49ers QB Colin Kaepernick refuses to stand for the national anthem

Darth Hussein Omar said:
For starters, it would help if the injustice weren't some nebulous abstraction. Back in the 60's there were concrete injustices blacks had to put up with and this country is light years beyond that.

And please don't start with the 'war on blacks' by white cops, unless you're willing to accept the total statistical picture. Blacks can and do climb the ladder in this country, we have a black president---and he got elected twice. There's black mayors and black cops, black local officials. In fact, they tend to run a lot of the problem urban areas.

The problem is the racial greviance industry will never be satisfied. The dirty little secret is they don't want to cure racism and when it doesn't exist, they conjure it up.

I call bull shit on it and them.
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I don't even know where to begin with this. It shows a strong disconnect w/ what is happening in the black community. It isn't just cops.

Racism is still a significant problem in America - when it comes to justice, education, employment & general treatment of citizens. If you can't see that, you simply aren't looking. I'm not going to try to convince you of it, because you don't want to hear about it. You seem to think that millions of people are just making it up, or exaggerating, and should just be grateful for what they have.
 
Thing1 said:
Like I said, it's a non-starter then. I'm not sure how to convince you or Darth about the reality of race relations & racism in America.
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You need to fix yourself. Get out there more and learn more about whatever you're not seeing. You keep at it, you can accomplish anything. I'm a girl who grew up in hillbilly country and got a PhD in math. Now I oversee statistical studies that are used by congress to write legislation to improve the lives and safety of Americans. Don't tell me anything is not doable if you work for it. I have two brothers, they both majored in math as did my father. I'm the only one who went on to get a PhD in it. My brothers have other graduate degrees. You just keep at it. Do you know how hard it is for a girl to be treated seriously in math? They had to take me seriously when I did the work.

Easy? No. But it's not easy for anyone. Welcome to reality, life is hard. Your parents should have taught you that, sorry no one told you
 
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Zake said:
You need to fix yourself. Get out there more and learn more about whatever you're not seeing. Only a loser says I can't do it and fails. I'm a girl who grew up in hillbilly country and got a PhD in math. Now I oversee statistical studies that are used by congress to write legislation to improve the lives and safety of Americans. Don't tell me anything is not doable if you work for it. I have two brothers, they both majored in math as did my father. I'm the only one who went on to get a PhD in it. You just keep at it. Do you know how hard it is for a girl to be treated seriously in math? They had to take me seriously when I did the work.

Easy? No. But it's not for anyone. Welcome to reality, life is hard. Your parents should have taught you that, sorry no one told you
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Why is it hard for a girl to be taken seriously in math? That isn't something you'd like to see society improve upon? That's "just the way it is," and it should always be a little harder for girls, for no other reason than their gender?

Sorry. That ain't me, or anyone who cares about trying to fulfill this grand experiment of a country. We keep working; we keep fighting.

And you might need to see a guy who was frisked over 100x by cops break down & cry about it. Just a law-abiding dude, who happened to be black and live in an area with a 'stop & frisk' law, who cops stopped and frisked over 100x. Let him know that's the way it is, and that it's just harder for blacks.
 
do blacks have the same ability to "pursue happiness?" -afterall that is the measure of our society -not guaranteed equal happiness.

For the most part the answer is yes. The exception is poverty (the great equalizer) -but we surely make every attempt
by affirmative action/education subsidies etc. to make avenues for those whom want to better themselves.

we as a society don't own anyone a guaranteed equal outcome -only guaranteed equal opportunities.
 
anatta said:
do blacks have the same ability to "pursue happiness?" -afterall that is the measure of our society -not guaranteed equal happiness.

For the most part the answer is yes. The exception is poverty (the great equalizer) -but we surely make every attempt
by affirmative action/education subsidies etc. to make avenues for those whom want to better themselves.

we as a society don't own anyone a guaranteed equal outcome -only guaranteed equal opportunities.
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Bravo sir.
 
Thing1 said:
Why is it hard for a girl to be taken seriously in math? That isn't something you'd like to see society improve upon? That's "just the way it is," and it should always be a little harder for girls, for no other reason than their gender?

Sorry. That ain't me, or anyone who cares about trying to fulfill this grand experiment of a country. We keep working; we keep fighting.
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Moving the goalposts again. I said it's hard for everyone for different reasons. What will change people's minds about girls in math is more girls being successful in math. But I gotta tell you, the higher I went, it was a virtual dearth of women, just men. More women than men go into college now, but more men than women go into the sciences. No one was going to stop me. No one did stop me. As I proved myself, I was accepted. I'm not crying to anyone, I'm just telling you we all have challenges. Welcome to life. Apparently your parents missed telling you a few things. That's OK, it's never too late to learn

Thing1 said:
And you might need to see a guy who was frisked over 100x by cops break down & cry about it. Just a law-abiding dude, who happened to be black and live in an area with a 'stop & frisk' law, who cops stopped and frisked over 100x. Let him know that's the way it is, and that it's just harder for blacks.
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I've been making the same point, actually. I agree that's wrong and no, I don't know what it's like. But I wouldn't let it stop me from whatever I wanted to accomplish. However, even in that case, you have to deal with discrimination when it happens and stop running around screaming there's a racist behind every tree. The majority of cops are not like that. They should't be punished in your witch hunt, and they are
 
anatta said:
do blacks have the same ability to "pursue happiness?" -afterall that is the measure of our society -not guaranteed equal happiness.

For the most part the answer is yes. The exception is poverty (the great equalizer) -but we surely make every attempt
by affirmative action/education subsidies etc. to make avenues for those whom want to better themselves.

we as a society don't own anyone a guaranteed equal outcome -only guaranteed equal opportunities.
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No one is talking about equal income.

Blacks have the same ability; we all have the same ability. Do they have the same access to opportunity? Educationally, vocationally?

I mean, if you answer "yes" to that, I really don't know what to tell you.
 
anatta said:
do blacks have the same ability to "pursue happiness?" -afterall that is the measure of our society -not guaranteed equal happiness.

For the most part the answer is yes. The exception is poverty (the great equalizer) -but we surely make every attempt
by affirmative action/education subsidies etc. to make avenues for those whom want to better themselves.

we as a society don't own anyone a guaranteed equal outcome -only guaranteed equal opportunities.
Click to expand...

Yes, exactly
 
Thing1 said:
No one is talking about equal income.

Blacks have the same ability; we all have the same ability. Do they have the same access to opportunity? Educationally, vocationally?

I mean, if you answer "yes" to that, I really don't know what to tell you.
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You make your own opportunity in life. And doing that for anyone in this country is far, far easier than for almost anyone to do it in the history of the planet. I hate people who make excuses for failure. There is no real reason to fail other than not choosing to do what it takes to succeed.

As you know, I think we need to work harder on our educational system, provide a reasonable safety net, provide access to healthcare, that's what an advanced society does. But making it is what you do yourself, government can't do that for people. Government did shit for me getting my PhD, and that's all I wanted or needed from them, it was on me
 
Fake said:
Actually I said that it's hard for blacks, just like it's hard for everyone else. You really are an idiot
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Separate but equal difficulties?

So you think that blacks don't ever face an additional burden due to racism at any time?
 
Zake said:
Moving the goalposts again. I said it's hard for everyone for different reasons. What will change people's minds about girls in math is more girls being successful in math. But I gotta tell you, the higher I went, it was a virtual dearth of women, just men. More women than men go into college now, but more men than women go into the sciences. No one was going to stop me. No one did stop me. As I proved myself, I was accepted. I'm not crying to anyone, I'm just telling you we all have challenges. Welcome to life. Apparently your parents missed telling you a few things. That's OK, it's never too late to learn

I've been making the same point, actually. I agree that's wrong and no, I don't know what it's like. But I wouldn't let it stop me from whatever I wanted to accomplish. However, even in that case, you have to deal with discrimination when it happens and stop running around screaming there's a racist behind every tree. The majority of cops are not like that. They should't be punished in your witch hunt, and they are
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Well, we might be finding SOME agreement in that last part. I do think people overuse "racist" and call it out on in MANY instances where it isn't warranted. And it's unfortunate, because it really dilutes the term and renders it basically meaningless.

However, that doesn't mean that racism isn't out there, and still a significant part of our country. It's why it's so frustrating to hear people yell racism at things that simply are not; it really makes the real problem harder to identify & bring attention to.

With Kaep, I get it. African Americans have had it, and it's not just with the cops. I mean, it's great that we elected Obama - but he's also half-white. Think about it; if he had a darker complexion, would he have gotten elected? There are still some big problems out there.

Of course, everyone has their challenges, and it's never any kind of "excuse." Everyone should work hard to lift themselves up, no matter what is thrown in their way. That's part of the American spirit too. But the reaction to Kaep's protest is something I'll never understand. I'm not down w/ the whole "love it or leave it" thing.
 
Legion Troll said:
Separate but equal difficulties?

So you think that blacks don't ever face an additional burden due to racism at any time?
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Since I did respond to your post, I'll respond to your reply.

Presenting questions like you did as absolutes is what idiots who can't make coherent arguments do
 
Thing1 said:
No one is talking about equal income.

Blacks have the same ability; we all have the same ability. Do they have the same access to opportunity? Educationally, vocationally?

I mean, if you answer "yes" to that, I really don't know what to tell you.
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who is "they".
Blacks aren't monolithic - all in the ghetto- all middle class.

They have the same class striations as whites. The problem is being born into extreme poverty is a bitch -black or white.
So we subsidize housing/food/ free education up to college, and then student loans for those in need.

If no blacks born into poverty were making it to a successful adulthood, you'd have a point.
But many do. Just the same as poor whites.

That is giving an equal opportunity. When you start guaranteeing outcomes by subsidies, then you've moved past
American ideals of "pursuit of happiness".

If you tell me blacks have a shittier home life, or go into gangs, or any other socio reasoning why there is endemic poverty-
Ok sure. But what is society's responsibility besides giving equal opportunity?
 
Thing1 said:
Well, we might be finding SOME agreement in that last part. I do think people overuse "racist" and call it out on in MANY instances where it isn't warranted. And it's unfortunate, because it really dilutes the term and renders it basically meaningless.

However, that doesn't mean that racism isn't out there, and still a significant part of our country. It's why it's so frustrating to hear people yell racism at things that simply are not; it really makes the real problem harder to identify & bring attention to.

With Kaep, I get it. African Americans have had it, and it's not just with the cops. I mean, it's great that we elected Obama - but he's also half-white. Think about it; if he had a darker complexion, would he have gotten elected? There are still some big problems out there.

Of course, everyone has their challenges, and it's never any kind of "excuse." Everyone should work hard to lift themselves up, no matter what is thrown in their way. That's part of the American spirit too. But the reaction to Kaep's protest is something I'll never understand. I'm not down w/ the whole "love it or leave it" thing.
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I didn't say there isn't any racism, again you're going to the ridiculous standard of absolutes. That was you moving the goalposts from whether racism stops blacks, it doesn't. Most people don't discriminate in jobs, housing or anything else. If you run into someone who does, find another way, there are plenty of other paths. And if you can prove it, report them
 
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