Should an act of expression be a crime?

[Ralph]

Should Americans be prosecuted for expressing unhappiness with an American policy? The Nation, the people, the government, the Country?

I am very uncomfortable when a person with power starts suggesting this. Thank God for checks and balances but they are not foolproof.


Do any Trump supporters feel uncomfortable with Trump suggesting that people lose Citizenship or be put in jail for political dissent?

Its a simple test....your rights of expression or speech cease to exist at the threshold of your neighbor's right to the same. In other words your rights can't cause harm to life, liberty, or property as defined by common law....YOUR RIGHTS don't trump (wink, wink) anyone's right to be free from any threat to life, liberty or property. Its not rocket science...its common sense.

FYI: Political dissent is not....1. Beating down people who voted different because they held a different political ideology. 2....its not killing civil servant police officers 3. .....its not refusing to fairly report the violence and destruction of private and public property. 4......its not breaking common laws that protect your neighbors from harm...i.e., traffic laws....a good example is the idiot snow flake that stepped into the middle of an express highway off ramp and got run the hell over because she broke the law.

Any other spinning propaganda concerning the 1st amendment rights of all citizens? Anyone that attempts to call such acts a right of free speech or a right of Political dissent...should be imprisoned if not for the public's safety...their own, if they are not citizens, they should be deported with extreme prejudice ....why? They don't even know or obey the common laws of the land...they are danger to society.

Its much like the spin coming from the left accusing Mr. Trump of wanting to deport all immigrants and send them back to their nation of origin.....He only wants to deport those people (immediately) that are known criminals both in their own countries as well as in the United States.

Your guild has lost all credibility with your feigned outrages and propaganda...the election proved as much. You are not selling anything the PEOPLE want to buy...thus your only recourse is spinning and propaganda, even if that spin and speech places the public in danger the way it did at Ohio State.

 

[Cancel 2020.1]

Yawn @ hypocrite...............
Donald Trump came under heavy criticism Tuesday after calling for the criminalization of burning the American flag, with critics gasping that the president-elect’s words represent a threat to the First Amendment. However, Trump’s suggestions are similar to a bill pushed in the Senate in 2005 that would criminalize flag burning – a bill that was co-sponsored by then-Sen. Hillary Clinton.

Oh, man. Hillary was over-the-top expedient.

I always hated those flag burning amendments. I used to work on the Hill back in the day. Those debates were just an excuse for phony politicians to grandstand & pander. Our elected representatives at their worst (or close to it).

 

[NOVA]

Yawn @ hypocrite...............
Donald Trump came under heavy criticism Tuesday after calling for the criminalization of burning the American flag, with critics gasping that the president-elect’s words represent a threat to the First Amendment. However, Trump’s suggestions are similar to a bill pushed in the Senate in 2005 that would criminalize flag burning – a bill that was co-sponsored by then-Sen. Hillary Clinton.

The pinheads live by the double standard......if they want it, its right, moral and Constitutional

If the right wants anything, tough shit....its gotta be wrong, period.....

 

[Cancel 2020.1]

The pinheads live by the double standard......if they want it, its right, moral and Constitutional

If the right wants anything, tough shit....its gotta be wrong, period.....

Will you stop w/ this kind of post? If you want to make these kinds of critiques, you have to be consistent w/ what you're saying. You are nothing if not a walking double-standard. When was the last time you agreed with Obama or Democrats on anything?

 

[NOVA]

Remember when Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords, said her constituents were "sick and tired" of the federal government failing to protect the border, that the current situation was "completely unacceptable", and that the legislation was a "clear calling that the federal government needs to do a better job".

Now, if you utter that idea, you're a bigot, racist, Islamophobic, and a 'deplorable'....

Such hypocrites and they can't see it in themselves....

 

[sear]

"I always hated those flag burning amendments." T1 #142

Well worded. Well cited.

T1 seems to know this. But for those that don't recall:
The reason a law illegalizing the desecration of the U.S. flag would have to be an "amendment" is SCOTUS ruled burning the U.S. flag is protected by our First Amendment.
No statute can trump the Constitution, or such a Supreme Court ruling.
So to render it illegal it would have to be an amendment to the Constitution, and it would be the first amendment to our Bill of Rights in history, so far as I know.

I don't take U.S. flag desecration lightly.
But in all candor, we have more important priorities.

U.S. NATIONAL DEBT CLOCK

The Outstanding Public Debt as of 29 Nov 2016 at 07:54:55 PM GMT is:
$ 1 9 , 9 3 8 , 0 7 9 , 9 9 3 , 6 2 0 . 6 9

The estimated population of the United States is 324,243,833
so each citizen's share of this debt is $61,491.01.

http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/

And these clowns want to limit protests? NO WONDER the protesters are burning flags!

 

[NOVA]

Will you stop w/ this kind of post? If you want to make these kinds of critiques, you have to be consistent w/ what you're saying. You are nothing if not a walking double-standard. When was the last time you agreed with Obama or Democrats on anything?

Nice rant but I don't know exactly what you've getting at....did Repubs do something I supported and then Obama do the same thing and I only bitched about Obama ?

if so, just point it out .... other wise, your generalizing is just bullshit.

 

[Ralph]

Well worded. Well cited.

T1 seems to know this. But for those that don't recall:
The reason a law illegalizing the desecration of the U.S. flag would have to be an "amendment" is SCOTUS ruled burning the U.S. flag is protected by our First Amendment.
No statute can trump the Constitution, or such a Supreme Court ruling.
So to render it illegal it would have to be an amendment to the Constitution, and it would be the first amendment to our Bill of Rights in history, so far as I know.

I don't take U.S. flag desecration lightly.
But in all candor, we have more important priorities.

And these clowns want to limit protests? NO WONDER the protesters are burning flags!

Hardly....if the rule of law is amended in any other fashion than prescribed by the constitution itself....a supermajority ratification representative voting process...i.e., amended by OPINION only...then another SCOTUS can amended that opinion via ignoring any precedent they don't agree with. SCOTUS does not represent the standard for the rule of law in this nation. The contract among the states known as the Constitution is that standard....all the SCOTUS can do is compare any potential law against the verbatim working of that standard....just like that standard expressed with no ambiguity whatsoever in Article 10 of the States Bill of Rights...amendment no. 10.

The standard of law in this nation is not some civil servant appointed Oligarchy that has never seen representation by the people...the standard of law ultimately is THE PEOPLE/STATES for they and they alone are authorized to amend (change one word in the constitution)....SCOTUS only self professes that right. If that right exists...show it to me in the Constitution itself.

You will not because you cannot. What you will do is attempt to present more self professed opinions as if they are the actual words of the Constitution....some left wing radical judges...OPINION, or some historical opinion not actually found in the constitution wording. That's why the actual words of the constitution are never used by the ACLU.....they attempt to use the 8 warehouses full of legal opinions found in DC in place of the actual words of the constitution. Why? Because the majority of their attempts to dismantle the constitution....would fall flat on their faces if the verbatim language of that simple 8 page document were used in a literal fashion as intended.

In my "opinion" the first SCOTUS seat to be filled would be filled by a real constitutional scholar in the mold of Ted Cruz...if not Ted Cruz himself. And at least 2 more just like him...who actually use the words found in the Constitution to compare common law or potential conflicts of common law with constitutional law.

 

[Jarod]

Then you support renters that refuse to rent to Blacks or Muslims or Gays....
And bakers that refuse to bake a cake for a gay wedding or a Catholic wedding or a Jewish wedding....etc....



Thats no different than firing or refusing the do business with people for their political views.... its discrimination plain and simple.

BAC sig so many liberals, especially you.....
Cognitive Dissonance is a powerful mindfuck. It transfixes it's host with the terror of inconvenient truth .. the brain becomes motionless .. and all avenues to critical thought are blocked.

I do support those things generally speaking, but just like I support laws against inciting riots, I do think there are limits to a public business and refuse access. it's a balance.

 

[Cancel 2020.1]

Nice rant but I don't know exactly what you've getting at....did Repubs do something I supported and then Obama do the same thing and I only bitched about Obama ?

if so, just point it out .... other wise, your generalizing is just bullshit.

Zero self-awareness. Zero.

Yeah, bravs - there were a lot of things Republicans did that you were fine w/, but turned on as soon as Obama or Democrats did anything similar.

Are you really not aware that you do this? Do you REALLY see yourself as objective?

 

[Jarod]

While I don't support the idea that Delta Airlines could refuse service to anyone who voted for Trump, I do support their right to refuse service to anyone who causes a Disruption on the plane by shouting pro tromp slogans.

 

[The Only Sarge]

While I don't support the idea that Delta Airlines could refuse service to anyone who voted for Trump, I do support their right to refuse service to anyone who causes a Disruption on the plane by shouting pro tromp slogans.

FAA agrees with you also.

 

[BRUTALITOPS]

lol once again you guys got trolled. #trumptrapped.

Clinton put forth a bill in 2005, coincidently seeking a year in jail for the intent to burn the flag.

 

[sear]

"Hardly." #148

?
My entire post was quoted. So I can't determine which part the author thinks is being refuted; or pretends is being refuted.

In any case, #148 is worded verbosely enough to be too thick to fiddle with.

BUT !!

If the intended meaning is SCOTUS doesn't have the latest word; think again.

Stare Decisis has brought us a cascade of enforceable law. Law libraries have shelves crammed with rulings that have the weight of law; and can be cited in court.

Anyone that wants to study it can start with Marbury v. Madison.

There are so many more precedents set since then you won't live long enough to read them all.

 

[NOVA]

I do support those things generally speaking, but just like I support laws against inciting riots, I do think there are limits to a public business and refuse access. it's a balance.

Nice.....so you support discrimination if you like it, but you'll be the judge of what is acceptable.....convoluted and twisted logic at its best....Jarod knows best, huh

 

[Jarod]

Nice.....so you support discrimination if you like it, but you'll be the judge of what is acceptable.....convoluted and twisted logic at its best....Jarod knows best, huh

No, that's not what I said.

 

[NOVA]

Zero self-awareness. Zero.

Yeah, bravs - there were a lot of things Republicans did that you were fine w/, but turned on as soon as Obama or Democrats did anything similar.

Are you really not aware that you do this? Do you REALLY see yourself as objective?

Well, lets point 'em out.....as for being objective ?....I never thought of myself as totally objective, not as you claim you are....
I have my faults and biases, pet peeves, and my own personal values....as everyone in the world does.

Here is where your double standard shines, Thingy, your hypocrasy.....

Bill Clinton, Kerry, Obama, Hillary, Pelosi, Sen. Kennedy, Al Gore,
Albright, etc. harped about Saddam and his WMD, but when
George Bush says EXACTLY the same thing, he is the liar, never a word about the others....and its so easy to be
consistent and say they were all lying....or as I always say, they were all wrong......instead of being a hypocrite as you've proven over and over.

And why in conversing with you, it always down to a personal attack instead of just commenting on what is being discussed....
well, it least your consistent there....

 

[Cancel 2020.1]

Well, lets point 'em out.....as for being objective ?....I never thought of myself as totally objective, not as you claim you are....
I have my faults and biases, pet peeves, and my own personal values....as everyone in the world does.

Here is where your double standard shines, Thingy, your hypocrasy.....

Bill Clinton, Kerry, Obama, Hillary, Pelosi, Sen. Kennedy, Al Gore,
Albright, etc. harped about Saddam and his WMD, but when
George Bush says EXACTLY the same thing, he is the liar, never a word about the others....and its so easy to be
consistent and say they were all lying....or as I always say, they were all wrong......instead of being a hypocrite as you've proven over and over.

Of course - the war w/ a thousand blunders that killed thousands, that you didn't care about - but then Benghazi, with one blunder that killed 4, was like the apocalypse for you. And you want to talk about hypocrisy?

Unfortunately, George Bush didn't say EXACTLY the same thing. My criticism of Bush has always been specific to the way he misled the American public. How he outright lied about an agent named Curveball & his intel on bio-weapons labs in a State of the Union. How his admin "fixed the intel around the policy," which they did - and which is inherently dishonest. How Colin Powell's aide was given a "chinese menu" of intel, and told to "make the case for war."

He wasn't straight w/ the American people, at any step in the process. He made a decision early on to go to war, and purposefully filtered out any information that would undermine that decision. The cost to our country was severe, in dollars, lives & credibility. To watch you apologize for him and the damage he did as much as you have over the past 13 or so years has been one of the more disgusting aspects of this site. To watch you try to create equivalency w/ quotes Democrats made - many in the '90's, and not one of which called for invasion - is truly laughable.

 

[NOVA]

No, that's not what I said.

"I do support those things generally speaking, but just like I support laws against inciting riots, I do think there are limits to a public business and refuse access. it's a balance."


So you support a certain degree of discrimination....a balance....who is gonna be the judge and jury of what is deemed a balance.....

Either you can rent to everyone or pick and choose....what is the balance....?
Either you sell you goods and services to everyone or pick and choose who will deal with....what is the balance ?

Pick and choose by whose standards ?...Yours ? Mine ? Some panel ?

We have laws against rioting and inciting riot and looting....seen any riots lately? Seen any arrests and convictions ? Seen any looters return what they've stolen ?

 

[Jarod]

"I do support those things generally speaking, but just like I support laws against inciting riots, I do think there are limits to a public business and refuse access. it's a balance."


So you support a certain degree of discrimination....a balance....who is gonna be the judge and jury of what is deemed a balance.....

Either you can rent to everyone or pick and choose....what is the balance....?
Either you sell you goods and services to everyone or pick and choose who will deal with....what is the balance ?

Pick and choose by whose standards ?...Yours ? Mine ? Some panel ?





We have laws against rioting and inciting riot and looting....seen any riots lately? Seen any arrests and convictions ? Seen any looters return what they've stolen ?

Based on our Constitution, our Supreme Court is going to be the judge. Silly. Did you go to High School?