U.S. Homeownership rate falls to five decade low

I Love America said:
You might want to reread your entire post and then rethink your "it's the governments fault" snark. Unless of course you think President Bush wasn't "the government"

The government is the only way something like this could have happened. You are creating strawman arguments. The government plans the seeds in the form of the CRA. They provided the nutrient rich soil with gobblement backed loans through Fannie and Freddie. They provided the necessary rain through threats of litigation by their ACORN thugs and holding up bank mergers if loan quotas weren't met. And lastly artificially low interest rates were the fertilizer.

Your response was hilarious and an epic example of your monumental stupidity.
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Yeah, bubbles have never happened without the government! Totally unprecedented in the history of the free market! Who would've thought a boom and bust cycle could ever emerge without the government?!
 
cawacko said:
No sir, it is not. I've read the big short. I've seen the movie. I've read Paul Krugman. I know what the "conventional" arguments are. Because they are "conventional" doesn't mean they are right.
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Yea....well so have we and your comments don't smack of fact but of an apologist for Wall Street investment bankers. A large number of whom defrauded the public and should have gone to prison.
 
Mr.Badguy said:
Good to know I'm bucking the trend. I'm currently in the process of buying my first.
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Good for you but foreign investors have been snapping up properties for a while so they are not the deal they were. That's a factor in the sagging ownership rate.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
That's a complete and total crock of bullshit Wacko. The Government may have supported home ownership but they were hardly responsible for banks predatory lending practices to unqualified people nor did they wrap their bad business decisions in complex financial instruments like credit default swaps and in fact if the Bush administration had done it's job and enforced existing SEC regulatory laws through inspection, audits and enforcements that were currently on the book the whole fiasco could have been avoided....but yea...it's the governments fault.

:thanksobama:
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banks are fearless because they know the politicians they purchased will bail them out.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
I'm simply amazed that people are not leaving California in droves.
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Many white middle class are actually. The first movement we saw for instance was people leaving the Bay Area for places like Sacramento. But then of course Sacramento started getting more expensive.

We hear stories about home for sale signs in Portland having stickers saying don't sell to Californians.

We really are becoming a state with a large rich/wealthy population and a large lower working class. The middle class here is in a tough position
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Yea....well so have we and your comments don't smack of fact but of an apologist for Wall Street investment bankers. A large number of whom defrauded the public and should have gone to prison.
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I'm not supporting the bankers. They are clearly a part of this but in a different discussion. I'm talking about the root cause here. It's far more than ideological it's about understanding what really happened to learn going forward.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
I heard that. I have two friends who are consumed with cars. Both are into SCCA racing, single bachelors and spend most of their available cash on their racing addiction.
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That's way beyond what I was talking about. Modifying/ racing is always a huge cash hole. I'm just talking about restoring/ renovating (adding modifications to make the car more safe and drivable).

Did you ever buy that modern classic TBird? I finished my resto-mod a few months ago.
 
cawacko said:
I'm not supporting the bankers. They are clearly a part of this but in a different discussion. I'm talking about the root cause here. It's far more than ideological it's about understanding what really happened to learn going forward.
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maybe the bankers paid the politicians to put those policies in place so they could do the things they did?

Maybe theres a reason people are upset clinton is owned by banks and wall st.
 
tsuke said:
maybe the bankers paid the politicians to put those policies in place so they could do the things they did?

Maybe theres a reason people are upset clinton is owned by banks and wall st.
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Nice conspiracy theory but no, that's not what happened
 
Right said:
That's way beyond what I was talking about. Modifying/ racing is always a huge cash hole. I'm just talking about restoring/ renovating (adding modifications to make the car more safe and drivable).

Did you ever buy that modern classic TBird? I finished my resto-mod a few months ago.
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LOL No the two buddies I told you about who are into SCCA racing talked me into buying a Mazda MX5. Been to a couple of introductory autocross events and driving this little MX5 (which is a total blast to drive on twisty back roads) is definitely making me a better driver. I'm much better at determining the limits of grip on the car, hitting my marks on curves and my turn in on turns. Which is why my friends suggested a Miata-MX5 as my first sports car. I'm thinking about trading it in for a Ford Focus RS in the next year or two. The RS may not be a classic rear wheel drive sports car and it's definitely not a muscle car but for all weather driving conditions we have here up north these all wheel drive rally cars are great all year round sports cars. You don't have to put them in the garage when it's snowing and since it's smaller and lighter with 350 hp and all wheel drive it's actually as fast and handle better than a Mustang GT does.

I did test drive the T-bird and though I liked the stability of the double wishbone chassis and it is well appointed but it's an extremely heavy car at near 4,000# and with only 280 hp it's badly underpowered and dealing with the hard top roof, which has to be manually removed to drive as a convertible turned me off. It's actually slower than the MX5 and it isn't nearly as quick and nimble or able to carry momentum through curves and turns either.

I'm also considering maybe buying a used Corvette. It is amazing how many people buy a Corvette, put in their garage, rarely drive it and then sell it 7 years later for about 1/3 of what they paid for it. I looked through the local used car listings for Corvettes and there is just page after page of 7 or 8 year old Vettes with 20,000 miles on them selling for $25-$30K.
 
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Mott the Hoople said:
LOL No the two buddies I told you about who are into SCCA racing talked me into buying a Mazda MX5. Been to a couple of introductory autocross events and driving this little MX5 (which is a total blast to drive on twisty back roads) is definitely making me a better driver. I'm much better at determining the limits of grip on the car, hitting my marks on curves and my turn in on turns. Which is why my friends suggested a Miata-MX5 as my first sports car. I'm thinking about trading it in for a Ford Focus RS in the next year or two. The RS may not be a classic rear wheel drive sports car and it's definitely not a muscle car but for all weather driving conditions we have here up north these all wheel drive rally cars are great all year round sports cars. You don't have to put them in the garage when it's snowing and since it's smaller and lighter with 350 hp and all wheel drive it's actually as fast and handle better than a Mustang GT does.

I did test drive the T-bird and though I liked the stability of the double wishbone chassis and it is well appointed but it's an extremely heavy car at near 4,000# and with only 280 hp it's badly underpowered and dealing with the hard top roof, which has to be manually removed to drive as a convertible turned me off. It's actually slower than the MX5 and it isn't nearly as quick and nimble or able to carry momentum through curves and turns either.
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I didn't know the MX-5 had that much power. Fiat has built a new 124 on that chassis, which is awesome, because it has increased the market value of my '74 124 so that I may not lose when I sell it as much as I originally thought.

Back in the 80's I did Track Time for two separate 3 day events so got all the training I need for what I do. I like the twisties, but most of all I like anything that handles with RWD- getting the rear end to hook up and steering with the gas pedal on twisties is all the fun I need.

The TBird that you drove is not, nor has the marque ever been, a sports car. It is a personal luxury cay. My '64 is a muscle car by ever definition yet is also a land yacht.
 
Right said:
I didn't know the MX-5 had that much power. Fiat has built a new 124 on that chassis, which is awesome, because it has increased the market value of my '74 124 so that I may not lose when I sell it as much as I originally thought.

Back in the 80's I did Track Time for two separate 3 day events so got all the training I need for what I do. I like the twisties, but most of all I like anything that handles with RWD- getting the rear end to hook up and steering with the gas pedal on twisties is all the fun I need.

The TBird that you drove is not, nor has the marque ever been, a sports car. It is a personal luxury cay. My '64 is a muscle car by ever definition yet is also a land yacht.
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Yea the T-Bird would have been a great cruising car but to be honest the hard top roof made it a deal killer. It was just seriously impractical. With the MX5 I can put the roof up or down while seated with one hand.

The MX5 doesn't have a lot of power. Mine has 170 hp with a curb weight of only 2400 lbs. But on a weight/hp basis it has a tad more power than the T-Bird does. The 2016 MX5 has only 155 hp but dropped the weight to 2100 lbs. It's not that fast. Top end is about 130 mph but I you can be driving 65 mph and go through a 35 mph curve without lifting without even pushing the limit of grip. With some additional mods like beefier sway bars it can do even better.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
Yea the T-Bird would have been a great cruising car but to be honest the hard top roof made it a deal killer. It was just seriously impractical. With the MX5 I can put the roof up or down while seated with one hand.

The MX5 doesn't have a lot of power. Mine has 170 hp with a curb weight of only 2400 lbs. But on a weight/hp basis it has a tad more power than the T-Bird does. The 2016 MX5 has only 155 hp but dropped the weight to 2100 lbs. It's not that fast. Top end is about 130 mph but I you can be driving 65 mph and go through a 35 mph curve without lifting without even pushing the limit of grip. With some additional mods like beefier sway bars it can do even better.
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OK I misread your post I thought you said 350HP on the Mazda.

Until I finish my Fiat my twisty road car is my 05 V6 Mustang. I replaced the suspension with GT components, tires and wheels, along with a dual exhaust. 215 HP and 49/51 weight distribution; handles like a slot car. It's hard to make the tires squeal around turns.

My 124 has a one-hand manual drop-top, its signature feature. I'm not into 'verts but this one is as practical as possible for one, since it will always be garaged anyway. That car was $4400 when new, damn expensive back then. High tech for the time. 115HP, 1800cc, DOHC, solid lifters, two-stage Weber carb, 4 wheel discs, and a hydraulic compensator on the rears to prevent slide-out on hard braking.

Your concern on the removable hard top is probably shared by many. That's a big item to store, and probably takes two men to lift it. Mines a solid steel roof and I like it that way. I think big 'verts are silly.
 
Right said:
OK I misread your post I thought you said 350HP on the Mazda.

Until I finish my Fiat my twisty road car is my 05 V6 Mustang. I replaced the suspension with GT components, tires and wheels, along with a dual exhaust. 215 HP and 49/51 weight distribution; handles like a slot car. It's hard to make the tires squeal around turns.

My 124 has a one-hand manual drop-top, its signature feature. I'm not into 'verts but this one is as practical as possible for one, since it will always be garaged anyway. That car was $4400 when new, damn expensive back then. High tech for the time. 115HP, 1800cc, DOHC, solid lifters, two-stage Weber carb, 4 wheel discs, and a hydraulic compensator on the rears to prevent slide-out on hard braking.

Your concern on the removable hard top is probably shared by many. That's a big item to store, and probably takes two men to lift it. Mines a solid steel roof and I like it that way. I think big 'verts are silly.
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True. I bought the 06 GT MX5 and that comes with an independent rear suspension and a limited slip differential. That definitely gives you the confidence to corner aggressively. I know the current Ford Mustang GT has finally been given an independent rear end with limited slip differential and that it has improved the Mustangs handling dramatically.
 
Mott the Hoople said:
True. I bought the 06 GT MX5 and that comes with an independent rear suspension and a limited slip differential. That definitely gives you the confidence to corner aggressively. I know the current Ford Mustang GT has finally been given an independent rear end with limited slip differential and that it has improved the Mustangs handling dramatically.
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I'm not sure how dramatic. My 05 handles exceptionally well and I've snuck up on several wannabe racers in BMWs on twisty mountain roads here. In certain instances, washboard bumps for example, yes the IRS has the advantage. Ford perfected the live axle handling about as much as the ancient technology would allow.

But I agree completely that it's about time Ford moved the Mustang into the 21st century with fully independent. Back in 2002 I sold my 96 Mustang GT to buy something more practical, and drove an F150, hated it. Drove the Explorer with its new chassis design, RWD IRS and had to have it. Ford got a lot of resistance from the drag race crowd about the Mustang that held that back another 14 years, that crowd that just loves the big 8.8 live axle. The old Ford all steel 9" is still coveted among hot rodders; I've seen them installed in everything Chevys, Mopars, and even old AMCs. Aftermarket manufacturers still make very high end remakes of it; a friend of mine is installing one in a '67 Mustang coupe built on a custom frame with front coil-overs.
 
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