NBC’s Commander in Chief Forum Was an Authoritarian Farce

christiefan915 said:
I would say it's very intimidating to know your government kills journalists. It's a hallmark of totalitarianism to cut off all dissenting viewpoints. After the journalists, who's next?

Putin is untrustworthy to a fault as bush 43 learned to his shame. Whether or not people think he outplayed Obama in the ME, he is not our friend.

"For 15 years, Vladimir V. Putin has confounded American presidents as they tried to figure him out, only to misjudge him time and again. He has defied their assumptions and rebuffed their efforts at friendship. He has argued with them, lectured them, misled them, accused them, kept them waiting, kept them guessing, betrayed them and felt betrayed by them.

Each of the three presidents tried in his own way to forge a historic if elusive new relationship with Russia, only to find their efforts torpedoed by the wiry martial arts master and former K.G.B. colonel. They imagined him to be something he was not or assumed they could manage a man who refuses to be managed. They saw him through their own lens, believing he viewed Russia’s interests as they thought he should. And they underestimated his deep sense of grievance.

To the extent that there were any illusions left in Washington, and it is hard to imagine there were by this point, they were finally and irrevocably shattered by Mr. Putin’s takeover of Crimea and the exchange of sanctions that has followed. As Russian forces now mass on the Ukrainian border, the debate has now shifted from how to work with Mr. Putin to how to counter him.
“He’s declared himself,” said Tom Donilon, President Obama’s former national security adviser. “That’s who you have to deal with. Trying to wish it away is not a policy.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/24/w...a-riddle-named-putin.html?_r=0#/#time315_8525
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There's nobody "after the journalists". At least since his KGB days. Probably some elections manipulations ( according to Gary Kasparov)
No kidding it's totalitarian ism - but Russian democracy is subservient to Russian greatness.

I don't know if you realize how far Russia fell after the fall of the Soviet Union -and to your article about "mismanagement" -that's the exact mindset
goofball NYTimes and US jingoism imparts upon Putin. NATO expansionism is a manifestation of that.

If you want a "Russian Reset" you need to offer something to reset. How about recognizing Russia as a legitimate power -
whatever the internal electorals?
And that's the problem with Obama's "bad boy slouching" dismissal of Putin, and what Trump is actually looking to reset.
Until we get past this mono-polarism (only western needs are legit)we're not gong to get cooperation from Putin -much less "management"
 
Want some cheese to go with that whine ?

Glad to see you acknowledge trumps advantage in communicating concisely. Dems can't since JFK sonce they can't make their intentions public.
The so called debates are another Waterloo for your poor decrepit candidate.
 
Celticguy said:
Want some cheese to go with that whine ?

Glad to see you acknowledge trumps advantage in communicating concisely. Dems can't since JFK sonce they can't make their intentions public.
The so called debates are another Waterloo for your poor decrepit candidate.
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The bolded is completely perplexing to me. I don't know how any sane, intelligent person could have seen it that way.

Trump was an absolute mess the other night. Outright lies, exaggerations, non-sequiturs, evading questions, hopelessly naive pronouncements, more gushing over Putin, contradictions.

I mean, on what planet is any of that 'communicating concisely'?
 
anatta said:
There's nobody "after the journalists". At least since his KGB days. Probably some elections manipulations ( according to Gary Kasparov)
No kidding it's totalitarian ism - but Russian democracy is subservient to Russian greatness.

I don't know if you realize how far Russia fell after the fall of the Soviet Union -and to your article about "mismanagement" -that's the exact mindset
goofball NYTimes and US jingoism imparts upon Putin. NATO expansionism is a manifestation of that.

If you want a "Russian Reset" you need to offer something to reset. How about recognizing Russia as a legitimate power -
whatever the internal electorals?
And that's the problem with Obama's "bad boy slouching" dismissal of Putin, and what Trump is actually looking to reset.
Until we get past this mono-polarism (only western needs are legit)we're not gong to get cooperation from Putin -much less "management"
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What about this: "Barack Obama tried working around him by building up his protégé in the Kremlin, an approach that worked for a time but steadily deteriorated to the point that relations between Russia and the United States are now at their worst point since the end of the Cold War."

Why is Obama getting the shit when other presidents tried and failed with Putin?
 
Thing1 said:
The bolded is completely perplexing to me. I don't know how any sane, intelligent person could have seen it that way.

Trump was an absolute mess the other night. Outright lies, exaggerations, non-sequiturs, evading questions, hopelessly naive pronouncements, more gushing over Putin, contradictions.

I mean, on what planet is any of that 'communicating concisely'?
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I don't get it either. You can criticize Trump's performance and still hate Hillary. The two aren't mutually exclusive.
 
christiefan915 said:
I don't get it either. You can criticize Trump's performance and still hate Hillary. The two aren't mutually exclusive.
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I've said it a few times, but I 100% get people who are voting Trump just to vote against Hillary. I've had elections like that, and I understand that a lot of people don't like or even hate Hillary. I get it.

But the folks who are actually gung-ho about Trump as a candidate? They need to step back & put things in perspective. There is no way to hear what he has said over the past year & think that he is even remotely in the ballpark of being a decent candidate for President. He's really a two-bit con man & fraud, in business and as a candidate. This isn't speculation or partisan melodrama. This is factual and easily proven.
 
Thing1 said:
The bolded is completely perplexing to me. I don't know how any sane, intelligent person could have seen it that way.

Trump was an absolute mess the other night. Outright lies, exaggerations, non-sequiturs, evading questions, hopelessly naive pronouncements, more gushing over Putin, contradictions.

I mean, on what planet is any of that 'communicating concisely'?
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The OP references that he covered more content.
And that's true, answered more questions as well.
Dems are poor communicators.
 
Thing1 said:
I've said it a few times, but I 100% get people who are voting Trump just to vote against Hillary. I've had elections like that, and I understand that a lot of people don't like or even hate Hillary. I get it.

But the folks who are actually gung-ho about Trump as a candidate? They need to step back & put things in perspective. There is no way to hear what he has said over the past year & think that he is even remotely in the ballpark of being a decent candidate for President. He's really a two-bit con man & fraud, in business and as a candidate. This isn't speculation or partisan melodrama. This is factual and easily proven.
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much the same can be said about Hillary supporters. She's a murderous warmonger, and the Clinton's are political grifters .
Her divisive speech is as bad as Trump's racist remarks. There are no clean hands here.
 
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anatta said:
much the same can be said about Hillary supporters. She's a murderous warmonger, and the Clinton's are political grifters .
Her divisive speech is as bad as Trump's racist remarks. There are no clean hands here.
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Hillary has been demonized beyond reason. I hate, HATE, her hawkishness & vote on Iraq - but any woman who has Presidential ambitions has to be a hawk.

I'm not voting Hillary. But she is nowhere near Trump. Hillary has been in public service her whole life, and has actual accomplishments w/ regard to helping people. She is expedient & calculating, but to me, she's an average politician in that respect.

Trump is a complete fraud, narcissist & pathological liar. He's borderline insane to me. There just isn't any comparing the 2 on that level.
 
Thing1 said:
Hillary has been demonized beyond reason. I hate, HATE, her hawkishness & vote on Iraq - but any woman who has Presidential ambitions has to be a hawk.

I'm not voting Hillary. But she is nowhere near Trump. Hillary has been in public service her whole life, and has actual accomplishments w/ regard to helping people. She is expedient & calculating, but to me, she's an average politician in that respect.

Trump is a complete fraud, narcissist & pathological liar. He's borderline insane to me. There just isn't any comparing the 2 on that level.
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I appreciate you ideas. I too decry Trumps racism...but he has at least gotten better.

I do not agree with you on Hillary's accomplishments. They are corrupt grifters - she is a blood thirsty warmonger.
Her arrogance of power is why she feels free to lie for over a year about every aspect of the emails scandal.

I cannot think of a more loathful character in modern American politics. Nixon and Cheney I suppose
 
anatta said:
I appreciate you ideas. I too decry Trumps racism...but he has at least gotten better.

I do not agree with you on Hillary's accomplishments. They are corrupt grifters - she is a blood thirsty warmonger.
Her arrogance of power is why she feels free to lie for over a year about every aspect of the emails scandal.

I cannot think of a more loathful character in modern American politics. Nixon and Cheney I suppose
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I don't get that or agree w/ it. The demonization of Hillary is something that seems irrational to me. As I said, I don't see her as much different from the average politician. Whatever loathsome qualities she has, she shares w/ just about all of them.

Honestly, I think she & Bill do genuinely care about people, as a lot of expedient politicians do. They believe in their ideas, & that's where the dishonesty comes in - they want the power, but I think people mistake that for thinking they want the power for the sake of power. They want the power because they're arrogant about their ideas, and want to see them advanced. But ultimately, it still goes back to wanting to help people.

The email thing is one of the most overblown things I've ever seen. I put her "lies" about it on par w/ 'the dog ate my homework.' Just something where she's trying to evade embarrassment. I don't see anything sinister about it, as her haters do.
 
Thing1 said:
I don't get that or agree w/ it. The demonization of Hillary is something that seems irrational to me. As I said, I don't see her as much different from the average politician. Whatever loathsome qualities she has, she shares w/ just about all of them.

Honestly, I think she & Bill do genuinely care about people, as a lot of expedient politicians do. They believe in their ideas, & that's where the dishonesty comes in - they want the power, but I think people mistake that for thinking they want the power for the sake of power. They want the power because they're arrogant about their ideas, and want to see them advanced. But ultimately, it still goes back to wanting to help people.

The email thing is one of the most overblown things I've ever seen. I put her "lies" about it on par w/ 'the dog ate my homework.' Just something where she's trying to evade embarrassment. I don't see anything sinister about it, as her haters do.
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^ It's like LBJ. If you read anything about him you realize he was arrogant, narcissistic and a racist. Yet he did more for blacks and people in general than a lot of bleeding-heart liberals or "compassionate" conservatives.
 
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