Here’s why Trump’s foreign policy terrifies neocons

anatta

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Most of my former colleagues at the State Department will be appalled by the assertion, but much of the media-fed angst about Donald Trump’s dearth of foreign policy expertise is contrived.

Our cadre of neoconservative foreign policy experts, unhumbled after marching us into a reckless war in Iraq and a poorly conceived one in Afghanistan, who applauded as we bombed Libya and bitterly resent our having failed to bomb Bashar al-Assad in Syria, are frightened. Wisely, they often focus on comments that Trump has made on issues that are of less genuine interest to them — from his strident stance on immigration to his “threat” to our liberties to his sometimes deplorable commentary about women and some minorities. But what really troubles them is his generally level-headed and unmessianic attitude toward foreign affairs. Trump has no desire to make the rest of the world in our image; he is concerned only about the world not making America in its image.

The neocons bemoan Trump’s rejection of a global role for the United States, but Trump has no intent to withdraw the United States from the world stage. He only rejects the wanton use of our young men and women on foreign adventures of questionable value.

The neocons have two clear foreign policy objectives, and Trump may grant them neither. For many of them, their deepest yearning, ungranted even in the waning days of the George W. Bush presidency, is an air campaign against Iran. Trump doesn’t like the Iran nuclear agreement, but his instinct is to make a better deal rather than attacking, while Hillary Clinton has a strong record of supporting the prodigal misuse of military force. Clinton is just another neocon, though wrapped in sheep’s clothing — just as on some foreign policy issues Trump is little more than Bernie Sanders in wolf’s clothing.

But clothing makes a huge difference. Most Americans don’t want the United States to be disrespected, and they want a muscular military that doesn’t take any nonsense — but they also don’t want military adventurism. Trump succeeds in having it both ways: He reassures that the United States will be respected and also that we will not employ our troops as cannon fodder on distant battlefields. Underneath all the tirades against illegal immigration and the need to be tough with our adversaries, there is an inward focus. There is a sense that America — in order to be great again — needs to relinquish its role as global cop and tend first to its needs at home. By sounding caustic, Trump is able to appear more militaristic and tougher than the far more reckless Clinton. Calculating and cavalier, Clinton would agree with her old pal, then-U.N. Ambassador Madeleine Albright: “What’s the point of having this superb military . . . if we can’t use it?” The stern rebuke to that question later provided by Gen. Colin Powell that the military is not a toy is lost on the neocons and Clinton. Among Clinton’s weaknesses, her fear of appearing weak may be her most damning.

The second neocon priority? A new Cold War with Russia. Vladi*mir Putin, unlikable and increasingly uncooperative and antagonistic, admittedly makes this objective more within reach, but Trump might avoid it as well. Clinton repeats over and over that Russia only understands a tough and determined opponent, while Trump may have a more sophisticated and mature approach. Far less petulant than most of the former Republican candidates, Trump says he would actually talk with Putin. That takes real courage given the general view among Republican elites. Contrast that with Clinton, who thinks we should not be talking too much to Putin and that we ought to further expand NATO because , in her view, Russia would be an even greater threat had it not been for NATO expansion.:palm:
Of course, to admit that NATO expansion triggered the current crisis would be admitting that her husband is largely responsible for it. Trump seems to understand George Kennan’s warning that NATO expansion would directly lead to a more paranoid and aggressive Russia.


During an ambassadorial conference in 2014, a former colleague breathlessly characterized the Ukraine crisis in neocon terms as a Manichean struggle between good and evil. Such comic-book notions now dominate our political discourse, distorting reality and making it nearly impossible to objectively assess complex issues. Trump, for all his bizarre commentary on domestic issues, better grasps the subtleties of global politics and the dangers of thinking ourselves infallible and invincible.

It’s quite an irony: The ostensibly more reckless, infantile, inexperienced and bombastic candidate may actually be more mature, level-headed and reasonable on foreign policy than his critics, who, against all the good advice our parents gave us as children, pout and refuse to talk to those they don’t like, escalate arguments to violence when they are upset, lack any remorse for the harm caused by their past opinions and actions, and fail repeatedly to see that there might be two sides to any disagreement.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...hpid=hp_no-name_opinion-card-f:homepage/story
 
what i find most disturbing about the neocon perspective is that it insists on labeling Russia as the enemy that must be thwarted at every turn. History has proven over and over that Americas previous enemies such as Britain, Japan, and Germany end up being her strongest allies in the future.

I mean you can theoretically do that with north korea or iran. They are minor states after all and can be discounted. Russia however is a legitimate world power and to automatically assume they are the enemy and cannot be reasoned with is just dangerous.
 
what i find most disturbing about the neocon perspective is that it insists on labeling Russia as the enemy that must be thwarted at every turn. History has proven over and over that Americas previous enemies such as Britain, Japan, and Germany end up being her strongest allies in the future.

I mean you can theoretically do that with north korea or iran. They are minor states after all and can be discounted. Russia however is a legitimate world power and to automatically assume they are the enemy and cannot be reasoned with is just dangerous.
NATO expansion was the problem, along with not recognizing Russia's legitimate sphere's of influence .But we still wanted cooperation on terrorism.
That's why the "Russian reset" was bound to fail.

Which is not to excuse Putin's imperialism either, but a lot of this was forced moves.
both sides got sucked back into another de facto cold war

20141124_NATO_0.jpg
 
"But clothing makes a huge difference. Most Americans don’t want the United States to be disrespected, and they want a muscular military that doesn’t take any nonsense — but they also don’t want military adventurism. Trump succeeds in having it both ways: He reassures that the United States will be respected and also that we will not employ our troops as cannon fodder on distant battlefields. Underneath all the tirades against illegal immigration and the need to be tough with our adversaries, there is an inward focus. There is a sense that America — in order to be great again — needs to relinquish its role as global cop and tend first to its needs at home." [from OP link]

When his critics say Trumps foreign policy is 'incoherent' the above is what they are referring to. He manages to borrow from isolationism without forsaking the diplomatic benefits of a powerful military. Trump walks the tight rope between isolationism and interventism.

It's one of the reasons I'm plan on voting for him despite the fact he's prone to saying stupid things lol. Trump has the potential for an upside that just isn't there with Hillary.

'Making America great again' isn't just a vacuous campaign slogan to him---he has practical ideas in how to make it happen.
 
"But clothing makes a huge difference. Most Americans don’t want the United States to be disrespected, and they want a muscular military that doesn’t take any nonsense — but they also don’t want military adventurism. Trump succeeds in having it both ways: He reassures that the United States will be respected and also that we will not employ our troops as cannon fodder on distant battlefields. Underneath all the tirades against illegal immigration and the need to be tough with our adversaries, there is an inward focus. There is a sense that America — in order to be great again — needs to relinquish its role as global cop and tend first to its needs at home." [from OP link]

When his critics say Trumps foreign policy is 'incoherent' the above is what they are referring to. He manages to borrow from isolationism without forsaking the diplomatic benefits of a powerful military. Trump walks the tight rope between isolationism and interventism.

It's one of the reasons I'm plan on voting for him despite the fact he's prone to saying stupid things lol. Trump has the potential for an upside that just isn't there with Hillary.

'Making America great again' isn't just a vacuous campaign slogan to him---he has practical ideas in how to make it happen.

Just like Mitt, the Donald could close the factories he owns in China and"bring the jobs back".
 
I'd take Trump over Clinton any day of the week in terms of foreign policy. I do not believe he would withdrawal from NATO.
I do not believe he would withdrawal from Korea -hell he might even get a better "deal" ..

In domestic politics the Clintonsitas like to point to how bad Trump is..but when it comes to foreign policy -as even Bernie said -
one cannot trust HRClinton's "judgment". As the OPs hows above, she is the consummate warhawk
 
what i find most disturbing about the neocon perspective is that it insists on labeling Russia as the enemy that must be thwarted at every turn. History has proven over and over that Americas previous enemies such as Britain, Japan, and Germany end up being her strongest allies in the future.

I mean you can theoretically do that with north korea or iran. They are minor states after all and can be discounted. Russia however is a legitimate world power and to automatically assume they are the enemy and cannot be reasoned with is just dangerous.
Agreed on all counts about the Neocons, and Clintons hawkish reputation but I doubt Trump is the answer.

Of even graver concern is China's growing power and the infintile Neocon attitude towards China. China must be dealt with in the Pacific region with a strong military presence but the Neoconservative approach would be nothing short of insane.

Simply stated the Neocons unilateralism in regards to China would not only not work but would be dangerously irresponsible.
 
I'd take Trump over Clinton any day of the week in terms of foreign policy. I do not believe he would withdrawal from NATO.
I do not believe he would withdrawal from Korea -hell he might even get a better "deal" ..

In domestic politics the Clintonsitas like to point to how bad Trump is..but when it comes to foreign policy -as even Bernie said -
one cannot trust HRClinton's "judgment". As the OPs hows above, she is the consummate warhawk
Trump is a neophyte on foreign policy and a complete amateur. That is incredibly dangerous unless Trump assures the American public that he will surround himself by serious professionals. I may not agree with Clinton on foreign policy and her support of the Iraq war shows a serious lack of judgment but she is neither a Neocon nor an amateur.
 
Trump is a neophyte on foreign policy and a complete amateur. That is incredibly dangerous unless Trump assures the American public that he will surround himself by serious professionals. I may not agree with Clinton on foreign policy and her support of the Iraq war shows a serious lack of judgment but she is neither a Neocon nor an amateur.

Telling me she is not a neocon when all her instincts and actions are one of a neocon ( spreading democracy at the barrel of a gun)
isn't useful.
Like Bernie said she has a resume' a mile long ,and nothing to show for it but warhawing/interventionism as sec of State,
does make her 'judgement judged' as lacking. It's horrid. And her defense of "smart power" shows she still is clueless.

After Iraq there was Syria and the grand screw up of Libya where she was chief architect and advocate that created a failed terrorist state.
so start there with her "experience"

The very nature of the presidency surrounds the person with the WH NSC, DNI, and CIA
 
Trump is a neophyte on foreign policy and a complete amateur. That is incredibly dangerous unless Trump assures the American public that he will surround himself by serious professionals. I may not agree with Clinton on foreign policy and her support of the Iraq war shows a serious lack of judgment but she is neither a Neocon nor an amateur.

I presume you voted for the rank amateur in 2008 lol?

Yes, Trump is a foreign policy amatuer, but he is not a naive amatuer that is out to make the world like us; nor is he ideologically committed to using our military might to spread democracy. He does want to restore out military, but not for purposes of intervention.

I'm not sure why [apart from having a case of Trump-hate] anyone would have a problem with that after the last 15 years.
 
Off topic a bit but there was a bill in the Senate to fund the military (?) as overseas contingency ops.

The AF is literally cannibalizing planes to keep them flying -using museum pieces for parts, or grounded planes for the same.

Reid wanted a Democratic bill passed ( spending more money) to pay for...wait for it..Zika, and a few other things
Everything was off books, and the bill crash landed yesterday.
 
It’s quite an irony: The ostensibly more reckless, infantile, inexperienced and bombastic candidate may actually be more mature, level-headed and reasonable on foreign policy than his critics, who, against all the good advice our parents gave us as children, pout and refuse to talk to those they don’t like, escalate arguments to violence when they are upset, lack any remorse for the harm caused by their past opinions and actions, and fail repeatedly to see that there might be two sides to any disagreement.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opin...hpid=hp_no-name_opinion-card-f:homepage/story

Trump is an ass- but he's an ass that knows his function. Billary would revel in her microsecond of Mephistophelean power before we're all incinerated.
 
Trump might alienate world leaders, HRClinton would 'take action'

Trump would aleinate them with words instead of bombs lol.

One of the things that worries me about Trump is it's possible he's a man of bluster and not action. It remains to be seen what he would actually 'do' if push came to shove; or whether he would give one of Obama's red lines.

I also think he's anxious to talk to Putin. I don't know that it would accomplish much because Putin has his own agenda and interests. But, unlike the Iranian mullahs, Putin is at least sane so he can be reasoned with.

The Iranians aren't worth talking to because they are going to lie to you.
 
Trump would aleinate them with words instead of bombs lol.

One of the things that worries me about Trump is it's possible he's a man of bluster and not action. It remains to be seen what he would actually 'do' if push came to shove; or whether he would give one of Obama's red lines.

I also think he's anxious to talk to Putin. I don't know that it would accomplish much because Putin has his own agenda and interests. But, unlike the Iranian mullahs, Putin is at least sane so he can be reasoned with.

The Iranians aren't worth talking to because they are going to lie to you.
IRan is not going to deal with the USA, except on it's own terms
Talking is fine, but Iran is bent on hegemony.
So is Putin,but Putin can be controlled given respect for Russian sphere's. Iran already has influence and a bettering economy .
Russia needs economic relief
 
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