The Trump Effect? After Carrier pledge to keep jobs in US, more companies may follow

note this is a rumor, unnamed source stuff: Carrier seems to have promised 100k more jobs in the us instead of mexico if the regulation and tax overhauls push thru.
 
Dick from the Internet said:
A tax incentive would be available to all. This is a one time special favor or handout that's, apparently, only available to Carrier. It does include subsidies other than the special tax considerations.
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I am unaware of other incentives - at least at the state level. There is speculation about Defense contracts to UTI. perhaps so,perhaps not. Again states do this all the timeand they are called "tax incentives" even if a bill is particular to a company. It's not all that unusual.

I would sit back and let the job creators grow the economy, instead of stifling them by forcing them to subsidize Carrier/UTI.
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If GDP was on the upswing toward robust growth, or we weren't hemorrhaging manufacturing/assembly jobs-
we could afford such luxuries of hands off approach. Trump was elected because that is not the case -it's why the Rust Belt went for him.
It's protectionism. I am not stretching the definition.

http://www.investopedia.com/terms/p/protectionism.asp

Protectionism refers to government actions and policies that restrict or restrain international trade, often done with the intent of protecting local businesses and jobs from foreign competition. Typical methods of protectionism are tariffs and quotas on imports and subsidies or tax cuts granted to local businesses. The primary objective of protectionism is to make local businesses or industries more competitive by increasing the price or restricting the quantity of imports entering the country.
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I had thought it pertained to trade, not outsourcing/globalization. But again I'm not at all interested in debating libertarian minutia.


There is nothing unusual about the definition I am using. If you want to call it something else you go ahead and do that. When I say protectionism this is included. There's no need to debate it.

The rust belt's loss of manufacturing jobs is no more due to trade than when it lost agricultural jobs. It's not going to stop losing those jobs without stopping progress.
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this idea that the transformation of an agrarian society to an industrial one is the same as outsourcing
is an inevitability has some merit. Globalization is transformative -i give you that.

However NAFTA and such accelerate the process - it needs to be re-negotiated.
we have been lax to combating the forces of globalization -in NAFTA's case we actually accelerate the process

But in this case globalization doesn't require Carrier to move to Mexico to stay viable ( despite it's claims to the workers).
It's pure corporate greed,and needs to be addressed because of the proximate harm it produces.

A quick fix is the tax incentive. It's not the answer for everything-which is why these principled arguments are not satisfactory.
They accomplish nothing.
Carrier required a nimble response now. That is what Trump/Spence did.
Now for the long haul -improving market forces and business climates to stop the attrition we have now.

This is just a simple step . It provides temporary relief in 1 case - but it's just a small part of the re-alignment needed.
 
tsuke said:
note this is a rumor, unnamed source stuff: Carrier seems to have promised 100k more jobs in the us instead of mexico if the regulation and tax overhauls push thru.
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LOL, they only employ 43,000 now and they're the largest in their industry. You are such a sucker.
 
anatta said:
I am unaware of other incentives - at least at the state level. There is speculation about Defense contracts to UTI. perhaps so,perhaps not. Again states do this all the timeand they are called "tax incentives" even if a bill is particular to a company. It's not all that unusual.

If GDP was on the upswing toward robust growth, or we weren't hemorrhaging manufacturing/assembly jobs-
we could afford such luxuries of hands off approach. Trump was elected because that is not the case -it's why the Rust Belt went for him.
I had thought it pertained to trade, not outsourcing/globalization. But again I'm not at all interested in debating libertarian minutia.


this idea that the transformation of an agrarian society to an industrial one is the same as outsourcing
is an inevitability has some merit. Globalization is transformative -i give you that.

However NAFTA and such accelerate the process - it needs to be re-negotiated.
we have been lax to combating the forces of globalization -in NAFTA's case we actually accelerate the process

But in this case globalization doesn't require Carrier to move to Mexico to stay viable ( despite it's claims to the workers).
It's pure corporate greed,and needs to be addressed because of the proximate harm it produces.

A quick fix is the tax incentive. It's not the answer for everything-which is why these principled arguments are not satisfactory.
They accomplish nothing.
Carrier required a nimble response now. That is what Trump/Spence did.
Now for the long haul -improving market forces and business climates to stop the attrition we have now.

This is just a simple step . It provides temporary relief in 1 case - but it's just a small part of the re-alignment needed.
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Simply put-thank you. :-)
 
Dick from the Internet said:
That they "reinvent" their towns. My point is that you are all over the map here.
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reinvent with what? You dont even want to provide a band aid to them so they will all lose their livelyhoods while this reinvention is taking place.

You already have Flint and Detroit as an example and countless other towns. Dont make more.
 
Some towns/cities grow others die. It happens. This fight to reinvent the last is only going to make the future more painful
 
tsuke said:
reinvent with what? You dont even want to provide a band aid to them so they will all lose their livelyhoods while this reinvention is taking place.
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I was simply using desh's terms. I put "reinvent" in quotes because I am not exactly sure what she meant and it was not my chosen term.

They have to find new industries just as they did when manufacturing supplanted agriculture. I know, you think midwesterners are a bunch of lazy pansies doomed to become street beggars, but I am sure they can and will do what is necessary as they have before.

tsuke said:
You already have Flint and Detroit as an example and countless other towns. Dont make more.
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There is no going back for either one. I would argue they are examples of protectionism and would have transitioned by now and far more smoothly if they had not robbed other industries to prop up their dying ones.
 
cawacko said:
Some towns/cities grow others die. It happens. This fight to reinvent the last is only going to make the future more painful
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Do you think NAFTA can be renegotiated? Do you support lowering taxes on business and the middle class? Do you support a one time reduction in taxes to investors to incentivize their bringing profits back to USA? Do you support cutting government spending to match tax cuts (something Bush failed to do)? These ideas seem like very conservative ideas to me.
 
J Craft said:
Do you think NAFTA can be renegotiated? Do you support lowering taxes on business and the middle class? Do you support a one time reduction in taxes to investors to incentivize their bringing profits back to USA? Do you support cutting government spending to match tax cuts (something Bush failed to do)? These ideas seem like very conservative ideas to me.
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Lowering taxes = good
Tax holiday for overseas money = good
Reduced gov't spending = good (although Trump's about to blow out the budget)
 
anatta said:
so the anti-Trumpers seem to prefer doing nothing..stay that course. It's working out so well. :rolleyes:
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There's lots we can do to improve the business environment in this country. Crony capitalism like this deal isn't the way to go about it
 
tsuke said:
note this is a rumor, unnamed source stuff: Carrier seems to have promised 100k more jobs in the us instead of mexico if the regulation and tax overhauls push thru.
Click to expand...

That would be great and it wouldn't surprise me if it happened...assuming congress doesn't get in the way.

But there's always the phone and the pen lol.

That Trump isn't a hide-bound ideologue is part of his charm. He strikes me as someone who honestly doesn't give a crap which side he pisses off so long as things begin to happen.
 
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