Obama’s foreign policy was error after error

anatta

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When Barack Obama moves two miles from 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue to 2446 Belmont Road in Washington’s Kalorama neighborhood, he will live half a mile from 2340 S Street, where Woodrow Wilson spent his three post-presidential years. Wilson’s embittering foreign policy failure was the Senate’s rejection of U.S. participation in the embodiment of Wilsonian aspirations, the League of Nations. Obama leaves office serene because, as he put it, “almost every country on Earth sees America as stronger and more respected today than they did eight years ago.”

Two seemingly unimpressed nations are Russia, which is dismembering a European nation (Ukraine), and China, which is shredding international law by turning the world’s most important waterway, the South China Sea, into militarized Chinese territory.

Obama’s policies that brought America to a pinnacle of admiration, as he sees it, were an amalgam of Wilsonian and anti-Wilsonian elements. Wilson’s grand ambition for the United States was to reorder the world in a way that would make it unnecessary for America to have grand ambitions. He thought America could lead a restful life after strenuous diplomacy had written rules for the game of nations.

Many progressives believe — they take this from the Founders’ favorite philosopher, John Locke, while rejecting his natural-rights teaching — in humanity’s natural sociability. This disposes them to believe that peace among nations is natural and spontaneous, or it would be if other nations would cleanse their minds of the superstitions that prevent them from recognizing the universal validity and demonstrable utility of American principles. These, said Wilson, are shared by “forward looking men and women everywhere” and “every modern nation.” He also said, inconsistently, that “every nation of the world needs to be drawn into the tutelage of America.”

Obama seemed to doubt that America has much to teach the world, beyond post-Iraq modesty — herewith his Wilsonian dimension — and the power of diplomacy’s soft power to tame the world. Although neither the English nor the American nor the Russian nor the Spanish nor the Chinese civil war was ended by negotiations, Obama thought the especially vicious and complex civil war in Syrian’s sectarian and tribal society could be ended diplomatically. Russian President Vladimir Putin picked a side and helped it win.

The fact that the world is more disorderly and less lawful than when Obama became president is less his fault than the fault of something about which progressives are skeptical — powerful, unchanging human nature. Humans are, as Job knew, born unto trouble as the sparks fly upward: They are desirous and competitive, and hence are prone to conflict.

And to causing progressives to furrow their brows in puzzlement. In 2014, when Russia annexed Crimea, Secretary of State John F. Kerry was disappointed with Putin, saying, more in sorrow than in anger: “You just don’t in the 21st century behave in 19th-century fashion.” If you do, you place yourself on (in one of Obama’s favorite phrases) “the wrong side of history.”

Make that History, which, in progressives’ lexicon, is a proper noun, an autonomous thing with a mind, or at least a logic, of its own. Kerry’s reprimand of Putin expressed a progressive’s certitude about progress: The passage of time should ineluctably improve the comportment of nations. Which is why in 1911, the renowned 11th edition of the Encyclopedia Britannica, in its entry on torture, said “the whole subject is one of only historical interest as far as Europe is concerned.” The Dachau concentration camp was opened in March 1933.

Obama’s foreign policy presumed the existence of “the community of nations.” But that phrase is worse than hackneyed and sentimental, it is oxymoronic: Different nations affirm different notions of justice; a community consists of people made cohesive by a consensus about the nature of justice.

Obama’s second-worst unforced error, second to declaring and then abandoning a “red line” about Syrian chemical weapons,
was involving the U.S. military in regime change in Libya. Perhaps this venture appealed to him because it was untainted by any discernible connection with American national interest. He conducted it by “leading from behind,” which he described as U.S. forces “being volunteered by others to carry out missions” in Libya. As George Orwell said, “The great enemy of clear language is insincerity.”

oon, foreign policy will be conducted by a man who, although in 2010 he said WikiLeaks’ Julian Assange deserves the death penalty, now seems to trust Assange on the subject of Russian hacking more than he trusts the consensus of the nation’s $53 billion civilian intelligence institutions. Time passes and, we are told, brings progress.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...-card-f:homepage/story&utm_term=.ddb83a356d52
 
will dosn't even mention the dithering with Egypt and Saudi Arabia.
Obama never got to the AsianPivot -being stuck in Europe with Ukraine and Putkin..

Nor does he explain WHY Libya was so bad "leading from behind"means nothing really.
Interventionism on a specious "responsibility to protect" based on CNN intel is a lot closer to the unwanted truth
Anyways..
Time for a real Russian reset.
 
Obama’s foreign policy was error after error

I'd be more impressed by this topic if it were posted in conjunction with the DECISION.

Waiting 4 years, finding something to criticize, and then dumping on it is an impressive demonstration of 20:20 hindsight.

Presidents of the United States of America get the difficult decisions.

It's fine and dandy to criticize years after the fact.

It is the Siren anthem of the hopelessly naïve.
 
Obama’s foreign policy was error after error

I'd be more impressed by this topic if it were posted in conjunction with the DECISION.

Waiting 4 years, finding something to criticize, and then dumping on it is an impressive demonstration of 20:20 hindsight.

Presidents of the United States of America get the difficult decisions.

It's fine and dandy to criticize years after the fact.

It is the Siren anthem of the hopelessly naïve.
sometimes it takes awhile for the results to be known-but if Trump's Russian reset would backfire (i.e.) i'm sure the Dems
wouldn't wait and see.
It goes with a POTUS being CIC and leader of foreign policy. That's why POTUS gets the job -to make the decisions

Obama's problem was his view that Obama himself was transformational -and then he proceed to make damn near every wrong decision. Just being Obama wasn't going to cut it.
And I'm not even talking about the Iran deal -which is marginally OK
 
I don't see any mention of his huge mistake in listening to the Progressives that wanted him to pull out of Iraq. Obama enabled Daesh without any doubt and the same thing would have happened in Afghanistan if he had been given half a chance. I remember your man BAC and Darla castigating me for daring to suggest that pulling out the military would just end up with another cluster fuck.

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I don't any mention of his huge mistake in listening g to the Progressives that wanted him to pull out of Iraq. Obama enabled Daesh without any doubt and the same thing would have happened in Afghanistan if he had been given half a chance. I remember your man BAC and Darla castigating me for daring to suggest that pullung out the military would just end up with another cluster fuck.

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We would have had to keep our military there for a century or more.

We were pulling out of there regardless. Bush's war, Bush's calamity.
 
I don't see any mention of his huge mistake in listening to the Progressives that wanted him to pull out of Iraq. Obama enabled Daesh without any doubt and the same thing would have happened in Afghanistan if he had been given half a chance. I remember your man BAC and Darla castigating me for daring to suggest that pulling out the military would just end up with another cluster fuck.

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pulling out where? Iraq? His hand was forced - while there was no desire on Obama's part to extend the SOFA -there was also high political opposition from Maliki and al_Sadr.
Tha SOFA wasn't going anywhere.

True he screwed around in Afgh with his escaltations/withdrawals - and I agree that was mostly driven by US politics.
But you gotta wonder if the Afghani armed forces will ever be able to stand up to the Taliban.

Like they (Taliban) say "you got the watches but we got the time"..


Obama completely screwed up in the middle east. everything he touched turned to crap ( and I include -but not limit Libya in that list)
 
We would have had to keep our military there for a century or more.

We were pulling out of there regardless. Bush's war, Bush's calamity.
Bullshit on steroids, Bush send the military in, for that he should be truly castigated, but Obama compounded the crime. To deny that is to totally deny reality.

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pulling out where? Iraq? His hand was forced - while there was no desire on Obama's part to extend the SOFA -there was also high political opposition from Maliki and al_Sadr.
Tha SOFA wasn't going anywhere.

True he screwed around in Afgh with his escaltations/withdrawals - and I agree that was mostly driven by US politics.
But you gotta wonder if the Afghani armed forces will ever be able to stand up to the Taliban.

Like they (Taliban) say "you got the watches but we got the time"..


Obama completely screwed up in the middle east. everything he touched turned to crap ( and I include -but not limit Libya in that list)
His hand wasn't forced, that's bullshit. He could easily have told Maliki to fuck off. A competent leader changes strategy when events and circumstances dictate. Obama was far more intent on fulfilling a campaign pledge than paying attention to the realities in Iraq.

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His hand wasn't forced, that's bullshit. He could easily have told Maliki to fuck off. A competent leader changes strategy when events and circumstances change. Obama was far more intent on fulfilling a campaign pledge than paying attention to the realities in Iraq.

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you are advocating staying in Iraq without a SOFA?? Would you put Brit troops under Iraqi law?
 
Obama was advocating that ffs, so why did he not leave behind a residual force of 10,000? I do not believe for one second that Iraqis would have stood in the way if Obama had played hardball with Maliki and pointed out a few realities to him.

http://articles.latimes.com/2011/jul/06/world/la-fg-us-iraq-20110706

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Maliki was beyond "reasoning". he was all about staying in power; without al_Sadr's support he wouldn't have.
Look at the stripping out of the Sunni officer corps by Maliki. He didn't care about any "realities"
 
Obama’s foreign policy was error after error

I'd be more impressed by this topic if it were posted in conjunction with the DECISION.

Waiting 4 years, finding something to criticize, and then dumping on it is an impressive demonstration of 20:20 hindsight.

Presidents of the United States of America get the difficult decisions.

It's fine and dandy to criticize years after the fact.

It is the Siren anthem of the hopelessly naïve.

Well lol, criticizing years after the fact, is precisely what historians do.

The Wilson comparison is spot on.

Others have noted Obama's use of the 'arc of history' metaphor [which makes Obama certifiably progressive---if there was any doubt]. It's a failed notion that history has a way of working itself out with the good guys coming out on top. In fact, it flies in the face of history itself.

Repeatedly, and time and again, history needed a nudge from the good guys. Almost always, with bullets and blood shed.

Hence, the most effective basis for foreign policy is diplomacy backed by a really big stick. That's been proven to save lives.
 
^ I don't even pay any attention to his rhetoric. He lost me at the beginning with his "apology tour".
Then he goes into the interventionist phase with Libya ( mostly due to Hillary's prodding)
All the while refusing to condem Iran for it's brutal murders during it's Green Revolution.

Death of Neda Agha-Soltan
Agha-Soltan's death was described as "probably the most widely witnessed death in human history."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Neda_Agha-Soltan#Biography

He's an idiot. He scares off the saudis for no reason,and attempts to mollify the Iranians who laugh at him.
He "red lines"Syria, then backs off -and Kerry hands Russia Assad on a plate..WTF was that all about?
All the while talking about an Asian Pivot -actually a good idea -that never happened.
 
"Well lol, criticizing years after the fact, is precisely what historians do." DO #16

And therefore you're an historian?

"Others have noted Obama's use of the 'arc of history' metaphor [which makes Obama certifiably progressive---if there was any doubt]. It's a failed notion that history has a way of working itself out with the good guys coming out on top. In fact, it flies in the face of history itself." DO

I'm exquisitely eager to dodge all pointless squabbles about labels.
But there are conservative principles I've placed my life & limb at mortal risk to defend; even from teen age.

BUT !!

It's not merely that our world is changing.
The rate of change is accelerating exponentially.

And therefore, attempting governance on basis of simple conservatism would leave the United States of America behind.

We NEED conservatism, to defend and uphold our invaluable traditions such as the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, etc.

BUT !!

We ALSO need to stay current.
Sending our U.S. military troops into combat on horseback with muzzle-loading flintlocks would be a mistake.
So we give them force-multiplies like rapid-fire small arms, so one man can fire 500 times the fire rate of a soldier with a muzzle-loader.

Know it or not, believe it or not, like it or not, admit it or not, there's a word for that. And that word is "progress".

So you can disparage progress, and progressivist politics all you like. But as a matter of U.S. national security (oh and by the way, prosperity as well) we need BOTH conservatism, AND progressivism.

"Hence, the most effective basis for foreign policy is diplomacy backed by a really big stick. That's been proven to save lives."

Yes.
An excellent summation of President Obama's conduct of U.S. foreign policy for 8 years. As former U.S. military I particularly appreciate Obama sticking to his guns on the "boots on the ground" issue for destroying ISIL.
It was unanimously agreed boots on the ground would be needed.
Obama never denied it.
Instead, President Obama simply required that the feet in those boots belong to citizens of nations other than the United States of America. We've shed enough of our own blood in those sands.
Now it's time for those that live there to do their share. And under President Obama, the U.S. will continue to remain their faithful ally as they do.
 
Maliki was beyond "reasoning". he was all about staying in power; without al_Sadr's support he wouldn't have.
Look at the stripping out of the Sunni officer corps by Maliki. He didn't care about any "realities"
Obama held all the cards, he didn't have to cave in to Maliki. I mean holy fuck surely the deaths of over 4000 US and 400 UK military deserved better than just running away.

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Obama held all the cards, he didn't have to cave in to Maliki. I mean holy fuck surely the deaths of over 4000 US and 400 UK military deserved better than just running away.

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did you see the Iraqi's ( even tank columns) flee in battle from ISIS?
Maliki destroyed his own army with the Sunni purge.
Yes they (war dead) deserved better - but Maliki was willing to throw it all away.

Where I have major problems with Obama is his not hitting ISIS when it was in convoys crossing open Iraqi desert.
But I'm not going to blame him ( solely) for the lack of a SOFA extension
 
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