Should we dump Obamacare and go for Medicare-for-all instead, like Canada?

Rune said:
You are such a retard. Medicare in the US has 6% administrative costs. Private health insurers have over 30% administrative cost. Looks like you are wrong again moron, and no, I am not chasing down any more links for you. If you disagree, you prove I am wrong. Done playing your retard games. You are worse than Dixie, you look right at facts and deny them. Fuck you.
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Dear gullible twit; you again illustrate why you're a gullible fool. That figure being touted by leftist dunces like Krugman is a statistical farce. It takes what is spent and divides it by the budgeted costs of administration.

But Medicare spends far more per person than traditional insurance because its clients are OLDER and sicker which gives the APPEARANCE of cost effectiveness quoted by leftist dunces. But when looked at properly by dividing those costs per beneficiary, Medicare is vastly less efficient than private insurance carriers.

On top of its inefficiencies, there is also the issue with $60 billion in fraudulent payouts.

I'll follow up with an article explaining the real math; however, reality, truth and facts won't matter to a dunce like you.
 
The Dude said:
Bankrupting my ass!
Full national hc with price controls
The doctor cartel is bankrupting us.
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You really are too stupid for prime time. But you and Rube make a good team of twits. LMAO

The only way a dunce like you gets wealthy is by inheriting it from daddy. You're really too stupid to comprehend anything beyond your leftist memes.
 
I figured that was what the dems were shooting for. Kill off 90% of our population with obamacare, leaves us with a population of about 33 million, abracadabra! Socialized medicine works! BTW, I find it interesting that 33 million was the figure for uninsured people in America at the beginning of this clusterflop. Is it just a coincidence that 33 million Is also the current TOTAL population of Canada?
 
callinectes said:
I figured that was what the dems were shooting for. Kill off 90% of our population with obamacare, leaves us with a population of about 33 million, abracadabra! Socialized medicine works! BTW, I find it interesting that 33 million was the figure for uninsured people in America at the beginning of this clusterflop. Is it just a coincidence that 33 million Is also the current TOTAL population of Canada?
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how does more people being able to go to a Dr mean they will be killed?
 
evince said:
then tell us why your masters think the country will be better if people cant get care?
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Who has argued people should not get care you raving lunatic dunce? This is why one cannot argue with leftist dunces; they fabricate strawmen and attempt to drag everyone into the never ending circle of stupidity.
 
callinectes said:
I figured that was what the dems were shooting for. Kill off 90% of our population with obamacare, leaves us with a population of about 33 million, abracadabra! Socialized medicine works! BTW, I find it interesting that 33 million was the figure for uninsured people in America at the beginning of this clusterflop. Is it just a coincidence that 33 million Is also the current TOTAL population of Canada?
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LMAO!! Good summation; you bring a humorous new look to the argument. ^5s
 
Rune said:
You are such a retard. Medicare in the US has 6% administrative costs. Private health insurers have over 30% administrative cost. Looks like you are wrong again moron, and no, I am not chasing down any more links for you. If you disagree, you prove I am wrong. Done playing your retard games. You are worse than Dixie, you look right at facts and deny them. Fuck you.
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For the twits who fall for leftist talking points:

Myth vs. Fact: Administrative Costs in Medicare & Private Health Plans Posted on January 3, 2014 by AHIP Coverage

As Avik Roy noted in a blog post, “A more accurate measure of overhead would therefore be the administrative cost per patient, than per dollar of medical expenses. And by that measure, even with all the administrative advantages Medicare has over private coverage, the program’s administrative costs are actually significantly higher than those of private insurers.” - See more at:

http://www.ahipcoverage.com/2014/01...re-private-health-plans/#sthash.PeiHfrjP.dpuf

Medicare Administrative Costs Are Higher, Not Lower, Than for Private Insurance
By Robert A. Book, Ph.D.

.............

Administrative Costs per Person

When administrative costs are compared on a per-person basis, the picture changes. In 2005, Medicare's administrative costs were $509 per primary beneficiary, compared to private-sector administrative costs of $453. In the years from 2000 to 2005, Medicare's administrative costs per beneficiary were consistently higher than that for private insurance, ranging from 5 to 48 percent higher, depending on the year (see Table 1). This is despite the fact that private-sector "administrative" costs include state health insurance premium taxes of up to 4 percent (averaging around 2 percent, depending on the state)--an expense from which Medicare is exempt--as well as the cost of non-claim health care expenses, such as disease management and on-call nurse consultation services.

................

Even without these costs, Medicare administrative spending is still higher--suggesting that Medicare's administration is even more inefficient compared to private insurance than is suggested by its higher per-beneficiary administrative costs.

................

Getting the Math Right

Health care reform is a complex problem, of which administrative costs is only one component. However, for policymakers and ordinary Americans to understand these issues, journalists, analysts, and advocates have an obligation to avoid "playing with numbers"--either through inadvertent misunderstanding of what the numbers represent or through a deliberate choice of misleading numbers that appear to support a desired policy.

The fact is that, in recent years, Medicare administrative costs per beneficiary have substantially exceeded those costs for the private sector, this despite the fact that, as critics note, private insurance is subject to many expenses not incurred by Medicare. Contrary to the claims of public plan advocates, moving millions of Americans from private insurance to a Medicare-like program will result in program administrative costs that are higher per person and higher, not lower, for the nation as a whole.

Robert A. Book, Ph.D., is Senior Research Fellow in Health Economics in the Center for Data Analysis at The Heritage Foundation.

http://www.heritage.org/research/re...e-higher-not-lower-than-for-private-insurance

Bottom line; Government is the most inefficient method to provide services and healthcare.
 
Don Quixote said:
medicare funding is a problem because congress cannot make its mind as how to pay for it.

so i will go a bit more radical and state that medicare for all be fully paid for by the government. it has to be paid for one way or another. since the government already has a tax system in place, why not avoid adding another bureaucracy and pay for it out of tax revenue.
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You love spending other people's money don't you? You think there is this money tree waiting to be used on your every whim?

Oh yeah we can just ration care, except yours of course
 
Teflon Don said:
You love spending other people's money don't you? You think there is this money tree waiting to be used on your every whim?

Oh yeah we can just ration care, except yours of course
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All Liberals love spending other people's money; as long as it is not their own. ;)
 
Truth Detector said:
For the twits who fall for leftist talking points:

Myth vs. Fact: Administrative Costs in Medicare & Private Health Plans Posted on January 3, 2014 by AHIP Coverage

As Avik Roy noted in a blog post, “A more accurate measure of overhead would therefore be the administrative cost per patient, than per dollar of medical expenses. And by that measure, even with all the administrative advantages Medicare has over private coverage, the program’s administrative costs are actually significantly higher than those of private insurers.” - See more at:

http://www.ahipcoverage.com/2014/01...re-private-health-plans/#sthash.PeiHfrjP.dpuf

Medicare Administrative Costs Are Higher, Not Lower, Than for Private Insurance
By Robert A. Book, Ph.D.

.............

Administrative Costs per Person

When administrative costs are compared on a per-person basis, the picture changes. In 2005, Medicare's administrative costs were $509 per primary beneficiary, compared to private-sector administrative costs of $453. In the years from 2000 to 2005, Medicare's administrative costs per beneficiary were consistently higher than that for private insurance, ranging from 5 to 48 percent higher, depending on the year (see Table 1). This is despite the fact that private-sector "administrative" costs include state health insurance premium taxes of up to 4 percent (averaging around 2 percent, depending on the state)--an expense from which Medicare is exempt--as well as the cost of non-claim health care expenses, such as disease management and on-call nurse consultation services.

................

Even without these costs, Medicare administrative spending is still higher--suggesting that Medicare's administration is even more inefficient compared to private insurance than is suggested by its higher per-beneficiary administrative costs.

................

Getting the Math Right

Health care reform is a complex problem, of which administrative costs is only one component. However, for policymakers and ordinary Americans to understand these issues, journalists, analysts, and advocates have an obligation to avoid "playing with numbers"--either through inadvertent misunderstanding of what the numbers represent or through a deliberate choice of misleading numbers that appear to support a desired policy.

The fact is that, in recent years, Medicare administrative costs per beneficiary have substantially exceeded those costs for the private sector, this despite the fact that, as critics note, private insurance is subject to many expenses not incurred by Medicare. Contrary to the claims of public plan advocates, moving millions of Americans from private insurance to a Medicare-like program will result in program administrative costs that are higher per person and higher, not lower, for the nation as a whole.

Robert A. Book, Ph.D., is Senior Research Fellow in Health Economics in the Center for Data Analysis at The Heritage Foundation.

http://www.heritage.org/research/re...e-higher-not-lower-than-for-private-insurance

Bottom line; Government is the most inefficient method to provide services and healthcare.
Click to expand...

Wrong liar.

http://healthaffairs.org/blog/2011/09/20/medicare-is-more-efficient-than-private-insurance/
 
methinks that simply comparing "administrative costs" between government and private insurance ignores all the other elements of the total cost profile for insurance service delivery... "Profit" being one of them.
 
maineman said:
methinks that simply comparing "administrative costs" between government and private insurance ignores all the other elements of the total cost profile for insurance service delivery... "Profit" being one of them.
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Profit is what drives a capitalist market, not social health care in Canada. All doctors had to take a pay cut. Sure we lost many of our doctors to the USA with their play money currency, though overall? Our system is more humane. You can sleep at night knowing that if you ever got a sickness, or wanted to start a family, the gov(more like the tax payer) would have your back.
 
maineman said:
methinks that simply comparing "administrative costs" between government and private insurance ignores all the other elements of the total cost profile for insurance service delivery... "Profit" being one of them.
Click to expand...

Let's try this again:

[/b]Myth vs. Fact: Administrative Costs in Medicare & Private Health Plans Posted on January 3, 2014 by AHIP Coverage [/b]

As Avik Roy noted in a blog post, “A more accurate measure of overhead would therefore be the administrative cost per patient, than per dollar of medical expenses. And by that measure, even with all the administrative advantages Medicare has over private coverage, the program’s administrative costs are actually significantly higher than those of private insurers.” - See more at:

http://www.ahipcoverage.com/2014/01/....PeiHfrjP.dpuf

Medicare Administrative Costs Are Higher, Not Lower, Than for Private Insurance
By Robert A. Book, Ph.D.

.............

Administrative Costs per Person

When administrative costs are compared on a per-person basis, the picture changes. In 2005, Medicare's administrative costs were $509 per primary beneficiary, compared to private-sector administrative costs of $453. In the years from 2000 to 2005, Medicare's administrative costs per beneficiary were consistently higher than that for private insurance, ranging from 5 to 48 percent higher, depending on the year (see Table 1). This is despite the fact that private-sector "administrative" costs include state health insurance premium taxes of up to 4 percent (averaging around 2 percent, depending on the state)--an expense from which Medicare is exempt--as well as the cost of non-claim health care expenses, such as disease management and on-call nurse consultation services.

................

Even without these costs, Medicare administrative spending is still higher--suggesting that Medicare's administration is even more inefficient compared to private insurance than is suggested by its higher per-beneficiary administrative costs.

................

Getting the Math Right

Health care reform is a complex problem, of which administrative costs is only one component. However, for policymakers and ordinary Americans to understand these issues, journalists, analysts, and advocates have an obligation to avoid "playing with numbers"--either through inadvertent misunderstanding of what the numbers represent or through a deliberate choice of misleading numbers that appear to support a desired policy.

The fact is that, in recent years, Medicare administrative costs per beneficiary have substantially exceeded those costs for the private sector, this despite the fact that, as critics note, private insurance is subject to many expenses not incurred by Medicare. Contrary to the claims of public plan advocates, moving millions of Americans from private insurance to a Medicare-like program will result in program administrative costs that are higher per person and higher, not lower, for the nation as a whole.

Robert A. Book, Ph.D., is Senior Research Fellow in Health Economics in the Center for Data Analysis at The Heritage Foundation.

http://www.heritage.org/research/rep...vate-insurance

Bottom line; Government is the most inefficient method to provide services and healthcare.
 
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