cawacko
Well-known member
Why is Obama pushing for charter schools?
Democrats against education...
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Why is Obama pushing for charter schools?
Taichiliberal
Shaken, not stirred!
Why are you avoiding my point?
cawacko
Well-known member
I'm not. Now I know President Obama doesn't speak for all Democrats but he is the current leader of the party and a supporter of charter schools. You last sentence basically said Democrats are against charter schools.
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The Almighty
Rahm Emanuel, Cuomo, Obama... Mayor of Chicago, Governor of New York, President of the United States... supporting charter schools.
Taft2016
Verified User
Ever spend any time in an inner city school?
Ever spend any time in an inner city charter school?
maineman
Banned
and they certainly speak for the entire democratic party... that's for sure. When we registered as democrats, we all agreed to just roll over and let the mayor of one city, the governor of one state and the president tell us what to think. I wasn't aware that was common knowledge.[/sarcasm off]
cawacko
Well-known member
Did he say they speak for all Democrats? If the Democratic position is as Taichi claims they are certainly high profile dissenters. And how do we have charter schools in Demicratic dominated cities such as Oakland and San Francisco? There are no republicans making policy in these cities. And in California almost no Republicans.
Taichiliberal
Shaken, not stirred!
Wrong, my last sentence stated that Democrats (at least in NYC, anyway) were against creating a two tier educational system using public property and taxes.....they are not against education. Again, in New York City (and it's suburbs) our local television has been bombarded with a series of commercials hailing charter schools and condemning Mayor De Blasio.
The cost of these commercials? $3.6 million dollars in less than 1 month!
Hell, you could BUILD a school and fully equip it for that amount of money! The funding comes from an unnamed group of pro-charter school "financiers".
Funny how in all the years of complaints of NYC schools being in disrepair, understaffed and under-equipped, you didn't get a penny out of these "financiers".
The retort is that "teacher unions do the same" has YET to be proven. I'm not saying that teacher unions don't run commercials or put money into politicians or advocates for their cause, but if anyone can show me where they did to the tune of $3.6 million in less than 1 month, then I'll be surprised.
So, do you agree or disagree with this?
Mind you, Obama, a right-of-center Democrat believes charters are a solution to a willful deadlock by the very people I'm pointing to above (who were aided and abetted by local corrupt politicians, white flight in the 1960's, etc.). But I think you would be hard pressed to hear Obama condone the way in which charter schools are set up.
Taichiliberal
Shaken, not stirred!
Cuomo is a DINO, as was his father. If you watch the commericals, you'll note that they AVOID the points I previously mentioned. You'd be hard pressed to find any of the aforementioned directly condoning what I state here.
And remember, De Blasio (democrat) ran and WON on the platform of doing EXACTLY what he proposes now regarding charter schools.
Can you refute the point I previously made?
cawacko
Well-known member
I'd argue you could ask the same question of any teachers union money spent on politics and advertising. Why not put it into the schools instead? To me if you believe in school choice it's not surprising that's where they put their money. If you think public education isn't doing its job and it's more than a money issue you aren't going to throw more good money after bad.
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The Almighty
No one stated any such thing. The point was to refute the idiocy of the claim that democrats don't support charter schools. So next time you wish to create and subsequently beat upon a straw man, do it in private. When you do it in public, you simply make yourself look as foolish as Desh.
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The Almighty
see how that works Maine... he made a claim, I pointed out the error of his claim.
maineman
Banned
so, all you have to do is find more than one democrat within our entire party and that makes his claim "in error".
got it.
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The Almighty
The point that public education doesn't get enough money? Given that we spend more per capita on education than most countries, I think that is not the problem. It is in the allocation of the resources that we do spend that is part of the problem. We spend far too much on administration and not enough on the teachers and kids (my opinion).
Simply putting more money into an inefficient system is ridiculous. Fix the system and show that it can work, THEN you might get private donations. Otherwise you are going to start seeing competition via charter schools.
Can you refute the fact that many poor parents are rallying around their charter schools trying to stop de Blasio from eliminating the choice they have made for their kids?
Do you have a source for the assertion that "we spend more per capita on education than most countries?" I assume you're talking about government spending and I haven't seen good comparative data that doesn't include private spending on education.
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The Almighty
Yes. Did you read his claim?
Apparently you didn't... AGAIN... So tell us Maine... is the following accurate? Or is it that some democrats are for charter schools and some against? It isn't hard Maine...
Democrats are against creating a two tier educational system using public property and taxes
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The Almighty
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/06/25/oecd-education-report_n_3496875.html
http://mercatus.org/publication/k-12-spending-student-oecd
No, I am talking about total spending per capita.
If your argument is that public schools get enough money already, shouldn't you only look at spending on public schools and not at total spending on education, which includes private schools?
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The Almighty
My argument is that he was wrong to state that democrats are against charter schools. My argument is that spending is not the problem. It is HOW we spend the money that is the problem. My argument is that we spend too much on the admin side and not enough on teachers/kids. If you want to break it down, go for it.
Do the math... even if you assume that ONLY government money went to public schools, then we are still on par with spending at worst with countries that outperform us on results.
maineman
Banned
As I implied, unless there is total unanimity within the democratic party, then, by definition, some will be for and some are against. Congratulations.... you found a few to make your point.
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