The Brits Are Turning

on each other. It's quite a show. It's really not interesting here where all you have is Tom funneling you a bunch of bullshit. He can't go over to the Guardian they are looking for Brexiters to slit their throats. Few are to be found, they have quieted down "right quick". Even at the Daily Mail there is a lot of finger pointing and realizations that "Project Fear" is now "Project Reality"

It's like something out of Animal Farm.

There's a bit of panic as the pound continues to drop, combined with the fall of the FTSE 250, which unlike the FTSE100, is mainly UK companies, small businesses and the like. Unless that goes back up fast there are going to be layoffs, hiring freezes, investment freezes, and even business closings.

There really isn't enough popcorn in the world for this. I feel for the Remainers, but the Brexiters are getting it in the ass and they have it coming. But we owe them a debt, after all they so cleverly led the way in showing us what a shitshow clusterfuck following these Trumpeteers over the cliff would be.

And what do we have at JPP? The insular world of 12 posters total, 5 of whom thank every post from Tom because they actually believe they are hearing what is happening in the UK from "The only one here who really knows".

LMAO
 
on each other. It's quite a show. It's really not interesting here where all you have is Tom funneling you a bunch of bullshit. He can't go over to the Guardian they are looking for Brexiters to slit their throats. Few are to be found, they have quieted down "right quick". Even at the Daily Mail there is a lot of finger pointing and realizations that "Project Fear" is now "Project Reality"

It's like something out of Animal Farm.

There's a bit of panic as the pound continues to drop, combined with the fall of the FTSE 250, which unlike the FTSE100, is mainly UK companies, small businesses and the like. Unless that goes back up fast there are going to be layoffs, hiring freezes, investment freezes, and even business closings.

There really isn't enough popcorn in the world for this. I feel for the Remainers, but the Brexiters are getting it in the ass and they have it coming. But we owe them a debt, after all they so cleverly led the way in showing us what a shitshow clusterfuck following these Trumpeteers over the cliff would be.

And what do we have at JPP? The insular world of 12 posters total, 5 of whom thank every post from Tom because they actually believe they are hearing what is happening in the UK from "The only one here who really knows".

LMAO

so you think that the stock market activity right after the vote is permanent yes? :)
 
Pretty dopey comment.

Even if it's short-term, it will cost many jobs.

You shouldn't vote.

whut. If its short term then the value will be back before the jobs are lost :/

You know early corporations acted like you guys do today. They actually gave the workers letters saying that they shouldnt show up for work if the other party won. The other party won and work still continued :)

I love how the democrats are the most pro establishment, pro wall street, pro big business people now while we the "nationalist" gop are pro labor.
 
whut. If its short term then the value will be back before the jobs are lost :/

You know early corporations acted like you guys do today. They actually gave the workers letters saying that they shouldnt show up for work if the other party won. The other party won and work still continued :)

I love how the democrats are the most pro establishment, pro wall street, pro big business people now while we the "nationalist" gop are pro labor.

Shut up twit.

You don't get to state what liberal or democratic opinions are, and then all of a sudden, that becomes a fact.

The idea that democrats don't understand, or care, that if the markets all dive, and companies institute hiring freezes and layoffs, that leads to severe job losses, which negatively impacts the wider economy, which WE are a part of, is a bunch of right wing horseshit.
 
whut. If its short term then the value will be back before the jobs are lost :/

You know early corporations acted like you guys do today. They actually gave the workers letters saying that they shouldnt show up for work if the other party won. The other party won and work still continued :)

I love how the democrats are the most pro establishment, pro wall street, pro big business people now while we the "nationalist" gop are pro labor.

Recognizing the indisputable connection between the stock market & jobs is being "pro Wall Street"?

Seriously: do not vote.
 
ooh btw. Correct me if im wrong. Didnt the british stock market gain points at the end of the week from where it started at the beginning of the week. :)
 
Shut up twit.

You don't get to state what liberal or democratic opinions are, and then all of a sudden, that becomes a fact.

The idea that democrats don't understand, or care, that if the markets all dive, and companies institute hiring freezes and layoffs, that leads to severe job losses, which negatively impacts the wider economy, which WE are a part of, is a bunch of right wing horseshit.

just stated what actually happened :)

Dems care more about wall street profits than workers :) which is why their candidate is who she is.
 
whut. If its short term then the value will be back before the jobs are lost :/

You know early corporations acted like you guys do today. They actually gave the workers letters saying that they shouldnt show up for work if the other party won. The other party won and work still continued :)

I love how the democrats are the most pro establishment, pro wall street, pro big business people now while we the "nationalist" gop are pro labor.
it's the establishment part of the parties that support Wall St. Clinton et all - but also the Republicans..agree on that
Do you think Trump is pro labor? maybe - at least he and sanders are against the TPP. Hillary shape shifts on that -who knows?

Trump wants to bring "jobs back"..just how that is done....
 
it's the establishment part of the parties that support Wall St. Clinton et all - but also the Republicans..agree on that
Do you think Trump is pro labor? maybe - at least he and sanders are against the TPP. Hillary shape shifts on that -who knows?

Trump wants to bring "jobs back"..just how that is done....

better to try than continue status quo that is clearly failing. Many people thought this way to in britain :)
 
ooh btw. Correct me if im wrong. Didnt the british stock market gain points at the end of the week from where it started at the beginning of the week. :)

The pound falling for a while is good for exports and bad for imports. That will hurt the US and Germany more than us.
 
Cameron is speaking and says The Bank of England and the Treasury will continue to take all measures to shore up the markets (and the pound). And I am sure they will. The markets will stabilize at some point. Which is what will let the US and Europe off the hook, for the most part.

Where will all that money come from? There will be further austerity. A shrinking of the GDP. This means job losses and public cuts within the UK.

Short term it may look bad for all of us - long term? Everyone else stabilizes (presuming no further EU defections), and the UK is fucked. Assuming the UK holds, it may split up. Either way, England is fucked, and oh God those poor bastards in Wales, who voted believing the Leavers bs that the UK would replace the EU money subsidizing Wales. They will never see a pound.
 
Oh Dear:

European diplomats have dismissed claims from Boris Johnson that the UK could negotiate access to the EU single market without obeying any of the rules.

“You cannot have your cake and eat it,” said an EU diplomat, echoing a phrase the former mayor of London used during the campaign and which looks set to come back to haunt him.

In a further blow to the leave camp’s credibility, Germany’s leading business group distanced itself from Johnson’s suggestion that German business expected Britain’s free trade with Europe to continue seamlessly.

After more than two days of silence following the leave campaign’s stunning victory, Johnson set out his pitch for the UK’s future relationship with the EU in one of his highly lucrative Daily Telegraph columns.

The Brexit leader, who is the favourite to succeed David Cameron as prime minister, claimed that Britain would remain a member of the EU’s single market while introducing a points-based immigration system to limit the right of EU citizens to work in Britain.

British people would still be able to live, travel, study and buy homes on the continent but the same rights would not be automatically extended to EU citizens in the UK, he wrote. Britain would also be freed from sending “a substantial sum of money” to the EU budget, which he said “could” be used for the NHS.

Johnson insisted the only change – “and it will not come in any great rush – is that the UK will extricate itself from the EU’s extraordinary and opaque system of legislation”.

EU diplomats reacted witheringly to the idea that the UK could stay in the single market without following the rules.

“It is a pipe dream,” said the EU diplomat. “You cannot have full access to the single market and not accept its rules. If we gave that kind of deal to the UK, then why not to Australia or New Zealand. It would be a free-for-all.”

A second EU diplomat said: “There are no preferences, there are principles and the principle is ‘no pick and choose’.”

The diplomat stressed that participating in the single market meant accepting EU rules, including the jurisdiction of the European court of justice, monitoring by the European commission and accepting the primacy of EU law over national law – conditions that will be anathema to leave advocates who campaigned on the mantra “take back control”.

A third EU diplomat said the Brexit side had “no clue” what was going on and did not have a plan.

The Brexit camp’s claims of support from German industry also began unravelling when the country’s leading industry group distanced itself from Johnson’s rose-tinted scenario.

In the Telegraph column, Johnson claimed that the German equivalent of the CBI, the BDI, had “very sensibly reminded us there will continue to be free trade and access to the single market”.

When asked about Johnson’s comments, a BDI spokesperson pointed out that while its head, Markus Kerber, had described trade barriers as “very, very foolish” in a BBC interview on 22 June, he had been commenting on one of several fictional scenarios.

In previous interviews, the BDI spokesperson said, Kerber had warned that a vote to leave would spark a “tooth-and-nail fight” between the UK and erstwhile trade partners. “It wouldn’t be an amicable divorce”, Kerber told Bloomberg in February. “There’s no default European free-trade status in the waiting.”

In a statement released in response to the Johnson column, the BDI warned the British government against leaving its status in relation to the EU in limbo. “British politics now has to quickly set in motion the required processes, the EU and Great Britain both have quickly state their aims,” it said.

“We deeply regret the result of the referendum,” the BDI statement added. “The decision weakens the United Kingdom itself, the EU and Germany – politically as well as economically. Those responsible in politics now have to do everything to minimise the damage.”

Full article:

http://www.theguardian.com/politics...-johnson-pipe-dream-over-single-market-access
 
10 Myths

FIRST MYTH: BRITAIN WOULD LOSE THREE MILLION JOBS IF WE LEFT THE EU

If Britain withdrew from the EU it would preserve the benefits of trade with the EU by imposing a UK/EU Free Trade Agreement.
The EU sells a lot more to us than we sell to them. In 2014 there was a trade deficit of over £50bn, with a current account deficit of nearly £100 billion. It seems unlikely that the EU would seek to disrupt a trade which is so beneficial to itself.
– Moreover, the Lisbon Treaty stipulates that the EU must make a trade agreement with a country which leaves the EU.

– World Trade Organization (WTO) rules lay down basic rules for international trade by which both the EU and UK are obliged to abide. These alone would guarantee the trade upon which most of those 3 million jobs rely.

SECOND MYTH: BRITAIN WILL BE EXCLUDED FROM TRADE WITH THE EU BY TARIFF BARRIERS

-The EU has free trade agreements with over 50 countries to overcome such tariffs, and is currently negotiating a number of other agreements.
-EU now exempts services and many goods from duties anyway. In 2009 UK charged customs duty of just 1.76% on non-EU imports. This is so low that the EU Common Market is basically redundant as a customs union with tariff walls.

THIRD MYTH: BRITAIN CANNOT SURVIVE ECONOMICALLY OUTSIDE THE EU IN A WORLD OF TRADING BLOCS

-Major economies eg. Japan (one of the world’s largest) are not in a trading bloc.
-The EU is not the place where most economic growth is occurring. The EU’s share of world GDP is forecast to decline to 22% in 2025, down from 37% in 1973.
-Norway and Switzerland are not in the EU, yet they export far more per capita to the EU than the UK does; this suggests that EU membership is not a prerequisite for a healthy trading relationship.
-Furthermore, Britain’s best trading relationships are generally not within the EU, but outside, i.e. with countries such as the USA and Switzerland.
-The largest investor in the UK is not even an EU country, but the US.

FOURTH MYTH: THE EU IS MOVING TOWARDS THE UK’S POSITION ON CUTTING REGULATION AND BUREAUCRACY

-EU directives are subject to a ‘rachet’ effect – i.e. once in place they are highly unlikely to be reformed or repealed.

-Less than 15% of Britain’s GDP represents trade with the EU yet Brussels regulations afflict 100% of our economy (the 5th largest in the world)
-Over 70% of the UK’s GDP is generated within the UK, but still subject to EU law.
-In 2006 it was estimated that EU over-regulation costs 600bn Euros across the EU each year.
-In 2010, Open Europe estimated EU regulation had cost Britain £124 billion since 1998.
-Whilst red tape savings are not direct cash savings, deregulation would result in a true ‘bonfire of regulations’ that could fund either sizeable tax cuts or additional public spending.

FIFTH MYTH: IF WE LEAVE, BRITAIN WILL HAVE TO PAY BILLIONS TO THE EU AND IMPLEMENT ALL ITS REGULATIONS WITHOUT HAVING A SAY

-We have very little say within the EU, and would have far more leverage outside EU as an independent sovereign nation and the world’s 5th largest economy.
-The UK currently has only 8.4% of voting power ‘say’ in the EU, and the Lisbon Treaty ensured the loss of Britain’s veto in many more policy areas.
-Britain’s 73 MEPs are a minority within the 751 in the European Parliament.
-With further enlargement (Croatia, Turkey’s 79 million citizens), British influence would be further watered down.
-As for continuing contributions by an independent Britain, Swiss and Norwegian examples show that the UK would achieve substantial net savings.

SWISS CASE STUDY:
Official Swiss government figures conclude that through their trade agreements with the EU, the Swiss pay the EU under 600 million Swiss Francs a year, but enjoy virtually free access to the EU market. The Swiss have estimated that full EU membership would cost Switzerland net payments of 3.4 billion Swiss francs a year.

NORWAY CASE STUDY:

Norway only had to make relatively few changes to its laws to make its products eligible for the EU marketplace. In 2009, the Norwegian Mission to the EU estimated that Norway’s total financial contribution linked to their EEA (European Economic Area) agreement is some 340 mn Euros a years, of which some 110mn Euros are contributions related to the participation in various EU programmes. However, this is a fraction of the gross annual cost that Britain must pay for EU membership which is now £18.4bn, or £51mn a day.

SIXTH MYTH: THE EU HAVE BROUGHT PEACE TO THE EUROPEAN CONTINENT

The Reality:
-Even now, the EU is only 28 nations of the 47 European nations listed as national members of the Council of Europe.
-The forerunner to the EU, the Common Market, didn’t come into existence until 1958, and then only with 6 nations, and yet there was no war between European countries from 1945 to 1956 (except the Hungarian revolution). Whilst peaceful international cooperation is welcomed at all levels, to say the EU is the sole guarantor of peace is an extreme exaggeration that is dishonest in its application.
-It is NATO, founded in 1949 and dominated by the USA, and not the EU, that has actually kept the peace in Europe, together with parliamentary democracy. Both of which are being undermined by the EU.
-The former German President Herzog wrote a few years ago that ‘the question has to be raised of whether Germany can still unreservedly be called a parliamentary democracy’. This was owing to the number of German laws emanating from the EU- which he assessed at some 84%.
-The break up of Yugoslavia was a major test of the EU’s ability to keep the peace. It was EU interference that helped trigger a major civil war and its dithering contributed to deaths of some 100,000 people. It was only decisive action by the US/NATO forces that stopped the violence. Peace was established by the US-brokered Dayton Agreement.

SEVENTH MYTH: THE EU HAS A POSITIVE IMPACT ON THE BRITISH ECONOMY

-British industries such as fishing, farming, postal services and manufacturing have already been devastated by Britain’s membership of the EU.
-EU membership costs UK billions of pounds and large numbers of lost jobs thanks to unnecessary and excessive red tape, substantial membership and aid contributions, inflated consumer prices and other associated costs.

– The Common Fisheries Policy has cost British coastal communities 115,000 jobs (Lee Rotherham, 10 years on)

EIGHT MYTH: BRITAIN WILL LOSE VITAL FOREIGN INVESTMENT AS A CONSEQUENCE OF LEAVING THE EU

-In a 2010 survey on UK’s attractiveness to foreign investors, Ernst and Young found Britain remained the number one Foreign Direct Investment (FDI) destination in Europe owing largely to the City of London and the UK’s close corporate relationship with the US. EU membership was not mentioned at all in their table of key investment factors, which were (in order of importance): UK culture and values and the English language; telecommunications infrastructure; quality of life; stable social environment, and transport and logistics infrastructure.

-In any case, open access to the EU market would continue through a Free Trade Agreement in the manner of Switzerland and Norway whilst the UK would gain from higher growth, less regulation, more public spending and/or lower taxes and more suitable trade deals.

NINTH MYTH: BRITAIN WILL LOSE ALL INFLUENCE IN THE WORLD BY BEING OUTSIDE THE EU
-Britain has a substantial ‘portfolio of power’ in its own right, which includes membership of the G20 and G8 Nations, a permanent seat on the UN Security Council (one of only 5 members) and seats on the International Monetary Fund Board of Governors and World Trade Organisation.
-The UK also lies at heart of the Commonwealth of 53 nations. Moreover, London is the financial capital of the world and Britain has the sixth largest economy. The UK is also in the top ten manufacturing nations in the world.
-Far from increasing British influence in the world, the EU is undermining UK influence. The EU is demanding there is a single voice for the EU in the UN and in the IMF. The EU has also made the British economy and City of London less competitive through overregulation, and negotiates more protectionist and less effective trade deals on behalf of the UK.
-The European External Action Service (EEAS) and its EU ‘Foreign Minister’ Federica Mogherini are undermining national diplomatic representation and the furtherance of British political and commercial interests through British embassies, which are being closed or downsized around the world.
-The Commonwealth is increasingly discriminated against by the EU policy on visas, so that non-EU Commonwealth citizens face having to obtain visas whilst citizens of even new EU entrants have automatic entry. Historic Commonwealth bonds with Britain are being lost.

TENTH MYTH: LEGALLY, BRITAIN CANNOT LEAVE THE EU

-Technically, Britain could leave the EU in a single day. Legislatively, this would be achieved simply by repealing the European Communities Act 1972 and its attendant Amendment Acts through a single clause Bill passing through Westminster.
-If the British people voted to leave in an In/Out referendum or by voting in a party with EU withdrawal on its manifesto, Parliament would have to respect the will of the British people and there would be no justification for delay or obstruction in either House.
-However, the process of setting up a replacement UK/EU Free Trade Agreement will take longer, though there would be no need for time-consuming negotiation of tariff reductions if the UK/EU Free Trade Agreement merely replicated existing EU trade arrangements.
-In addition, even the Lisbon Treaty’s Article 50 enshrines the right of member states to leave the Union, albeit in an unattractive manner. The same article requires the EU to seek a free trade deal with a member which leaves. Greenland established a precedent for a sovereign nation by leaving the EEC in 1985, and is prospering well outside of it. With Westminster still sovereign (for the moment), it is the British Parliament who will decide how and when Britain leaves the EU

http://www.betteroffout.net/the-case/10-eu-myths-about-withdrawl/
 
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yet none of the companies that have threatened to close if brexit happened have actually done so :)

The UK would be better of without the poorer area of scotland and north ireland but the scots and irish know that so wouldnt want to break away :)
 
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