It's the turnout, stupid

Comrade Watermark said:
You're an idiot. What good does it do us to have the polls based in our direction? If the polls has been unbiased, Hillary Clinton would've known she was weak in Wisconsin and campaigned there. The inaccurate polls were something that favored trump, by feeding Clinton by information.
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So all the polls and projections that had Hillary winning, hands down, were really a conspiracy to insure that Trump would win!!??!!

:facepalm:

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
 
Irish said:
They didn't just ignore white working class, they started attacking them. Declaring every white person racist, and telling them they had some majic thing called white privilege and that is why their lives are so good.

Never mind they work middle class back breaking jobs and their lives can be bleak.
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Let's not forget the "BASKET OF DEPLORABLE" label.
 
Thing1 said:
Man, TD really dumbs these discussions down.

That is one hefty set of blinders you have on, TD. A total inability to see or consider opposing points of view.
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Wrong again shit-for-brains; they get dumbed down when clueless idiots like you bloviate like a bunch of gullible low IQ parrots.
 
USFREEDOM911 said:
Let's not forget the "BASKET OF DEPLORABLE" label.
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It's impossible to verify, but you wonder if Hillary's deplorable comment was as damaging as Comey [Comey, who first stepped in to save Hillary from indictment only to sabotage her later lol] was.

All of those white Blue Wall voters being implicated as racist xenophobes, after having voted for Obama twice in many instances. That couldn't have gone over well. And I'm willing to bet many of her follows learned nothing from it.

It was major mistake by Hillary.
 
tsuke said:
im stunned he cant process the evidence given by the actual vote.
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I am not surprised at all; in order to "process" information, one must first have a brain. Liberals and their philosophy are brainless morons who believe in Government dependency and faceless bureaucrats rather than a high authority.
 
Darth Hussein Omar said:
It's impossible to verify, but you wonder if Hillary's deplorable comment was as damaging as Comey [Comey, who first stepped in to save Hillary from indictment only to sabotage her later lol] was.

All of those white Blue Wall voters being implicated as racist xenophobes, after having voted for Obama twice in many instances. That couldn't have gone over well. And I'm willing to bet many of her follows learned nothing from it.

It was major mistake by Hillary.
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Well, she displayed her elitism with her deplorables remark. I believe she made the comments in front of queer gangsters, the Hollywood crowd.

The Democrats threw working blue collar america under a bus for good with this remark and the backlash was enormous dwarfing anything Trump said that outraged the PC crowd.
 
Thing1 said:
So, the big narrative now is that Trump tapped into the anger of white, working class voters, who turned out in droves to make him our President.

If not for a total of 107,000 votes in 3 states (MI, WI and PA), Hillary wins the election. She woefully underperformed Obama's 2012 #'s in those states, while Trump's increase over Romney's #'s was statistically insignificant.

Democratic dislike for Clinton and lack of enthusiasm for her decided this election.

Which lays the foundation for what Democrats are debating right now: do they need to expand the message, to appeal to what are now seen as "Trump voters"? Or do they just need to give their own base more reason for enthusiasm, boosting turnout and getting those voters who sat this one out back to the polls?

Personally, I'd like to see the Democrats reclaim the mantle as the party of the middle class and working people. I don't want future elections to be minorities against whites, the coasts against the heartland, cities against rural. But Democrats don't really need to change their message that much. In fact, the smart strategy is probably more about increasing turnout.
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If Democrats believe that then they'll continue to lose elections at local and regional levels and will only be competitive at national level elections in Presidential years where they'll win about half the time.

If Democrats continue to treat the Midwestern States as flyover country they can kiss my ass. They need to start growing their foot print in rural and small town America and not double down on the same old bullshit that's making them a minority party.
 
Darth Hussein Omar said:
I said it would come down to turnout lol.

But the democrats need to evolve. They can't ignore the working class and get their Blue Wall back. Not gonna happen.
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That's exactly what it's done. I remember the NY Times observing that Clinton was spending less time in OH, MI and WI and agreed with her strategy that those States are 80% white and less diverse and not as important as they used to be.

Well Democrats found out just how unimportant OH, WI and MI are. They need to accept the fact that they have abandoned working class, small town and rural folk for urban professionals and diversity. To show that they have learned their lesson they need to put their energy in doing things for rural, small towns and working class people all over the country. Until Democrats grow their foot print outside of suburbia they will continue to lose at the State and local level and, if lucky, might do 50:50 during national elections.

I honestly don't see any indication that the leaders of the Democratic party have learned this lesson.

Having said that if working class people think Plutocratic Republicans are going to solve your problems by creating tax breaks for their rich buddies...well you deserve the rude shock you're in store for.
 
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Comrade Watermark said:
If not for Texas, it would've been a blowout for the Democrats in 2004. You can't just subtract parts of the country you don't like until you get the results you want. Like it or not, California is part of America. I'm tired of the right delegitimizing blue states and acting as if it's ok to ignore them. We're part of America too.
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OIC...and what have the Democrats done for Red States lately? Have they improved the IT infrastructure there? Have they created social programs were all benefit, not just the means tested? Have they stopped bypassing rural communities in their planning cause hey! It's fly over country? Has it ever occurred to their central committees on public education that consolidation kills the very social center of most small towns, their public schools? Have they created jobs in small towns and rural communities?

Politics is, and always should be, a what have you done for me lately business and what exactly have Democrats focused on to help them?
 
Mr. Meeseeks said:
you are acting as if obama and his turnout was the norm. He wasn't. He was a massive abnormality.
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That's true but not in the way many of the wingnuts on here are going to interpret that comment. I think there are two lessons to be learned by both parties from this election.

#1. You take your chances when you nominate a leader who is unpopular.
#2. Ignore rural American and working class folks at your own risk.
 
anatta said:
Dems need to figure themselves out..I'm not sure LW populism is gonna fly -but they need something
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LOL Like the GOP is off the hook. Let's be clear. The Democrats are big time guilty of ignoring their biggest constituency. Working class people. It was a major fuck up.

Let's also be clear, the GOP has not done shit for working class people and, from what I'm seeing so far intends to keep right on exploiting them like they have for the last 30 years. I'm reasonably sure that the GOP establishment thinks they have Trump in their pocket now and he'll do what he has to do to protect the privileges and prerogatives of the very wealthiest. If that turns out to be the case the GOP will be in serious trouble. I don't see Trump doing anything for them other than empty rhetoric and supply side policies that will directly hurt working class people.
 
Darth Hussein Omar said:
It's impossible to verify, but you wonder if Hillary's deplorable comment was as damaging as Comey [Comey, who first stepped in to save Hillary from indictment only to sabotage her later lol] was.

All of those white Blue Wall voters being implicated as racist xenophobes, after having voted for Obama twice in many instances. That couldn't have gone over well. And I'm willing to bet many of her follows learned nothing from it.

It was major mistake by Hillary.
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btw i just want to correct the record here. Were not talking about just Obama. Some of the counties that flipped were so blue they didnt even vote for REAGAN in his landslides.
 
Comrade Watermark said:
If not for Texas, it would've been a blowout for the Democrats in 2004. You can't just subtract parts of the country you don't like until you get the results you want. Like it or not, California is part of America. I'm tired of the right delegitimizing blue states and acting as if it's ok to ignore them. We're part of America too.
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And this is why we have the Electoral College
 
Mott the Hoople said:
If Democrats believe that then they'll continue to lose elections at local and regional levels and will only be competitive at national level elections in Presidential years where they'll win about half the time.

If Democrats continue to treat the Midwestern States as flyover country they can kiss my ass. They need to start growing their foot print in rural and small town America and not double down on the same old bullshit that's making them a minority party.
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An excellent and lucid summary; sometimes you actually surprise me. This is spot on. But, I would add this to it; based on Obama's denial and current efforts by Democrats, they have not gotten the message and appear determined to head down the path they have been on the last two decades and will continue to lose elections and be marginalized at the State and Congressional level.

Democrats cannot comprehend that they truly are in the minority and the media does them few favors by pretending that they are in the majority.
 
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