Should we dump Obamacare and go for Medicare-for-all instead, like Canada?

[Truth Detector]

Profit is what drives a capitalist market, not social health care in Canada. All doctors had to take a pay cut. Sure we lost many of our doctors to the USA with their play money currency, though overall? Our system is more humane.

What is "more humane" about making a hip replacement patient suffer for more than a year for her operation?

What is "more humane" about making ANYONE have to wait to see a doctor for ANYTHING?

They really have you Kanukistanians brain washed up there don’t they Comrade?

You can sleep at night knowing that if you ever got a sickness, or wanted to start a family, the gov(more like the tax payer) would have your back.

LMAO; yeah, I always sleep better wondering if the critical operation I need will occur before I die or become crippled.

The brain washing is complete; the Government nanny state allows dunces to sleep better at night. LMAO

 

[wiseones2cents]

What is "more humane" about making a hip replacement patient suffer for more than a year for her operation?

What is "more humane" about making ANYONE have to wait to see a doctor for ANYTHING?

They really have you Kanukistanians brain washed up there don’t they Comrade?

That's American capitalism propaganda. lol Serious conditions are bumped to the front of the line! A year? More like a day or two maximum.

I remember a guy was complaining about having to wait 5 hours at an Emergency center. Then an American chimed in and he said he also waited 5 hours in the US, and on top got billed for it anyways! I'd easily wait 5 hours and get it free, then wait 2 hours and have to dish out a weeks pay....

LMAO; yeah, I always sleep better wondering if the critical operation I need will occur before I die or become crippled.

The brain washing is complete; the Government nanny state allows dunces to sleep better at night. LMAO

Nope. You swallowed to much capitalist support American healthcare propaganda/mis-information lies.

Just like Americans were coming over the border to by cheap prescription drugs and the American government warned that they were not FDA approved and dangerous! LOL

 

[Truth Detector]

That's American capitalism propaganda. lol Serious conditions are bumped to the front of the line! A year? More like a day or two maximum.

That is a lie; I can cite actual cases, one of which was a woman I have known since high school. Please stop your incessant lying.
Keyword; bumped to the front of the line. Should there even be a line?

How Long Do Canadians Wait for Healthcare?

According to a new study by Canada's Fraser Institute, surgical waitlists are costing the nation about $1 billion each year in lost productivity. The average Canadian can now expect to wait 9.5 weeks for treatment with a medical specialist, this number up from 9.3 weeks last year.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/06/20/canadian-healthcare.html


Surgical wait times not improving
Demand for hip and knee replacements rising faster than ability to keep up

Wait times for priority medical treatments like hip and knee replacements are not going down despite concerted efforts in all provinces to improve the situation, a new report shows.

..... the proportion of procedures that were carried out within the recommended time — 182 days — went down four percentage points from 84 per cent to 80 per cent for hips and from 79 per cent to 75 per cent for knees.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/surgical-wait-times-not-improving-1.1404061

I remember a guy was complaining about having to wait 5 hours at an Emergency center. Then an American chimed in and he said he also waited 5 hours in the US, and on top got billed for it anyways! I'd easily wait 5 hours and get it free, then wait 2 hours and have to dish out a weeks pay....

Your anecdotal bullshit is about a credible as the lies you constantly erupt with on this forum Comrade. No one buys your bullshit except for gullible dimwits.

Nope. You swallowed to much capitalist support American healthcare propaganda/mis-information lies.

As opposed to your Marxist dogma Comrade? The only one wallowing in lies and denial here are liars like you who support massive Government programs with a history of malaise and failure for no better reason than it makes you feel warm and fuzzy inside pretending that you care more than anyone else on the planet.

Just like Americans were coming over the border to by cheap prescription drugs and the American government warned that they were not FDA approved and dangerous! LOL

Citation please; this is more anecdotal bullshit based on isolated incidents.

The reason drugs can be obtained cheaper is because they are subsidized by Americans who pay the higher costs due to no price restrictions and research and development charges added to new drugs to pay for the R&D.

If we did the same thing in America, the R&D for drugs would all but disappear and no new drugs would be developed causing more pain and suffering.

Multiple Reasons for Cost Differences
The reason that prescription medications are cheaper in Canada is complex and there are several factors that contribute to the lower costs.
The Canadian government puts a cap, or ceiling, on the amount that drug companies can charge pharmacies and other distributors of drugs. This reduces the wholesale cost of medication for most organizations throughout Canada by about five percent. The prices are determined by Canada’s Patented Medicine Prices Review Board. Since drugstores pay less for many medications, they can sell them for less.
Each of the Canadian provinces, like Quebec and Ontario, has a drug formulary that puts restrictions on the use of new and expensive medications. Since the provinces provide the bulk of drugs to higher users of medication, (seniors), they have the power to negotiate directly with pharmaceutical companies to lower prices for a medication to get on the formulary. In Ontario, for example, the formulary includes less than 35 percent of new medications.
Canadian pharmaceutical companies have lower liability costs than U.S. drug companies. Canadians are not only less likely than Americans to sue healthcare providers or drug companies but when they do sue, awards and damages are a lot lower than in the U.S. In the U.S., some economists consider the cost of liability insurance for a drug company to be similar to a “tax” on medications.
Standard of Living May Be the Key Factor
The most important factor, however, may be the difference in the standard of living between the two countries. The average Canadian's standard of living is 20 percent to 30 percent lower than the average American's standard of living. This difference affects the price that a drug company sets for a brand name drug.
In the U.S, for example, a can of Miller’s beer may be less expensive in rural New Mexico than it is in Beverly Hills. Similarly, that is why some brand name drugs like Lipitor and Diovan are cheaper in Canada –- many Canadians cannot afford to pay as much as their American counterparts and the drug companies sell these medications for less.
http://drugs.about.com/od/faqsaboutyourdrugs/f/Canada_cheap.htm

 

[USFREEDOM911]

That is a lie; I can cite actual cases, one of which was a woman I have known since high school. Please stop your incessant lying.
Keyword; bumped to the front of the line. Should there even be a line?

How Long Do Canadians Wait for Healthcare?

According to a new study by Canada's Fraser Institute, surgical waitlists are costing the nation about $1 billion each year in lost productivity. The average Canadian can now expect to wait 9.5 weeks for treatment with a medical specialist, this number up from 9.3 weeks last year.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/06/20/canadian-healthcare.html


Surgical wait times not improving
Demand for hip and knee replacements rising faster than ability to keep up

Wait times for priority medical treatments like hip and knee replacements are not going down despite concerted efforts in all provinces to improve the situation, a new report shows.

..... the proportion of procedures that were carried out within the recommended time — 182 days — went down four percentage points from 84 per cent to 80 per cent for hips and from 79 per cent to 75 per cent for knees.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/surgical-wait-times-not-improving-1.1404061



Your anecdotal bullshit is about a credible as the lies you constantly erupt with on this forum Comrade. No one buys your bullshit except for gullible dimwits.



As opposed to your Marxist dogma Comrade? The only one wallowing in lies and denial here are liars like you who support massive Government programs with a history of malaise and failure for no better reason than it makes you feel warm and fuzzy inside pretending that you care more than anyone else on the planet.



Citation please; this is more anecdotal bullshit based on isolated incidents.

The reason drugs can be obtained cheaper is because they are subsidized by Americans who pay the higher costs due to no price restrictions and research and development charges added to new drugs to pay for the R&D.

If we did the same thing in America, the R&D for drugs would all but disappear and no new drugs would be developed causing more pain and suffering.

Multiple Reasons for Cost Differences
The reason that prescription medications are cheaper in Canada is complex and there are several factors that contribute to the lower costs.
The Canadian government puts a cap, or ceiling, on the amount that drug companies can charge pharmacies and other distributors of drugs. This reduces the wholesale cost of medication for most organizations throughout Canada by about five percent. The prices are determined by Canada’s Patented Medicine Prices Review Board. Since drugstores pay less for many medications, they can sell them for less.
Each of the Canadian provinces, like Quebec and Ontario, has a drug formulary that puts restrictions on the use of new and expensive medications. Since the provinces provide the bulk of drugs to higher users of medication, (seniors), they have the power to negotiate directly with pharmaceutical companies to lower prices for a medication to get on the formulary. In Ontario, for example, the formulary includes less than 35 percent of new medications.
Canadian pharmaceutical companies have lower liability costs than U.S. drug companies. Canadians are not only less likely than Americans to sue healthcare providers or drug companies but when they do sue, awards and damages are a lot lower than in the U.S. In the U.S., some economists consider the cost of liability insurance for a drug company to be similar to a “tax” on medications.
Standard of Living May Be the Key Factor
The most important factor, however, may be the difference in the standard of living between the two countries. The average Canadian's standard of living is 20 percent to 30 percent lower than the average American's standard of living. This difference affects the price that a drug company sets for a brand name drug.
In the U.S, for example, a can of Miller’s beer may be less expensive in rural New Mexico than it is in Beverly Hills. Similarly, that is why some brand name drugs like Lipitor and Diovan are cheaper in Canada –- many Canadians cannot afford to pay as much as their American counterparts and the drug companies sell these medications for less.
http://drugs.about.com/od/faqsaboutyourdrugs/f/Canada_cheap.htm

Since the Kanadian isn't here, allow me to channel his response:

LIES - THOSE ARE ALL LIES PROPOGATED BY LYING AMERICAN CONSERVATIVES.
NOW GO FUCK YOURSELF

 

[Taichiliberal]

As everyone knows Obama-care has had a pretty wild roller coaster ride of an existence and who knows where it will go. The question is however, is it even worth pursuing or should we do what our Canadian neighbors have been doing for years?

political.com asked the same question to their viewers and there were some interesting comments definitely worth taking a look at.

Let me know what you think.

Well, our political folk and their financial puppet masters told us that universal healthcare was absurd, and single payer was out of the question. So the insurance industry grudgingly approved of the current ACA (based on a Heritage Foundation format that worked fairly well in Mitt Romney land).

Mentioning Canada to the folk that have been wailing like banshees against "Obamacare" is a waste of time and effort. They don't know, they don't want to know, and will run to the same old conservative websites for a myopic or distorted or dishonest view of Canadian healthcare (which isn't perfect, but then again what is?).....but don't ask them if things were all hunky dory prior to the ACA!

 

[Truth Detector]

Well, our political folk and their financial puppet masters told us that universal healthcare was absurd, and single payer was out of the question. So the insurance industry grudgingly approved of the current ACA (based on a Heritage Foundation format that worked fairly well in Mitt Romney land).

Mentioning Canada to the folk that have been wailing like banshees against "Obamacare" is a waste of time and effort. They don't know, they don't want to know, and will run to the same old conservative websites for a myopic or distorted or dishonest view of Canadian healthcare (which isn't perfect, but then again what is?).....but don't ask them if things were all hunky dory prior to the ACA!

ACA is working about as expected; terribly. So bad that they keep extending deadlines for purely partisan political purposes.

 

[Teflon Don]

He'll even Obama is dumping Obamacare

 

[Don Quixote]

He'll even Obama is dumping Obamacare

considering the hoops that obama had to jump through to get the aca passed in the first place, medicare for all would have been the best solution, but all of those that voted for the aca had to pee on it so they liked the flavor better...

it is a major wonder that it was passed anyway. something that complex needs revising and deadline extensions because someone did not think of every minor problem.

still it is better than the nothing that the repugs wanted

give it a couple of years to get the bugs out of it before you start crying about all of the minor problems.

 

[Teflon Don]

considering the hoops that obama had to jump through to get the aca passed in the first place, medicare for all would have been the best solution, but all of those that voted for the aca had to pee on it so they liked the flavor better...

it is a major wonder that it was passed anyway. something that complex needs revising and deadline extensions because someone did not think of every minor problem.

still it is better than the nothing that the repugs wanted

give it a couple of years to get the bugs out of it before you start crying about all of the minor problems.

What a joke you are. What qualifies Obama to alter anything in our healthcare system?

Medicare is going bankrupt and you want to expand it.

You deserve what you are going to get. Well maybe you won't. You will probably die before it gets that bad. Your family deserves it no hope they suffer with debilitating diseases sitting around waiting on gobblement wait lists and being told NOPE

 

[Don Quixote]

What a joke you are. What qualifies Obama to alter anything in our healthcare system?

Medicare is going bankrupt and you want to expand it.

You deserve what you are going to get. Well maybe you won't. You will probably die before it gets that bad. Your family deserves it no hope they suffer with debilitating diseases sitting around waiting on gobblement wait lists and being told NOPE

medicare will not go broke because even the repugs know that if they let it go bust too many members of their base use medicare or are in line to use it.

you have failed to consider how many voters are on or will soon be on social security and medicare and messing with it will produce a storm of anger among those voters.

 

[Teflon Don]

medicare will not go broke because even the repugs know that if they let it go bust too many members of their base use medicare or are in line to use it.

you have failed to consider how many voters are on or will soon be on social security and medicare and messing with it will produce a storm of anger among those voters.

And the money to pay for it will come from where?

Do you know you could confiscate the entire wealth of the top 10% of this country and it would only fund the gubmint for 1 year? Then what? You can't confiscate their wealth again.

Where do you think the money is going to come from? Come on man. Think

 

[Don Quixote]

And the money to pay for it will come from where?

Do you know you could confiscate the entire wealth of the top 10% of this country and it would only fund the gubmint for 1 year? Then what? You can't confiscate their wealth again.

Where do you think the money is going to come from? Come on man. Think

taxes...tanstafl

how about more cuts to our overblown military

how much do we still owe for the off the books budget items to pay for the wars in iraq and afghanistan

what would your tax liability be if we had not fought those two useless wars?

 

[Teflon Don]

taxes...tanstafl

how about more cuts to our overblown military

how much do we still owe for the off the books budget items to pay for the wars in iraq and afghanistan

what would your tax liability be if we had not fought those two useless wars?

Raise taxes on who?

You could eliminate the military and there still wouldn't be enough money. The numbers are not your friend here.

You are not arguing from a place of reality

You can what if all you want about Iraq but you can't unring that bell

 

[Don Quixote]

taxes...tanstafl

how about more cuts to our overblown military

how much do we still owe for the off the books budget items to pay for the wars in iraq and afghanistan

what would your tax liability be if we had not fought those two useless wars?

of course there is always the u s of a credit card...right now we owe over a trillion in unpaid debt for the two wars

 

[wiseones2cents]

That is a lie; I can cite actual cases, one of which was a woman I have known since high school. Please stop your incessant lying.
Keyword; bumped to the front of the line. Should there even be a line?

How Long Do Canadians Wait for Healthcare?

According to a new study by Canada's Fraser Institute, surgical waitlists are costing the nation about $1 billion each year in lost productivity. The average Canadian can now expect to wait 9.5 weeks for treatment with a medical specialist, this number up from 9.3 weeks last year.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/06/20/canadian-healthcare.html


Surgical wait times not improving
Demand for hip and knee replacements rising faster than ability to keep up

Wait times for priority medical treatments like hip and knee replacements are not going down despite concerted efforts in all provinces to improve the situation, a new report shows.

..... the proportion of procedures that were carried out within the recommended time — 182 days — went down four percentage points from 84 per cent to 80 per cent for hips and from 79 per cent to 75 per cent for knees.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/surgical-wait-times-not-improving-1.1404061

BULLSHIT!! Those are only for non-urgent cases. Most of the severe cases are taken care of swiftly! I live here I should know!

Your anecdotal bullshit is about a credible as the lies you constantly erupt with on this forum Comrade. No one buys your bullshit except for gullible dimwits.

Are you saying Americans don't have long waits at the Emergency Center? ROTFLOL!! Prove it!

As opposed to your Marxist dogma Comrade? The only one wallowing in lies and denial here are liars like you who support massive Government programs with a history of malaise and failure for no better reason than it makes you feel warm and fuzzy inside pretending that you care more than anyone else on the planet.

Our health care and many others are rated higher then your health care service by almost every if not every agency. America was voted the most expensive as compared to other rates of the same procedures around the world! The only thing I can say about about our health care is that America lures doctors away with their monopoly money economy.

They(Britain did the same) give out that worthless paper money to all the nations putting them in perpetual debt. Beware Ukraine! You may reap some benefits at the beginning, but eventually you will have to pay the piper!

Citation please; this is more anecdotal bullshit based on isolated incidents.

http://www.fda.gov/NewsEvents/Newsroom/PressAnnouncements/2006/ucm108722.htm

WOW! I wonder why they didn't close them down!

http://www.canada-pharmacy.com/

Heck most FDA approved drugs come with a plethora of side effects anyways! They pick and chose which ones they approve and which they don't. It's all about the Benjamins!

The reason drugs can be obtained cheaper is because they are subsidized by Americans who pay the higher costs due to no price restrictions and research and development charges added to new drugs to pay for the R&D.

If we did the same thing in America, the R&D for drugs would all but disappear and no new drugs would be developed causing more pain and suffering.

Multiple Reasons for Cost Differences
The reason that prescription medications are cheaper in Canada is complex and there are several factors that contribute to the lower costs.
The Canadian government puts a cap, or ceiling, on the amount that drug companies can charge pharmacies and other distributors of drugs. This reduces the wholesale cost of medication for most organizations throughout Canada by about five percent. The prices are determined by Canada’s Patented Medicine Prices Review Board. Since drugstores pay less for many medications, they can sell them for less.
Each of the Canadian provinces, like Quebec and Ontario, has a drug formulary that puts restrictions on the use of new and expensive medications. Since the provinces provide the bulk of drugs to higher users of medication, (seniors), they have the power to negotiate directly with pharmaceutical companies to lower prices for a medication to get on the formulary. In Ontario, for example, the formulary includes less than 35 percent of new medications.
Canadian pharmaceutical companies have lower liability costs than U.S. drug companies. Canadians are not only less likely than Americans to sue healthcare providers or drug companies but when they do sue, awards and damages are a lot lower than in the U.S. In the U.S., some economists consider the cost of liability insurance for a drug company to be similar to a “tax” on medications.
Standard of Living May Be the Key Factor
The most important factor, however, may be the difference in the standard of living between the two countries. The average Canadian's standard of living is 20 percent to 30 percent lower than the average American's standard of living. This difference affects the price that a drug company sets for a brand name drug.
In the U.S, for example, a can of Miller’s beer may be less expensive in rural New Mexico than it is in Beverly Hills. Similarly, that is why some brand name drugs like Lipitor and Diovan are cheaper in Canada –- many Canadians cannot afford to pay as much as their American counterparts and the drug companies sell these medications for less.
http://drugs.about.com/od/faqsaboutyourdrugs/f/Canada_cheap.htm

I read this before and it is all American mis-information!


Americans have more middle men/pigs at the pig trough eating at the pharmaceuticals then Canada does. That's why Americans pay more.

Oh and our health care doesn't keep children hostage at a hospital like the case on this board!And no John Q shit happenin here! Fuck the inhumane American health care system that cares about profit over ethics!

 

[Taichiliberal]

Quote Originally Posted by Taichiliberal View Post
Well, our political folk and their financial puppet masters told us that universal healthcare was absurd, and single payer was out of the question. So the insurance industry grudgingly approved of the current ACA (based on a Heritage Foundation format that worked fairly well in Mitt Romney land).

Mentioning Canada to the folk that have been wailing like banshees against "Obamacare" is a waste of time and effort. They don't know, they don't want to know, and will run to the same old conservative websites for a myopic or distorted or dishonest view of Canadian healthcare (which isn't perfect, but then again what is?).....but don't ask them if things were all hunky dory prior to the ACA!

ACA is working about as expected; terribly. So bad that they keep extending deadlines for purely partisan political purposes.

And yet willfully ignorant patsies like you just won't touch the FACT that you have many REPUBLICAN GOVERNORS REFUSE to comply with the on-line program...and even run interference against the people who can come to the state and manually guide folks through the sign up process.

Then, the neocon/teabagger sheep bleat with glee that the sign up goals won't be met, etc., etc.

Like I said, bunky...why don't you enlighten us all as to how great it was prior to this change? Talk to Wendell Potter and Dr. Peelu, if you've got the guts.

 

[Taichiliberal]

Quote Originally Posted by Teflon Don View Post
And the money to pay for it will come from where?

Do you know you could confiscate the entire wealth of the top 10% of this country and it would only fund the gubmint for 1 year? Then what? You can't confiscate their wealth again.

Where do you think the money is going to come from? Come on man. Think

taxes...tanstafl

how about more cuts to our overblown military

how much do we still owe for the off the books budget items to pay for the wars in iraq and afghanistan

what would your tax liability be if we had not fought those two useless wars?

Hell, the GOP fought tooth and nail against stopping tax breaks for corps who OUTSOURCE jobs! And idiots like TD just keep lapping up Limbaugh swill and spewing it out ad nauseum. Sad.

 

[Truth Detector]

Well, our political folk and their financial puppet masters told us that universal healthcare was absurd, and single payer was out of the question. So the insurance industry grudgingly approved of the current ACA (based on a Heritage Foundation format that worked fairly well in Mitt Romney land).

LMAO; you really are a conspiratorial lie factory aren’t you?

Mentioning Canada to the folk that have been wailing like banshees against "Obamacare" is a waste of time and effort. They don't know, they don't want to know, and will run to the same old conservative websites for a myopic or distorted or dishonest view of Canadian healthcare (which isn't perfect, but then again what is?).....but don't ask them if things were all hunky dory prior to the ACA!

Dear leftist; we don’t need to know what a disaster Universal Healthcare is, we just have to look across our borders and the Atlantic to see what a mess it is.

But alas, one must first open one’s eyes and “see” the truth. Something you are obviously incapable of doing.

Does it EVER occur to you why Obama has single handedly re-written this law a dozen times since its implementation; some of it for purely partisan political purposes? Or do you just run around like a good little brain washed leftist and parrot the Administrations talking points.

Here’s a little tidbit you won’t believe but I will post it anyway; if I thought that Government managed healthcare would lead to better and cheaper care, I would be all over it like a fly on shit. But it doesn’t. The facts are there; you just have to want to shed your Liberal blinders long enough to see them.

Now, if you like paying MUCH more and having LESS doctors and LONG waiting times; then by all means, this is YOUR program.

 

[Truth Detector]

Hell, the GOP fought tooth and nail against stopping tax breaks for corps who OUTSOURCE jobs! And idiots like TD just keep lapping up Limbaugh swill and spewing it out ad nauseum. Sad.

You are a funny leftist lie factory.

 

[Teflon Don]

BULLSHIT!! Those are only for non-urgent cases. Most of the severe cases are taken care of swiftly! I live here I should know!





Are you saying Americans don't have long waits at the Emergency Center? ROTFLOL!! Prove it!





Our health care and many others are rated higher then your health care service by almost every if not every agency. America was voted the most expensive as compared to other rates of the same procedures around the world! The only thing I can say about about our health care is that America lures doctors away with their monopoly money economy.

They(Britain did the same) give out that worthless paper money to all the nations putting them in perpetual debt. Beware Ukraine! You may reap some benefits at the beginning, but eventually you will have to pay the piper!





http://www.fda.gov/NewsEvents/Newsroom/PressAnnouncements/2006/ucm108722.htm

WOW! I wonder why they didn't close them down!

http://www.canada-pharmacy.com/

Heck most FDA approved drugs come with a plethora of side effects anyways! They pick and chose which ones they approve and which they don't. It's all about the Benjamins!




I read this before and it is all American mis-information!


Americans have more middle men/pigs at the pig trough eating at the pharmaceuticals then Canada does. That's why Americans pay more.

Oh and our health care doesn't keep children hostage at a hospital like the case on this board!And no John Q shit happenin here! Fuck the inhumane American health care system that cares about profit over ethics!

Why are your cancer survival rates lower?

That is a true comparison of healthcare delivery. Not mortality rates.