christiefan915
Catalyst
There must have been some nuance in his comments that we're unaware of because it is contradictory.
Bernie Sanders - Whites don't know what it's like to be poor
- Thread starter cawacko
- Start date
There must have been some nuance in his comments that we're unaware of because it is contradictory.
cawacko
Well-known member
You can read his quote in the OP. It's been getting a bunch of coverage today. He (and Hillary) was asked what 'race blinders' he has on. He said whites don't know what it's like to live in the ghetto and be poor. So he pissed off black people by suggesting they all lived in the ghetto. And of course white people know what it's like to be poor.
He's trying to make up lost ground among blacks to Hillary and this answer helped shows why he's trailing.
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This is an example of what I would call "politically correct." Not the Trump version, which is mocking a disabled guy or suggesting that a woman is menstruating.
I heard the context of his remarks after I read the quote, and I got what he was trying to say. It wasn't as clear cut as the isolated quote at face value.
I heard the context of his remarks after I read the quote, and I got what he was trying to say. It wasn't as clear cut as the isolated quote at face value.
cawacko
Well-known member
There were a number of black people upset at his comment so while he might have tried to be 'politically correct' he came off insulting them.
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That doesn't surprise me. It's who we are now.
What he said shouldn't have been offensive. It was clumsy, but it shouldn't have been offensive.
christiefan915
Catalyst
That's what I was thinking.
cawacko
Well-known member
Even MSNBC calls out Bernie's statement.
‘Ghetto’ gaffe highlights Bernie Sanders campaign’s struggle with race
http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/bernie-sanders-ghetto-gaffe-highlights-campaigns-struggle-race
‘Ghetto’ gaffe highlights Bernie Sanders campaign’s struggle with race
http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/bernie-sanders-ghetto-gaffe-highlights-campaigns-struggle-race
christiefan915
Catalyst
I'm not going to criticize people for how they took that comment. I think it was awkwardly stated, maybe a bit clueless, but I don't assign evil intent to it. He didn't seem to be blaming people for their poverty.
cawacko
Well-known member
I grew up in Oakland, CA and I had a number of black friends/classmates that were middle to upper middle class. They did not grow up in the ghetto. I can see why black people wouldn't like it.
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My take on it was that he was talking specifically about the inner city experience - not just dealing w/ poverty, but with things like "stop & frisk" and all that.
"It's a black thing - you wouldn't understand." That used to be a slogan of sorts. That's essentially what he was getting it, but again, it came out pretty clumsy. He knows there are poor white people.
"It's a black thing - you wouldn't understand." That used to be a slogan of sorts. That's essentially what he was getting it, but again, it came out pretty clumsy. He knows there are poor white people.
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Honestly, I don't think there is anything about what he said - even at its most basic/face value interpretation - that was saying there are no middle or upper class blacks.
This is really the kind of stuff I just think is too much. There is real racism out there. This ain't it.
cawacko
Well-known member
Those shirts were popular when I was in high school. A number of classmates used to wear them.
christiefan915
Catalyst
I grew up in Pittsburgh and the black population is about 28%. I had/have friends like yours, but I've also seen the racism here that never goes away.
cawacko
Well-known member
From a political perspective he's often viewed as this old white dude coming from an all white state that isn't in touch with blacks and minorities. That can be debated of course but comments like this don't help him overcome that image and his percentage of the black vote is quite small.
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Well, I'd agree with that. He really dates himself with "ghetto" (which shouldn't offend people, but it's a really old-school term for sure).
Totally off topic, but I watched that thing on the Nixon/Kennedy race last night on CNN. It was fascinating in that Nixon was good friends with MLK, and Republicans used to really get most of the black vote. Most of the KKK guys at that time were Democrats. Kennedy really changed all that.
Times have really changed.
cawacko
Well-known member
Here's a viewpoint that is not an isolated one in the black community towards Sanders comment.
Bernie's Blind Spot: Debate Answer on Race Perfectly Demonstrates Perils of Conflating Race with Class
At last night's Democratic debate in Flint, Michigan, the candidates were asked about their racial blind spots. Hillary Clinton gave the clearest answer possible: black and white Americans have different experiences. "I can’t pretend to have the experience that you have had and others have had", she said.
Bernie Sanders, for his part, went for that one issue he rehearses for every debate, class. Conflating race with economics, Sanders came up with this doozie:
“to answer your question, I would say, and I think it’s similar to what the secretary said, when you’re white, you don’t know what it’s like to be living in a ghetto. You don’t know what it’s like to be poor.”
— Bernie Sanders
I was floored. This is absolutely stunning. There are no white people in "ghettos?" Only black people are poor? Sanders' answer about his racial blind spot, it would seem, was itself generated from that blind spot, and that blind spot is the size of Texas.
While he tried to walk it back a little at today's Democratic townhall hosted by Fox News, this is Bernie's key blindness: he believes that class is supreme, and therefore, as a corollary, everything must be related to economic issues. Therefore to him, the black experience is defined by ghettos and poverty, and white experience is defined by the lack thereof.
That view is, of course, glaringly false. I could say a lot here, but I believe a comment from "Keithinohio" illuminates the inaccuracy stunningly well.
“Really Bernie? “Being white one has no experience about Ghetto life”? Cmon dude......there is a large Black middle class in this country or did you not get the memo? Bernie have you been to Appalachia in West Virginia and Eastern Kentucky? Or rural Tennessee, Louisiana, Georgia, Alabama, or Mississippi? There are millions of poor working class whites as well not to mention their are more white Americans on Welfare than any other racial group.”
— "Keith in Ohio"
The idea that there are few, if any, differences between the experiences of white and black Americans than those related to economic status is painfully offensive. It not only denies race as the basis of the most pernicious forms of bigotry and ignores the full range of black experience in America when it comes to financial well being, it also enables a racist system of blaming poverty itself on black and brown people.
It tells black people that their experiences would change if only they made a little more money. The idea here is that deep-seated social and institutional racism are essentially myths, and that economic improvements would alter the experience of a black Harvard professor being arrested for attempting to enter his own home or a of a black woman dragged out of her car on her way to a new attractive job and later dying in police custody. That idea is not just wrong, it's a version of telling black people to just "get a job."
It also tells whites that it is right to blame black people for poverty-stricken neighborhoods and white poverty itself, since "ghettos" are supposedly a black thing now. What's more, this wasn't the only part of the debate Sanders eluded to this concept. At one point, Sanders made a reference to a prosperous Detroit in 1960, seemingly unaware that it was a time when Detroit was a white city and before the Civil Rights movement, riots, and white flight.
I say seemingly, because it is impossible to know if this scathing racial indifference on the part of Sen. Sanders is willful or simply ignorant. But I would posit that at this point, that is a distinction without a difference. Bernie Sanders' devastating failure as a candidate to look beyond his narrow focus of economics as panacea and to social justice as a distinct, more essential and broader issue than economic equality makes him ill suited to be President of the United States.
http://www.thepeoplesview.net/main/2016/3/7/flint-debate-bernie-ghettoizes-black-america
Bernie's Blind Spot: Debate Answer on Race Perfectly Demonstrates Perils of Conflating Race with Class
At last night's Democratic debate in Flint, Michigan, the candidates were asked about their racial blind spots. Hillary Clinton gave the clearest answer possible: black and white Americans have different experiences. "I can’t pretend to have the experience that you have had and others have had", she said.
Bernie Sanders, for his part, went for that one issue he rehearses for every debate, class. Conflating race with economics, Sanders came up with this doozie:
“to answer your question, I would say, and I think it’s similar to what the secretary said, when you’re white, you don’t know what it’s like to be living in a ghetto. You don’t know what it’s like to be poor.”
— Bernie Sanders
I was floored. This is absolutely stunning. There are no white people in "ghettos?" Only black people are poor? Sanders' answer about his racial blind spot, it would seem, was itself generated from that blind spot, and that blind spot is the size of Texas.
While he tried to walk it back a little at today's Democratic townhall hosted by Fox News, this is Bernie's key blindness: he believes that class is supreme, and therefore, as a corollary, everything must be related to economic issues. Therefore to him, the black experience is defined by ghettos and poverty, and white experience is defined by the lack thereof.
That view is, of course, glaringly false. I could say a lot here, but I believe a comment from "Keithinohio" illuminates the inaccuracy stunningly well.
“Really Bernie? “Being white one has no experience about Ghetto life”? Cmon dude......there is a large Black middle class in this country or did you not get the memo? Bernie have you been to Appalachia in West Virginia and Eastern Kentucky? Or rural Tennessee, Louisiana, Georgia, Alabama, or Mississippi? There are millions of poor working class whites as well not to mention their are more white Americans on Welfare than any other racial group.”
— "Keith in Ohio"
The idea that there are few, if any, differences between the experiences of white and black Americans than those related to economic status is painfully offensive. It not only denies race as the basis of the most pernicious forms of bigotry and ignores the full range of black experience in America when it comes to financial well being, it also enables a racist system of blaming poverty itself on black and brown people.
It tells black people that their experiences would change if only they made a little more money. The idea here is that deep-seated social and institutional racism are essentially myths, and that economic improvements would alter the experience of a black Harvard professor being arrested for attempting to enter his own home or a of a black woman dragged out of her car on her way to a new attractive job and later dying in police custody. That idea is not just wrong, it's a version of telling black people to just "get a job."
It also tells whites that it is right to blame black people for poverty-stricken neighborhoods and white poverty itself, since "ghettos" are supposedly a black thing now. What's more, this wasn't the only part of the debate Sanders eluded to this concept. At one point, Sanders made a reference to a prosperous Detroit in 1960, seemingly unaware that it was a time when Detroit was a white city and before the Civil Rights movement, riots, and white flight.
I say seemingly, because it is impossible to know if this scathing racial indifference on the part of Sen. Sanders is willful or simply ignorant. But I would posit that at this point, that is a distinction without a difference. Bernie Sanders' devastating failure as a candidate to look beyond his narrow focus of economics as panacea and to social justice as a distinct, more essential and broader issue than economic equality makes him ill suited to be President of the United States.
http://www.thepeoplesview.net/main/2016/3/7/flint-debate-bernie-ghettoizes-black-america
cawacko
Well-known member
I believe FDR got a pretty good percentage of the black vote but to your point my understanding is JFK called MLK when he was jail and Nixon wanted to but hesitated and that was a huge turning point.
christiefan915
Catalyst
I looked at the Vermont demographics and 94% of the people are white. Bernie must not have a lot of experience with minorities.
OT, I had not idea the population was so small, less than 1 million.
Can you explain the context? I grew up poor. I know what it's like to have to wear shoes until they have holes in the soles and I know what it's like to have only a couple of pairs of pants for the entire school year. To this day I wear shoes until they fall apart and I can't bring myself to go buy new shoes until they do.
What other context are you talking about? How should a formerly poor white person like myself take such comments? Truly curious about what you can come up with. I can't think of any context in which this is a presidential thing to say about any race.
Cripes, give the guy a break.....we all know what he was trying to say.. and it wasn't racist or sinister at all........he's just not as polished as the lying panderer beside him....
who when she is done with her answer and you parse her words, you find she didn't answer the question at all.....
who when she is done with her answer and you parse her words, you find she didn't answer the question at all.....