Obama's MidEast Legacy

[Rune]

except that wasn't her excuse for using a private server -
she said it was for convenience and then used multiple devices anyhow.
She said it was wrong and apologized - leave it to you to find more reasons to apologize for that worthless wretch of a warmonger.

ROLF..who is "Ben Gazi" -

IF you bothered to read the NYTimes - which is no RW fish wrapping of a paper you would see her role.
If you had looked at the Tic Toc In Libya Email - you would see she led in policy ( bombing Libya),
international accord ( bringing on board) = architect and advocate.. but you are so fucking dense
you can't even see the obvious.
Worse you refuse to educate yourself, instead clinging to partial facts as "truth" Intellectual laziness leads to intellectual rot.
You are fisherman rotting from the head like the fish you catch.

Note: Clinton doesn't deny her Libyan role; instead she defends it as "smart power"
There was nothing smart about creating a failed terrorist state out of a Libya that was in good standing with the world community,
and an allie on war on terror in North Africa and beyond.
Such is the desperation of your lies to defend anything by a Democrat - you defend warmongering failures.
You are a partisan hack of the worst sort.

You are unable to discern "classified data" from "classified documents" -about the only thing you got correct was HRClinton was head of Stae and
had the ability to classify on sight -instead she asked her staff to remove classified markings -playing fast and loose on her
crappy server.
You fail to understand the classified State dept server had EINSTEIN protection and was never hacked -
and how classified info got on her server is what this case is all about.
All she had to do was use the classified system for classified exchanges - the fact she NEVER used a classified Email system shows her
gross negligence
But wait for the FBI - as I've said numerous times -reckless as she was -before passing judgement on her criminality.
Which of course you cannot do -preferring blind defense of a Democrat simply because she is a Democrat.

You are rank partisan steeped in hypocrisy, with an inability to discern detail, wiling to jump the shark to proclaim innocence
yet in denial that Clinton was chief architect and advocate of Libya 2011.
You can't sink any lower then moral bankruptcy added to willful ignorance. You area prime example of how rank partisanship
destroys critical thought -even on the rare occasion you display such.

What was that ad hom?
Shut the fuck up.
I already proved that Hilary was at most a willing pawn.
Damn boy you are one stubborn ignorant spelling nazi douchebag.
Seriously call BAC.
You need a reality check.
By the way, simple minded unimaginative parrot,
Just because she didn't say something doesn't mean it isn't a valid reason. You are so fucking dense.

 

[anatta]

What do you think aircraft carriers are for Dipshit?
Clue; not peace.
Dumbfuck; war isn't even declared anymore.
The entire world is a battlefield according to those who justify deploying drones.

As usual you are war mongering and don't even know it.
China is our only actual threat in the world.
We cannot likely defeat China.
Why would one approve of an agressive act such as sending a Naval fleet there?
You really are dangerously fucked in the head.

^ More gross misunderstanding of real politik and power projection.
You have no clue of Chinese hegemony -did you know they are literally building man-made islands for dredge sluge
and using that "land mass" to further expand their territorial claims? They stick some AA batterys on them
and harass international navigation - there is nothing benign about their grabs for power.

Or how about ADIZ zones? Interfering with commercial flights -and refusing diplomatic talks?

China Says It Could Set Up Air Defense Zone in South China Sea
In November 2013, to the dismay of Japan and the United States, China declared an air defense identification zone over disputed waters in the East China Sea. Chinese military aircraft began requiring all other aircraft flying through the zone to identify themselves, and commercial airliners complied, though the United States sent B-52 bombers through the zone without advance warning to challenge Beijing.

In late May, Chinese officials told the United States to stop sending surveillance flights near land formations that China claims as its territory. American officials say the flights have been over international waters.

Admiral Sun’s remarks came during a question-and-answer session after he delivered the main Chinese speech at the annual Shangri-La Dialogue security conference in Singapore. As at previous such meetings, much of the focus of the conference, which ended on Sunday, was on territorial disputes in the South China Sea, where China, Taiwan and Southeast Asian nations all have competing claims to waters, islands, reefs, shoals and sandbars. In recent weeks, the United States has criticized China for island-building and land reclamation efforts on disputed reefs and atolls that were uninhabited until recently

The United States and countries in the region say China’s actions are taking place at the expense of other nations’ interests and are jeopardizing diplomatic relations. Most notably, in May 2014, China placed an exploratory oil rig near the Vietnamese coast and off the shores of the Paracel Islands....

++
Do you have a clue that China is not going to use diplomacy where it can use power?
And this isn't power projection like the Pacific Fleet the US has operating there to protect air and sea access -it's purely a Chinese power grab-
where they shun diplomacy over territorial conflicts..

None of which has to do with "declared wars" idjit; as usual you are the demonstration that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing

 

[anatta]

What was that ad hom?
Shut the fuck up.
I already proved that Hilary was at most a willing pawn.
Damn boy you are one stubborn ignorant spelling nazi douchebag.
Seriously call BAC.
You need a reality check.
By the way, simple minded unimaginative parrot,
Just because she didn't say something doesn't mean it isn't a valid reason. You are so fucking dense.

You haven't proved anything -you lack the ability to use sources -even where they are shown to you - in favor of clinging to delusions.
you are reduced to frothing..so now you are defending Hillary's motives, where she doesn't claim that as defense..
Congratulations; you have outed yourself as incapable of anything but reflexive lizard brained hackneyed hyper-partisanship.

Oh and leave BAC out of it -he's not here..see if you can compose something coherent. just once.
Stop copying my language, or pulling some phrases out from BAC's fine works.

 

[USFREEDOM911]

what do you think it proves penisrider

That you so fucking insane that you have turned stupidity into a life's goal; you old cock gobbler.

 

[Airstrip One]

Saudi Arabia is our enemy, because Mecca and Medina are within its borders.

 

[Rune]

except that wasn't her excuse for using a private server -
she said it was for convenience and then used multiple devices anyhow.
She said it was wrong and apologized - leave it to you to find more reasons to apologize for that worthless wretch of a warmonger.

ROLF..who is "Ben Gazi" -

IF you bothered to read the NYTimes - which is no RW fish wrapping of a paper you would see her role.
If you had looked at the Tic Toc In Libya Email - you would see she led in policy ( bombing Libya),
international accord ( bringing on board) = architect and advocate.. but you are so fucking dense
you can't even see the obvious.
Worse you refuse to educate yourself, instead clinging to partial facts as "truth" Intellectual laziness leads to intellectual rot.
You are fisherman rotting from the head like the fish you catch.

Note: Clinton doesn't deny her Libyan role; instead she defends it as "smart power"
There was nothing smart about creating a failed terrorist state out of a Libya that was in good standing with the world community,
and an allie on war on terror in North Africa and beyond.
Such is the desperation of your lies to defend anything by a Democrat - you defend warmongering failures.
You are a partisan hack of the worst sort.

You are unable to discern "classified data" from "classified documents" -about the only thing you got correct was HRClinton was head of Stae and
had the ability to classify on sight -instead she asked her staff to remove classified markings -playing fast and loose on her
crappy server.
You fail to understand the classified State dept server had EINSTEIN protection and was never hacked -
and how classified info got on her server is what this case is all about.
All she had to do was use the classified system for classified exchanges - the fact she NEVER used a classified Email system shows her
gross negligence
But wait for the FBI - as I've said numerous times -reckless as she was -before passing judgement on her criminality.
Which of course you cannot do -preferring blind defense of a Democrat simply because she is a Democrat.

You are rank partisan steeped in hypocrisy, with an inability to discern detail, wiling to jump the shark to proclaim innocence
yet in denial that Clinton was chief architect and advocate of Libya 2011.
You can't sink any lower then moral bankruptcy added to willful ignorance. You area prime example of how rank partisanship
destroys critical thought -even on the rare occasion you display such.

You haven't proved anything -you lack the ability to use sources -even where they are shown to you - in favor of clinging to delusions.
you are reduced to frothing..so now you are defending Hillary's motives, where she doesn't claim that as defense..
Congratulations; you have outed yourself as incapable of anything but reflexive lizard brained hackneyed hyper-partisanship.

Oh and leave BAC out of it -he's not here..see if you can compose something coherent. just once.
Stop copying my language, or pulling some phrases out from BAC's fine works.

Listen you egomaniacal pissant;
Don't tell me what to do.
I will mention BAC every other sentence if I want AND loser,
LMFAO
I would never copy you.
Your delusions are severe.

 

[evince]

You haven't proved anything -you lack the ability to use sources -even where they are shown to you - in favor of clinging to delusions.
you are reduced to frothing..so now you are defending Hillary's motives, where she doesn't claim that as defense..
Congratulations; you have outed yourself as incapable of anything but reflexive lizard brained hackneyed hyper-partisanship.

Oh and leave BAC out of it -he's not here..see if you can compose something coherent. just once.
Stop copying my language, or pulling some phrases out from BAC's fine works.

You haven't proved anything

 

[Rune]

^ More gross misunderstanding of real politik and power projection.
You have no clue of Chinese hegemony -did you know they are literally building man-made islands for dredge sluge
and using that "land mass" to further expand their territorial claims? They stick some AA batterys on them
and harass international navigation - there is nothing benign about their grabs for power.

Or how about ADIZ zones? Interfering with commercial flights -and refusing diplomatic talks?

China Says It Could Set Up Air Defense Zone in South China Sea
In November 2013, to the dismay of Japan and the United States, China declared an air defense identification zone over disputed waters in the East China Sea. Chinese military aircraft began requiring all other aircraft flying through the zone to identify themselves, and commercial airliners complied, though the United States sent B-52 bombers through the zone without advance warning to challenge Beijing.

In late May, Chinese officials told the United States to stop sending surveillance flights near land formations that China claims as its territory. American officials say the flights have been over international waters.

Admiral Sun’s remarks came during a question-and-answer session after he delivered the main Chinese speech at the annual Shangri-La Dialogue security conference in Singapore. As at previous such meetings, much of the focus of the conference, which ended on Sunday, was on territorial disputes in the South China Sea, where China, Taiwan and Southeast Asian nations all have competing claims to waters, islands, reefs, shoals and sandbars. In recent weeks, the United States has criticized China for island-building and land reclamation efforts on disputed reefs and atolls that were uninhabited until recently

The United States and countries in the region say China’s actions are taking place at the expense of other nations’ interests and are jeopardizing diplomatic relations. Most notably, in May 2014, China placed an exploratory oil rig near the Vietnamese coast and off the shores of the Paracel Islands....

++
Do you have a clue that China is not going to use diplomacy where it can use power?
And this isn't power projection like the Pacific Fleet the US has operating there to protect air and sea access -it's purely a Chinese power grab-
where they shun diplomacy over territorial conflicts..

None of which has to do with "declared wars" idjit; as usual you are the demonstration that a little knowledge is a dangerous thing

YOU GIBBERING KNAVE;
I am well aware of Chinese hegemony.
The sand dots are a test you foolish war monger.
That's all they are.
The sky is falling
The sky is falling.
Fear filled ignorant insignificunt.
Take your putrid fear elsewhere.

Did you know Russia is claiming the North Pole?
Why aren't you peeing your panties over that?
That is an actual threat to us.
Rancid faggot.
Go suck Jebs scrotum.

 

[Irish]

I agree with much of the OP, but I don't see how Iranian elections matter much. The power still lies with their Supreme Alatolahas. IE their Islamic dictator.

The ME must abandon old Islamic doctrine if they ever want to succeed in this world. Something no lib will ever admit.

And stepping back in the ME has been a disaster. How do we still have a diplomatic role if we've been immobilized?

 

[Irish]

you are nothing but lies and fucking hate

This is why you need to ban desh from your threads. Now you have learned.

 

[evince]

I agree with much of the OP, but I don't see how Iranian elections matter much. The power still lies with their Supreme Alatolahas. IE their Islamic dictator.

The ME must abandon old Islamic doctrine if they ever want to succeed in this world. Something no lib will ever admit.

And stepping back in the ME has been a disaster. How do we still have a diplomatic role if we've been immobilized?

go hide where no one can answer you.



your assholes let us be hit on 911

 

[evince]

This is why you need to ban desh from your threads. Now you have learned.

you ban because you cant debate you brain dead lie bag

 

[evince]

you assholes lied to take the shit cork out the bottle



you broke it by lying to the American people


then you crashed the world economy

groan away you traitor irish

 

[anatta]

Listen you egomaniacal pissant;
Don't tell me what to do.
I will mention BAC every other sentence if I want AND loser,
LMFAO
I would never copy you.
Your delusions are severe.

^persistent vegetative state

 

[anatta]

YOU GIBBERING KNAVE;
I am well aware of Chinese hegemony.
The sand dots are a test you foolish war monger.
That's all they are.
The sky is falling
The sky is falling.
Fear filled ignorant insignificunt.
Take your putrid fear elsewhere.

Did you know Russia is claiming the North Pole?
Why aren't you peeing your panties over that?
That is an actual threat to us.
Rancid faggot.
Go suck Jebs scrotum.

claiming and occupying territory are 2 different things.
Russia's claim is symbolic; they dropped a titanium tube containing the Russian flag on the sea floor.
In no way does any claim bolster their oil output -they need western technology to do that.
No it's not a "threat" at all

The sand dots are a test you foolish war monger.

ROFL @ "sand dots"

Once again ..you excel in a persistent nothingness ; unable to discern symbolic vs. occupational territorial expansion.

 

[anatta]

I agree with much of the OP, but I don't see how Iranian elections matter much. The power still lies with their Supreme Alatolahas. IE their Islamic dictator.

The ME must abandon old Islamic doctrine if they ever want to succeed in this world. Something no lib will ever admit.

And stepping back in the ME has been a disaster. How do we still have a diplomatic role if we've been immobilized?

They aren't needed to abandon Sharia ( in my opinion -and they won't) ;but they do need some successful states.
That was the lesson of the Arab Spring, hopelessness breeds massive discontent.

Egypt's middle class is doing better under el-Sisi -why they tolerate what is close to martial law.
I agree on Iran; the Guardian Council still holds all the cards

 

[moon]

I agree with much of the OP, but I don't see how Iranian elections matter much. The power still lies with their Supreme Alatolahas. IE their Islamic dictator.

USA elections concentrate power in the hands of establishment figures and billionaires. You should do something about America's broken democracy.

The ME must abandon old Islamic doctrine if they ever want to succeed in this world. Something no lib will ever admit.

Their idea of success is not the same as yours- and the West's efforts to lockstep their culture with its own has led to chaos. The old expression rings ever truer- ' Yanqui, go home '.

And stepping back in the ME has been a disaster. How do we still have a diplomatic role if we've been immobilized?

The US is almost 20 trillion dollars in debt and tries to maintain over a thousand military bases worldwide. Meanwhile a large percentage of its population lives below the poverty line. Forget the Middle East, forget working for Israel. Take care of Americans.

 

[anatta]

^ I agree Israel gets way too much money. US arms sales like the Russian/Chinese/anyone are cash and carry.

US navy is one aspect of being a superpower; in short Hillary had the terminology correct = "smartpower"
even if she abused it, and misused the term.
Her's was simple interventionism on the cheap - US wars of nationbuilding/etc. have got to stop.
That included Afghanistan.

But counter-terrorism ops ( drones in Yemen/Afpak) that are not "shots in the dark ( signature strikes) are legitimate ops.
It would be best to put all that under US military, and not the CIA fro accountability and transparency

But there are plenty of reasons to stay engaged without warring. Again Russia does the same practices

 

[Rune]

^ I agree Israel gets way too much money. US arms sales like the Russian/Chinese/anyone are cash and carry.

US navy is one aspect of being a superpower; in short Hillary had the terminology correct = "smartpower"
even if she abused it, and misused the term.
Her's was simple interventionism on the cheap - US wars of nationbuilding/etc. have got to stop.
That included Afghanistan.

But counter-terrorism ops ( drones in Yemen/Afpak) that are not "shots in the dark ( signature strikes) are legitimate ops.
It would be best to put all that under US military, and not the CIA fro accountability and transparency

But there are plenty of reasons to stay engaged without warring. Again Russia does the same practices

Again what Russia does ha as NOTHING to do with what.the US should do.

Further and far more important,
Drone stikes are NOT legitimate ops.
Cite what makes them legitimate.
Be extremely specific.
The truth is it is illegal for the US to assasinate anyone.
Always has been.
Cite the specific change in the law which allows us to murder without due process, without congressional declaration of war.

Don't bother running that tired bullshit about the entire world being a battlefield. That is not true.

Everyone murdered by drones has a legitimate claim against the US.
The Constitution provides protection against deprivation of life without due process.
Even trial in abstentia us prohibited because one has a right to confront one's acuser.
I highly suggest a review of the basics of civics before you spout anymore garbage in public.

 

[anatta]

Again what Russia does ha as NOTHING to do with what.the US should do.

Further and far more important,
Drone stikes are NOT legitimate ops.
Cite what makes them legitimate.
Be extremely specific.
The truth is it is illegal for the US to assasinate anyone.
Always has been.
Cite the specific change in the law which allows us to murder without due process, without congressional declaration of war.

Don't bother running that tired bullshit about the entire world being a battlefield. That is not true.

Everyone murdered by drones has a legitimate claim against the US.
The Constitution provides protection against deprivation of life without due process.
Even trial in abstentia us prohibited because one has a right to confront one's acuser.
I highly suggest a review of the basics of civics before you spout anymore garbage in public.

AUMF = global war on terror.so called "belligerents"
here is a good redact:
++

Holder observed, "We are at war with a stateless enemy, prone to shifting operations from country to country." Thus, the United States may strike at al-Qaida wherever it may be – even within the borders of another sovereign state. When possible, the United States seeks permission to launch drone strikes on foreign soil. Yet, Holder said, if a "nation is unable or unwilling to deal effectively with a threat to the United States," then an attack may proceed.

Of course, the right to strike does not entail the right to ignore the impact of such attacks on civilians. Harold Koh, who spent about three and a half years as the State Department's legal adviser, explained that the U.S. observes the principles of distinction and proportionality. Distinction "requires that attacks be limited to military objectives," not civilian ones. Proportionality prohibits attacks even on military targets if the impact on civilians would be "excessive in relation to the concrete and direct military advantage anticipated."

These are precisely the principles that al-Qaida and the Islamic State group deliberately violate in their efforts to sow terror through the maximal slaughter of civilians.

Two years ago, Obama made a pledge regarding drone strikes that, "Before any strike is taken, there must be near-certainty that no civilians will be killed or injured – the highest standard we can set." Obama noted the extensive criticism of civilian casualties and admitted, "it is a hard fact that U.S. strikes have resulted in civilian casualties, a risk that exists in every war." Yet he asserted, "There's a wide gap between U.S. [government] assessments of such casualties and nongovernmental reports." The government does not release any of its statistics or evidence, however, thus conceding the high ground in public debates.

A Justified Tactic, Not a Viable Strategy
http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs...e-legally-justified-in-fight-against-al-Qaida
++

my opinion on all this: we definitely are at war with "stateless actors".
Signature strikes ( where the identity of the combatant) is in doubt needs to stop. More then anything they create civilian deaths.
One big side effect about closing Gitmo - is there isn't a place for detainees anymore.

I never would have closed Gitmo -not without a replacement -doing so means we just drone them without even attempts at capture