18697b7bc4ddaaf002acfc7ea0.gif
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I love you buddy!!

It's past midnight here in the tower.

Things otherwise might be a bit lonely.

But your potty mouth invokes the contempt my own siblings devote to me. You make me feel right at home! - SMOOCH -
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:rofl2:
 
tsuke said:
i hope at the very least we buy all parts of our military in the US. As far as I know tanks have some parts made in other countries it seems like a security risk.
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Thats already supposed to be the law.....America First and Buy American isn't really patriotism....its common sense.....
 
cawacko said:
But what you leave out is the cost of jobs lost from exporting. And in a world where we have global supply chains it's almost impossible to fully make something in America
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You're talking about corn wheat exports more than anything else. So we have Monsanto, and Big Agra lobbyists making out like a bandit, at the expense of the entire manufacturing industry.

It's not easy to find the right balance, but we have to start somewhere.
 
cawacko said:
Sorry, unable to copy and paste from phone but this article hits on why Trump's promises or hopes that we buy more 'Made in America' isn't a reality and the downsides to our econony that come with it.


https://www.cato.org/blog/false-promise-buy-american
Click to expand...
He doesn't even buy American, it's laughable! This is just gesturing for the base!

He's up 5 points, so somethings working.

TPP wasn't even going to happen but he will take credit for killing it.
 
christiefan915 said:
The liar talks the talk but doesn't walk the walk.

Donald Trump's vineyard is looking to hire foreign workers to start just days after he's sworn in as president.

In a filing with the U.S. Department of Labor, the Charlottesville, Virginia winery says it will need six workers to work six days a week as farmworkers and laborers. The pay is $10.72 an hour, and the temporary jobs are expected to run from Jan. 31 to June 30.

The vineyard is part of the Trump Winery, which has a hotel and tasting room that are open to the public. The winery, which is run by Trump's son Eric, did not respond to a request for comment about its use of foreign workers. Neither did the Trump transition team.

Trump has vowed repeatedly toclamp down on immigration and make jobs available for Americans. But Trump's various businesses have been granted approval to hire at least 1,256 foreign guest workers over the last 15 years, according to a CNN analysis of Labor Department filings. Since the start of Trump's campaign in June 2015, companies he owns have requested at least 190 foreign visa workers, according to Department of Labor data. The workers were hired on a variety of different U.S. visa programs.

...Records show Mar-a-Lago appears to have done the bare minimum required by law to advertise the jobs to U.S. workers. According to a CNN analysis of hundreds of pages of Labor Department documents, Mar-a-Lago did not place advertisements in the area's largest newspaper. Instead, ads were placed in a local paper with a small circulation. Additionally, the ads were routinely posted for just two days, the minimum required by law.

http://money.cnn.com/2016/12/22/news/companies/trump-foreign-workers/
Click to expand...

Whats your point ?....are you claiming that those jobs are NOT open to anyone BUT foreign workers.....

If its necessary to hire more workers that American won't fill, the only option is to hire others.....

Is how one advertises for workers really pertinent....is the size of the newspaper an employer uses important to you.....
It actually makes perfect sense to use local papers to advertise for local jobs....do you think they should advertise in the NY Times or Hampton Roads Times ?
Would that make you happy.....you pettiness is silly and irrational....
But then it IS from CNN.....
 
Althea said:
You're talking about corn wheat exports more than anything else. So we have Monsanto, and Big Agra lobbyists making out like a bandit, at the expense of the entire manufacturing industry.

It's not easy to find the right balance, but we have to start somewhere.
Click to expand...

Supply chains exist for far more than just corn wheat exports
 
Queen Snowflake said:
He doesn't even buy American, it's laughable! This is just gesturing for the base!

He's up 5 points, so somethings working.

TPP wasn't even going to happen but he will take credit for killing it.
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He doesn't use American steel, nor labor. Irony abounds.
 
cawacko said:
Supply chains exist for far more than just corn wheat exports
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I understand. But NAFTA was all about corn, and it killed Mexico's corn industry. We love to export from the Heartland. We need to find a way to balance that with regaining home grown manufacturing.
 
Althea said:
I understand. But NAFTA was all about corn, and it killed Mexico's corn industry. We love to export from the Heartland. We need to find a way to balance that with regaining home grown manufacturing.
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That's the thing, there's not going to be home grown manufacturing. If it's gone the jobs are not coming back and those companies that do come back won't bring new jobs with them.
 
NOVA said:
Whats your point ?....are you claiming that those jobs are NOT open to anyone BUT foreign workers.....

If its necessary to hire more workers that American won't fill, the only option is to hire others.....

Is how one advertises for workers really pertinent....is the size of the newspaper an employer uses important to you.....
It actually makes perfect sense to use local papers to advertise for local jobs....do you think they should advertise in the NY Times or Hampton Roads Times ?
Would that make you happy.....you pettiness is silly and irrational....
But then it IS from CNN.....
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How could there be jobs Americans won't fill? Maybe you mean the down and dirty jobs Americans think they're too good to do but immigrants appreciate. You have a problem with Americans picking grapes in the vineyard?

You're wrong about the newspaper too. If you want to reach the widest audience you advertise in the largest newspaper, maybe the Sun-Sentinal and not the local Patch.

And finally the statistics are from the Labor Dept., not CNN, you're shooting the messenger here. Not surprised.
 
cawacko said:
That's the thing, there's not going to be home grown manufacturing. If it's gone the jobs are not coming back and those companies that do come back won't bring new jobs with them.
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Which is why prices have to go up via import taxes. Jeans cost $45, not $19.99

It's very hard to compete with foreign labor, when we give health insurance and a much higher wage. But there has to be a way to create labor here, or we're just going to have to fund it with tax dollars via infrastructure, etc.

I tend to agree with you that it isn't coming back. If that's the case, then we have to raise taxes, and let the public sector create jobs.
 
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