57 story building in SF tilting- this will not end well
- Thread starter MAGA MAN
- Start date
Leonthecat
Racism Watchdog
It's good shist.
MAGA MAN
Let's go Brandon!
Good reasoning. Yes, it has turned into an arc. Straight, plumb lines have now become curves. So the outside of the arc is longer, meaning that side is now in tension, where, of course, all sides should be in compression.
All forces have to be in equilibrium, so in the "vertical" direction the weight of the building (W) acts downwards, counteracted by a total reaction force (R). In a normal condition, to simplify, you have 4 sides of a building reacting against W, so each side is R/4, or 0.25R.
Now we have one side of the building in tension. We don't know how much tension, but we can call it T. So instead of contributing to R, it is acting against it. So the opposite side of the building now has to carry 0.25R + 0.25R + T.
MAGA MAN
Let's go Brandon!
I get asked this a lot when I point out how someone has made a major error in design or construction and it's long after the fact. They think that because they spent a ton of money and time on the pretty stuff- expensive cabinets, granite counters, etc, that major errors in the structure should be forgiven. Or that, since I pointed out the error, it's my responsibility to design a fix.
Structures do not forgive. It's not my responsibility to fix someone else's problem.
PostmodernProphet
fully immersed in faith..
that's nice.....as a lawyer I would call on you to testify to the confusion of the jury in an action by the purchaser of a condo on the top floor against everyone from the city planner who signed the permit to the illegal alien who tiled the bathroom floor for the subcontractor who should never have been so careless as to work for the developer......
of course the evidence on which the case will hinge is the video of a golf ball rolling across the room at 30 feet per second.......
Leonthecat
Racism Watchdog
It needs to be taken down before it falls down.
The contractor and the engineers who put this fiasco up should never be allowed to build anything ever again and die as penniless paupers.
That is the solution.
The contractor and the engineers who put this fiasco up should never be allowed to build anything ever again and die as penniless paupers.
That is the solution.
MAGA MAN
Let's go Brandon!
Someone beside me finally said it:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...-francisco-s-tilting-sinking-millennium-tower
It's an omen that the sanctuary city is going to receive some wrath!!
Run cowacko, run...
cawacko
Well-known member
Ha! My buddy had drinks with the developer of the building two weeks ago and said the guy was depressed. lol, not a surprise.
MAGA MAN
Let's go Brandon!
Depressed is one thing, being tipsy is another. This whole thing is going to topple while they all sit in a circle and point fingers at each other.
Mott the Hoople
Sweet Jane
You're right and because no one wants to say "Whoops we fucked up. Ya'll are going to have to move out and we're going to have to demolish the building at many millions in cost." they'll continue to play the denial game until either some outside agency forces them to action or the damned thing collapses.
MAGA MAN
Let's go Brandon!
he Bloomberg article is funny since it focuses purely on who is going to pay for it. They totalled up all the insurance policies that the designers and developers have, deducted the huge amounts expected for legal defense and the available amount comes up short. (Gosh, I can see puns all over.) So they wonder where the money is going to come from.
The insurance companies, owned by bean counters, won't pay because they think that the building is still habitable. They'll wait until if falls and kills a few thousand people.
Most of the owners have mortgages on their portion and will declare bankruptcy. So the banks will be footing most of the bill.
The insurance companies, owned by bean counters, won't pay because they think that the building is still habitable. They'll wait until if falls and kills a few thousand people.
Most of the owners have mortgages on their portion and will declare bankruptcy. So the banks will be footing most of the bill.
They're waiting for gub mint to come make it all better.
So it's just a matter of time till it falls over.
MAGA MAN
Let's go Brandon!
I've been in the industry for decades and have seen exactly that. I've also served as expert witness on the owner's side several times now. So funny to see a contractor deny the obvious, like a boring machine augering up clearing debris 17 feet below the surface of a fill, or economy grade lumber used for floor joists instead of #2...
Airstrip One
Completely Effed
How does a building engineered eight years ago have the condition and planning one would expect from a building engineered fifty years ago? It always amazes me, because the proud chronological snob in me always expects newer to be better.
Right, if you've never read about the debacle that is Seattle's Alaskan Way Tunnel project, you will probably get some laughs out of it.
Right, if you've never read about the debacle that is Seattle's Alaskan Way Tunnel project, you will probably get some laughs out of it.
I'm astounded the blueprint was approved. I'd like to believe the construction had code enforcement involvement.
It's not a cloud of imponderables.
Apart from Earthquake, the building ought not topple until its center of gravity travels beyond the perimeter base of structural support.
It's not an absolute impossibility that there's a sink-hole or void beneath it which is about to give way.
In that case it could topple at any moment.
But I suspect the odds of that are quite remote.
I doubt there's nothing that can be done.
It's cheaper to pour the footings BEFORE the foundation.
But it's probably cheaper to pour the footings now, than to demolish the building and perhaps the immediate surroundings along with it, and build an exact replacement, on properly constructed footings.
If I were the engineer on the project, I'd want the footing constructed in two stages.
a) Set a footing at the bottom, more than robust enough to hold the building level for its entire life.
b) Based on that, get the now leaning tower plumb and square again, and then fill in that foundation between building and new footing.
Problem solved.
I think I could do it for less than $17 $Million, if truck access to an excavated work site is available.
It's not a cloud of imponderables.
Apart from Earthquake, the building ought not topple until its center of gravity travels beyond the perimeter base of structural support.
It's not an absolute impossibility that there's a sink-hole or void beneath it which is about to give way.
In that case it could topple at any moment.
But I suspect the odds of that are quite remote.
I doubt there's nothing that can be done.
It's cheaper to pour the footings BEFORE the foundation.
But it's probably cheaper to pour the footings now, than to demolish the building and perhaps the immediate surroundings along with it, and build an exact replacement, on properly constructed footings.
If I were the engineer on the project, I'd want the footing constructed in two stages.
a) Set a footing at the bottom, more than robust enough to hold the building level for its entire life.
b) Based on that, get the now leaning tower plumb and square again, and then fill in that foundation between building and new footing.
Problem solved.
I think I could do it for less than $17 $Million, if truck access to an excavated work site is available.
blackascoal
The Force is With Me
I'm betting that it won't fall straight down .. given that science determines that IMPOSSIBLE .. unless of course you implode it.
You can't even replicate that in a lab.
Imagine that.
)
You can't even replicate that in a lab.
Imagine that.
)
Airstrip One
Completely Effed
I'm betting that it won't fall straight down .. given that science determines that IMPOSSIBLE .. unless of course you implode it.
You can't even replicate that in a lab.
Imagine that.
It's probably leaning too far for that, at this point.
USFREEDOM911
MAKE AMERICA GREAT AGAIN
I'm betting that it won't fall straight down .. given that science determines that IMPOSSIBLE .. unless of course you implode it.
You can't even replicate that in a lab.
Imagine that.
Really!!
So when the upper floors are damaged, it can't collapse from the top??