Crimea.

They say they detest slavery, but let a black wander off of their Democrat plantation and a lynching is sure to follow.
 
Taft2016 said:
They say they detest slavery, but let a black wander off of their Democrat plantation and a lynching is sure to follow.
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They love slavery. What do you thing their war on poverty is all about? After 50 years its created more poverty.

Right's theorem of liberal economic thinking: In order for there to be rich, there must be many poor.

That explains why a majority of wealthy and well-educated tend to vote Democrat. Their policies are designed to enslave the poorly educated. That, in turn, explains why a huge majority of folks who never graduated high school and the poor vote Democrat.
 
Jarod said:
I am not a professor of Crimean history or the politics of this spot of land, however I do know a few things and have studied Russian history.

Crimea, a very strategic spot for oil distribution, has been the subject of a chess match for power for a very long time. It was a part of the former USSR most of that time as its importance rose in the early part of this century. Granted, Crimea was an important shipping center prior to the importance of oil, but not as strategic of a location as it is in modern terms.

So is what Russia has done so terrible or are we upset because we are losing access to an important strategic location?

Since the end of the USSR, Ukraine has been the subject of a great tug-a-war between Eastern and Western interests. Crimea was a location that many ethnic Russians had migrated to during the Soviet period. When Ukraine fell apart a month or so ago the area came under anarchy. (Now what caused Ukraine to fall apart, who pushed and who pulled and who set that up is a legit question) While this area was under anarchy Russia saw a land directly on its border with a majority of ethnic Russians in anarchy. They sent in troops and set up an election. The new Ukraine had intended to do the same thing, after rebel factions took extra constitutional action by throwing out their government, they were taking action to set up a vote that would have favored their interests.

So here we sit, to me there is no "moral" side, only the side that is in our best interests. What should we do, press for our advantage, which is the same thing Russia did, or relax and not get involved.

What I hate to see is this ranting about how we have a moral obligation to stop the evil Putin and evil Russia, any action we take is just as biased and self interested as the action they are taking.
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It was not done in an orderly manner. Even if a majority of Crimeans did want to join Russia, the hastiness of the move and the involvement of force casts serious doubts on the legitimacy of the move. It looks a lot like a world power just abusing it's privileges to resolve things in its favor - if any other subregion in the world had wanted to join any other another country, they wouldn't have nearly so easy a time.
 
Right said:
They love slavery. What do you thing their war on poverty is all about? After 50 years its created more poverty.

Right's theorem of liberal economic thinking: In order for there to be rich, there must be many poor.

That explains why a majority of wealthy and well-educated tend to vote Democrat. Their policies are designed to enslave the poorly educated. That, in turn, explains why a huge majority of folks who never graduated high school and the poor vote Democrat.
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Hmm, that's not true. While there is a strange pattern in the US where the wealthiest regions tend towards the Democrats, overall the wealthiest people do tend towards Republicans and the poorest Democrats. Using the 2012 presidential exit polls as an example:

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As for education, there is a pattern where the more educated tend to be more Republican, until they get to the postgraduate level:

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Honestly, I'm just disappointed. I like Russia, and the Russian people. This is going to be a stumbling block between Russia and the west* for generations.

*Or western-west; IMO, Russia is clearly part of "the west" as it is
 
Taft2016 said:
They say they detest slavery, but let a black wander off of their Democrat plantation and a lynching is sure to follow.
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This may be surprising to you, but welfare is in fact not dependent on race. There are black people who do not receive welfare, and white people who do.
 
Right said:
You ignore the fact that there was a war. What else would you call Russia's troops raiding the Ukrainian naval headquarters? Any reasonable person and student of history would understand that "peace through strength" is always the best way to avoid an invasion by foreign occupiers.
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Ukraine has no strength. They basically had a choice between a last stand and withdrawal, they chose withdrawal. Doesn't make a good movie, but I can understand it. The west doesn't care enough about Ukraine to take any unilateral action, and Russia's position as a permanent security council member more or less renders them immune to international law.

Remember, though, that it was America that demanded the special right to veto wars in both the League of Nations (where it was turned down, and so didn't join) and the UN. Of course, other powers were not going to just put up with that, they demanded veto right as well, and got it. And that has, ever since, rendered the organization toothless, only really able to act in situations not involving a power or the friend of power.
 
Right said:
MM want's an answer, and the way I see it his question is 'what would you do about it now?' This ignores the real problem, that The Obama showed the world how weak he is. One of the problems that this created was that Russia took Ukraine. At this point, there is nothing can be done about Ukraine, since the train has left the station. What needs to be done is to get rid of The Obama so more shit like this doesn't happen.
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It's annoying hearing this crap from the right. You don't support war anymore than Obama does, how the hell do you think that you would've come out of this looking any less weak? There are two options that would've made strategic sense, to declare war, or to accept it on the grounds of national right to self-determination and otherwise not let yourself appear to be bothered by it. The louder you squawk without doing anything, the dumber and weaker you look. Obama has squawked a bit, sure, and looked pretty dumb in the process, but the right's idea of "strength" appears to be nothing more than to squawk extra loud.
 
evince said:
If you righties had souls you would be laughing your asses off at Putin who is about to see the economic growth in his country fade.

International input is why they have done so well
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Economic growth in Russia since the fall of the Soviet Union has largely been dependent on the growth of the energy sector. In built economic growth, not dependent on simple digging up resources and selling them, collapsed after the fall of the Soviet Union, and has never really recovered. No, after 25 years, they're back to maybe where they were before, and it's all been due to becoming the middle east of europe. The only sanctions that would do Putin any real harm would be oil and gas sanctions, and they'd do much more harm to the people who issued them.

Historically, it's been the case that fossil fuel rich nations have stopped the flow of trade to push their international agenda, not the other way around. Think of it this way, the primary sector (which Russia's economy largely consists of) are sort of the plants of the economic food chain, directly creating the raw resources that allow the rest of what goes on in the economy to happen. The secondary sector is manufacturing, they take those raw resources and add value to them by turning them into useful product. We and europe are even further up the chain, we deal in the tertiary sector, where we take those products and add value to them with services (i.e. taking fries grown and manufactured elsewhere and cooking them for the customer) - this sort of makes us the carnivores, very far removed from the original source of energy. We're usually in the dominant position, true, but trying to negotiate with someone further down the chain through trade stoppage is fairly hopeless, it's like a cow refusing to eat grass.
 
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