Teens dies after insurance company denies payment

Liberano said:
Organ selling was only outlawed in the 80's, does anyone recall many poor people missing organs before that? No.

Organ selling would help both the poor by allowing them to sell that 2nd kidney they don't need for thousands of dollars and it would save lives with people waiting.

Right now all we have is a black market where Joe Rich can go to a 3rd world country and pay tens of thousands to save their lives. If we legalize it here, it's no longer a black market and many more can afford to have their life saved.
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Organ selling would help both the poor by allowing them to sell that 2nd kidney they don't need for thousands of dollars and it would save lives with people waiting.



I'm stunned.
 
This is hardly that much of a fringe position, Watermark and Agnosticus_Caesar both supported the right to sell your organs.
It is your body right? Certainly far more than a fetus is....
 
Liberano said:
The morality that counts in this case is the individual who needs an organ to live and the seller who wants money to better his life. Why should outside morality affect their free decision, they are not harming anyone. Let them help each other in freedom and peace.
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Just as that would be the same if I offered myself to slavery for my family. It doesn't make it something that we should do.

Taking advantage of somebody's misfortune and desperate need is a form of force.
 
Cypress said:
Look, I know even in a single payer universal plan, not every procedure is going to be paid for. Medical facts have to be balanced against the efficacy of treatment. And I'm not saying that I know for sure that profit is a motive in this particular case.

But, I have a major problem with profit being in any way, a consideration in whether a patient's treatment gets paid for. It should be completely based on medical facts and medical science. Profit should play no role in determining who dies and who lives.
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Pay up or get out chump!
 
Damocles said:
Just as that would be the same if I offered myself to slavery for my family. It doesn't make it something that we should do.
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You cannot sell yourself as a slave as no one has a right to own another being. You can however sell parts of you, like your hair or organs.

Damocles said:
Taking advantage of somebody's misfortune and desperate need is a form of force.
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It isn't. They could work more hours for instance to get extra money but many would find it much easier to just sell that 2nd kidney they don't need.

People who can't afford life insurance or want extra, could write it into their will that their organs can be sold (if they die) by family members to have some money for them after they are gone.

People have a right over their own body, we may not agree with them on how they use it but it is still their right.
 
SantaClaus said:
You cannot sell yourself as a slave as no one has a right to own another being. You can however sell parts of you, like your hair or organs.



It isn't. They could work more hours for instance to get extra money but many would find it much easier to just sell that 2nd kidney they don't need.

People who can't afford life insurance or want extra, could write it into their will that their organs can be sold (if they die) by family members to have some money for them after they are gone.

People have a right over their own body, we may not agree with them on how they use it but it is still their right.
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The attempt to use incentive to exact it from them is force. Allowing them freedom to give of themselves is not. Some things should not be done just because you believe in such a "right" when it can so easily become corrupted.
 
Damocles said:
Just as that would be the same if I offered myself to slavery for my family. It doesn't make it something that we should do.

Taking advantage of somebody's misfortune and desperate need is a form of force.
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But of course, this has become a basic tenent of neo-liberal economics, so...
 
Onceler said:
Wow. What a stomach-churning turn this thread took...
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Yeah, and what is odd about it is that the transplant was denied because the insurance company overrode the judgment of the treating physicians, not because the organ (a donated organ mind you) was too expensive to procure.
 
Damocles said:
The attempt to use incentive to exact it from them is force. Allowing them freedom to give of themselves is not.
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???
Many advertisers use incentive to extract things of value from people, are they using force?
I don't mind allowing people to donate organs themselves but there are far more waiting than donating. Offering cash to anyone who is freely interested is an offer, by it's very definition it cannot involve force.

Why is this so sinister? Every being has 2 kidneys and only needs one, yet thousands die waiting for kidney transplants that never come. It's not like I am asking anyone to cut off their arm so someone else can have an extra.

Damocles said:
Some things should not be done just because you believe in such a "right" when it can so easily become corrupted.
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I'm not sure why you'd say that, any black market always involves more unethical practices than a legal one.
And yes I do believe in the right over your own body.
Who here does not?
 
Dungheap said:
Yeah, and what is odd about it is that the transplant was denied because the insurance company overrode the judgment of the treating physicians, not because the organ (a donated organ mind you) was too expensive to procure.
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Right so you'd rather complain about the one guy who died because some employee in the insurance companied fucked up rather than the thousands who die waiting for a transplant that never comes.
 
Dungheap said:
Yeah, and what is odd about it is that the transplant was denied because the insurance company overrode the judgment of the treating physicians, not because the organ (a donated organ mind you) was too expensive to procure.
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He doesn't want to talk about that. If he talks about the failure of private industry, his face turns purple and he starts posting people's names in some sort of fugue state.

So instead, he has changed the subject to this ghoulish rant about selling body parts.
 
SantaClaus said:
Right so you'd rather complain about the one guy who died because some employee in the insurance companied fucked up rather than the thousands who die waiting for a transplant that never comes.
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Nobody fucked up you liar.

They get payed to "fuck up". It's called incentive to deny claims.
 
SantaClaus said:
Right so you'd rather complain about the one guy who died because some employee in the insurance companied fucked up rather than the thousands who die waiting for a transplant that never comes.
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Hotshot, I was commenting on the topic of the original post wherein a girl died because her insurance company did not want to pay for the surgery and aftercare. It's got nothing to do with the availability of organs.
 
SantaClaus said:
Right so you'd rather complain about the one guy who died because some employee in the insurance companied fucked up rather than the thousands who die waiting for a transplant that never comes.
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And you'd rather talk about organ selling rather than deal with the fact that the insurance industry makes their money by a) refusing to insure people that need medical care and b) refusing to cover treatments that their insured actually need. That's a structural flaw in how medical care is apportioned in the US and it needs to be dealt with. This isn't one guy at some insurance company. This is how the industry operates

Do a google search for health insurance rescissions, read up and then come talk to me.
 
Darla said:
He doesn't want to talk about that. If he talks about the failure of private industry, his face turns purple and he starts posting people's names in some sort of fugue state.
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I did address that, I said that many profitable insurers fund transplants all the time, this was likely an employees mistake.
Far more people die on waiting lists in Socialized medicine countries.

Darla said:
So instead, he has changed the subject to this ghoulish rant about selling body parts.
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Do you believe people have the right over their own body? Did anyone call the practice ghoulish in the 1970's when it was legal? Put things in context.
 
Darla said:
Nobody fucked up you liar.

They get payed to "fuck up". It's called incentive to deny claims.
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If they did that for the wrong reasons, they would lose customers and go out of business. Who would keep paying for insurance that would just deny you? Nobody.
 
SantaClaus said:
If they did that for the wrong reasons, they would lose customers and go out of business. Who would keep paying for insurance that would just deny you? Nobody.
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Dano out-stupids himself again!!!

Are you really that naive & dense? It seems utterly incomprehensible to me. How can anyone think this way?
 
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