Muslim "apologists" and the Reichstag fire

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The folks on the left who fools on the right call "Muslim apologists" likely aren't religious, or care much about the religion itself. They just care about rights, and not ascribing the guilt of an individual to millions of people.

Because that's happened before. Hitler did it w/ the Reichstag fire, and we ended up w/ WWII and the Holocaust.

Some learn from history, and some don't. It wasn't that long ago.
 
Thing1 said:
The folks on the left who fools on the right call "Muslim apologists" likely aren't religious, or care much about the religion itself. They just care about rights, and not ascribing the guilt of an individual to millions of people.

Because that's happened before. Hitler did it w/ the Reichstag fire, and we ended up w/ WWII and the Holocaust.

Some learn from history, and some don't. It wasn't that long ago.
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Big difference is no event needs to be wrongly ascribed to Muslims to whip-up animosity for them.

All one needs to do is listen to them and be aware of their actions and one can make a safe assessment.
 
Donald Trump tweeting right now that he was right about this being Islamic Terrorism. No one knows that yet. IMO he is disqualified from the Presidency. Even if he turns out to be right. It doesn't matter. You don't shoot your mouth off until the facts are in. He is going to get people killed. He is a hate monger. Hitlerlesque? I really don't know. Hitler wasn't Hitler until he gained power and became Hitler either.
 
Darla said:
Donald Trump tweeting right now that he was right about this being Islamic Terrorism. No one knows that yet. IMO he is disqualified from the Presidency. Even if he turns out to be right. It doesn't matter. You don't shoot your mouth off until the facts are in. He is going to get people killed. He is a hate monger. Hitlerlesque? I really don't know. Hitler wasn't Hitler until he gained power and became Hitler either.
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He did the same thing w/ the Egyptian airliner. How anyone can think that's a good temperament for a CIC is beyond me. His braindead supporters justify it by saying he's not "being pc." That's one of Trump's biggest accomplishments, imo - completely redefining "pc."

People balk at the Hitler comparison, but it's the right one. It doesn't mean that Trump is capable of the kind of evil that created the Holocaust (but who knows). It just means that he displays the same blind nationalism, the same demagoguery, the same appeal to our worst instincts and prejudices. To me, what's happening in & around his campaign is eerily similar to '30's Germany.
 
Thing1 said:
The folks on the left who fools on the right call "Muslim apologists" likely aren't religious, or care much about the religion itself. They just care about rights, and not ascribing the guilt of an individual to millions of people.

Because that's happened before. Hitler did it w/ the Reichstag fire, and we ended up w/ WWII and the Holocaust.

Some learn from history, and some don't. It wasn't that long ago.
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see if this was an isolated case then i would be right there with you.

but its happening over and over and over and over again.

I for one think there is something with islam that makes it incompatible with the west.
 
Thing1 said:
He did the same thing w/ the Egyptian airliner. How anyone can think that's a good temperament for a CIC is beyond me. His braindead supporters justify it by saying he's not "being pc." That's one of Trump's biggest accomplishments, imo - completely redefining "pc."

People balk at the Hitler comparison, but it's the right one. It doesn't mean that Trump is capable of the kind of evil that created the Holocaust (but who knows). It just means that he displays the same blind nationalism, the same demagoguery, the same appeal to our worst instincts and prejudices. To me, what's happening in & around his campaign is eerily similar to '30's Germany.
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I agree.
 
Abatis said:
Big difference is no event needs to be wrongly ascribed to Muslims to whip-up animosity for them. All one needs to do is listen to them and be aware of their actions and one can make a safe assessment.
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I feel the same way about all religious extremists, yet you only want to focus on Muslims.
 
tsuke said:
see if this was an isolated case then i would be right there with you.

but its happening over and over and over and over again.

I for one think there is something with islam that makes it incompatible with the west.
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It's happening repeatedly because there is a relatively small group of terrorists who have hijacked the religion & use it for their agenda.

Most Muslims are horrified by ISIS. There was just an essay on CNN last week about a guy who had joined them early on, and left when he realized that they had nothing to do w/ Islam and were completely perverting its tenets.

Again, I'm not a big fan of religion in general. I hate how it is used & how it has been used. But one of the most basic principles of justice is "innocent until proven guilty," and when people start saying you're guilty just because you share the same religion (in name) as a terrorist, it's a problem.
 
It's interesting that some want to ban the adherents of a religion (unconstitutional) but don't want any limits on the availability of weaponry.
 
Thing1 said:
It's happening repeatedly because there is a relatively small group of terrorists who have hijacked the religion & use it for their agenda.

Most Muslims are horrified by ISIS. There was just an essay on CNN last week about a guy who had joined them early on, and left when he realized that they had nothing to do w/ Islam and were completely perverting its tenets.

Again, I'm not a big fan of religion in general. I hate how it is used & how it has been used. But one of the most basic principles of justice is "innocent until proven guilty," and when people start saying you're guilty just because you share the same religion (in name) as a terrorist, it's a problem.
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well maybe their neighbors , clerics, etc can give them up when they plan something like they did to the guy in brussels. ohwait.
 
Thing1 said:
It's happening repeatedly because there is a relatively small group of terrorists who have hijacked the religion & use it for their agenda.

Most Muslims are horrified by ISIS. There was just an essay on CNN last week about a guy who had joined them early on, and left when he realized that they had nothing to do w/ Islam and were completely perverting its tenets.

Again, I'm not a big fan of religion in general. I hate how it is used & how it has been used. But one of the most basic principles of justice is "innocent until proven guilty," and when people start saying you're guilty just because you share the same religion (in name) as a terrorist, it's a problem.
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There are always people like you who say that ISIS has nothing to do with Islam. That is total bollocks, they are very much adhering to Muhammad ibn ʿAbd al-Wahhab and the sect named after him!! Maybe you will believe HuffPost?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alastair-crooke/isis-wahhabism-saudi-arabia_b_5717157.html
 
Milagro said:
There are always people like you who say that ISIS has nothing to do with Islam. That is total bollocks, they are very much adhering to Muhammad ibn ʿAbd al-Wahhab and the sect named after him!! Maybe you will believe HuffPost?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/alastair-crooke/isis-wahhabism-saudi-arabia_b_5717157.html
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Christian extremists (like the KKK) had the same sort of associations. There was just a prominent Christian preacher a few months back, at an event Cruz spoke at, who said it was in scripture that homosexuals should be put to death.

If ISIS represents Islam, why aren't MOST Muslims adhering to the same tenets? Why aren't most violent?

People deserve to be judged individually. If you jump on the Trump bandwagon, and start supporting bans on Muslims, then limiting their rights, then taking their rights away, then...who knows? Concentration camps maybe?

Then you're no different from the average German enabler of Hitler in the '30's. Like I said in the OP, we've seen this movie before.
 
Thing1 said:
It's happening repeatedly because there is a relatively small group of terrorists who have hijacked the religion & use it for their agenda.

Most Muslims are horrified by ISIS. There was just an essay on CNN last week about a guy who had joined them early on, and left when he realized that they had nothing to do w/ Islam and were completely perverting its tenets.

Again, I'm not a big fan of religion in general. I hate how it is used & how it has been used. But one of the most basic principles of justice is "innocent until proven guilty," and when people start saying you're guilty just because you share the same religion (in name) as a terrorist, it's a problem.
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Who says all Muslims are guilty? Nice strawman you have there.
 
Thing1 said:
Christian extremists (like the KKK) had the same sort of associations. There was just a prominent Christian preacher a few months back, at an event Cruz spoke at, who said it was in scripture that homosexuals should be put to death.

If ISIS represents Islam, why aren't MOST Muslims adhering to the same tenets? Why aren't most violent?

People deserve to be judged individually. If you jump on the Trump bandwagon, and start supporting bans on Muslims, then limiting their rights, then taking their rights away, then...who knows? Concentration camps maybe?

Then you're no different from the average German enabler of Hitler in the '30's. Like I said in the OP, we've seen this movie before.
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Give me a break!! Don't you think people over here in the UK know a thing or two about Islam and Muslims?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salafi_movement
 
Thing1 said:
Christian extremists (like the KKK) had the same sort of associations. There was just a prominent Christian preacher a few months back, at an event Cruz spoke at, who said it was in scripture that homosexuals should be put to death.

If ISIS represents Islam, why aren't MOST Muslims adhering to the same tenets? Why aren't most violent?

People deserve to be judged individually. If you jump on the Trump bandwagon, and start supporting bans on Muslims, then limiting their rights, then taking their rights away, then...who knows? Concentration camps maybe?

Then you're no different from the average German enabler of Hitler in the '30's. Like I said in the OP, we've seen this movie before.
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The only way this ends is if the nonviolent ones feel the violent ones are causing so much damage to their reputation that they actively disavow them. Im not talking about a condemnation or two. Im talking about them giving up the violent ones. The only way they are effective is because they are able to hide in the crowd of the non violent ones remove that by alienating them from each other and making the non violent ones hate the violent ones.

Bush and Obama both tried the carrot. It wasnt the muslims fault only extremists etc etc. Yet we have more attacks now than ever. Time for the stick.
 
Trump walked his "total shutdown on Muslims" promise back, didn't he? Now it's just a "suggestion".


Hard to see how that's not like the characterization of "foreigners" immigrants" and "Jews" from the Thirties.
 
tsuke said:
The only way this ends is if the nonviolent ones feel the violent ones are causing so much damage to their reputation that they actively disavow them. Im not talking about a condemnation or two. Im talking about them giving up the violent ones. The only way they are effective is because they are able to hide in the crowd of the non violent ones remove that by alienating them from each other and making the non violent ones hate the violent ones.

Bush and Obama both tried the carrot. It wasnt the muslims fault only extremists etc etc. Yet we have more attacks now than ever. Time for the stick.
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What stick? What are you suggesting?
 
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