4th Amendments thoughts...

leaningright said:
I routinely get inspected for safety reasons every year. I have two bass boats and when I use them at a public ramp I can expect to be inspected. Sometimes they'll put a safety sticker on the boat (that covers me for a summer) and sometimes they don't. I don't care. I can also tell that the patrol is looking for alcohol as well. I have no problem with the checks as I don't want to be on the water with a bunch of unsafe boaters or boaters who are intoxicated and thus unsafe. I think the guy who checked Jarod out was doing a good job from what Jarod describes.
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He was a very professional guy and I he did his job well, he followed the law as outlined by the Supreme Court. It was not the Deputy I had the problem with. Its the Supreme Court analysis of the law.
 
callinectes said:
The 4th amendment-The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
1. Did he seize anything?
2. I'm assuming he did not conduct an active search through the boat because you stated he "requested" to see various safety items and documents.
His reasonable suspicion was the erratic maneuver you described. The same thing might have happened if you dropped a lit cigarette in your lap while driving your car and you swerved out of your lane while trying to find it before it set your balls on fire(don't ask me how I know that). I'm surprised that you don't know this. It's boilerplate. And be glad the Coast Guard didn't pull you over. They like to disassemble your boat looking for stuff, and it's all FEDERAL(those guys have more power than a U.S. Marshal!), so the court cases are federal cases. This means that if you have 4 people onboard and only have life jackets for 2 of them, that's potentially a $2000 fine!($1K per life jacket). Boating is a VERY highly regulated activity.
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The argument can be made that the officer had RS, my point is that based on the law he did not need it, and to me, that's wrong.
 
Truth Detector said:
I'm curious how one would NOT randomly pick boats out for safety inspections; search every boat in the harbor??? What do you think Jarod??

At airports they randomly select individuals for additional search; is that unconstitutional Jarod?

If they had "randomly" selected a boat piloted by a black man, would it be racist too?

:rolleyes:
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What makes you assume I am not black?

If they inspected every 12th boat they passed, that would not be random, would it?
 
Jarod said:
So this weekend I was out on a boat I share with my sister. I had my three kids and wife with me, but I was being Capitan.

As we were heading out the inlet, I was teaching my son to drive. The boat was sluggish because it was full of fuel and sitting very heavy in the water. My son lurched the boat toward a dock and I grabbed the wheel and corrected the direction. A Sherriff boat was heading toward us while this maneuver occurred. At no time was anyone in any danger and we did not come close to the dock in question.

The Sheriff boat came close to me and told me to kill the engine, he was boarding. I obeyed and he died his vessel up to mine and preceded to ask a series of questions, requesting to see the registration, hear the horn, see the life vests, and fire extinguisher. We had all the required safety equipment. He then took the time to call in the registration. In all the stop took 15 min's.

What are your thoughts, was this stop a violation of the 4th Amendment? Was his inspection of by boat an unreasonable search? The Florida Supreme Court says no. While, on a purely selfish personal level, I am glad the local police are doing this, because there is a lot of unsafe boating in my area, I believe stopping boats without Reasonable suspicion of a criminal violation is a violation of my Constitutional rights.

What are your thoughts?
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No, his stopping your boat was justified. He also had a right to make sure you were not drinking and driving. The sudden lurch towards a dock potentially endangers others. He had the duty to make sure you were not a danger. Sometimes events such as you described make the situation appear to be something that it is not. In this case I believe the officer did the correct thing.
 
Jarod said:
So do you believe police should legally allowed to randomly pull vehicles over on the highway to inspect them?
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"My son lurched the boat toward a dock and I grabbed the wheel and corrected the direction."

He did not randomly pull you over. There was probable cause to believe there was a problem and potential danger to others.
 
Jarod said:
I know more than I want to about such stops, so you can pretend to be mr know it all, all you chose, I don't really care.

1. This was random, I did stay in the area and watch this guy for a very long time.
2. There is no requirement that they conduct such operations in a random way on the water for searching boats, again, I know this area of the law more than I want to also.
3. My point was just that, ASSUMING what I am telling you is true, (it is, but that's besides the point) what are your thoughts?
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"My son lurched the boat toward a dock and I grabbed the wheel and corrected the direction."

Again... Not random... how the hell did you pass the bar?
 
Jarod said:
Impaired operation? The fact that we headed toward a dock for a few seconds, then corrected. To you, is that enough to make a stop and search "reasonable"?
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Funny how your words change... there is a difference between 'headed toward a dock for a few seconds' and "My son lurched the boat toward a dock and I grabbed the wheel and corrected the direction."
 
Jarod said:
He stopped me and searched my vessel without reasonable suspicion that I was committing a crime. I was literally legally compelled to comply with his request to submit my boat to a government inspection.
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Sounds to me like he could have thought you were boating while drunk!
 
Taft2016 said:
The sentiments you express are realer than you think. In case you missed it, this was a very telling exchange from the recent NYC mayoral election that went somewhat viral. They've become very upfront and candid about their double standards and hypocrisies.

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I had to watch this three times. I know Richerals are willfully naive, but this just can't be real. This had to be a conservative spoofing the left wingers.
 
You are all idiots.

You might be correct that the officer might have had RS to stop and search me, but the point is that according to the law, as it currently stands he does not need RS to do what he did. I disagree, a single lurch for a couple seconds that was immediately corrected is not RS of criminal suspicion, but it does not matter in the above situation, according to the law.

Are you cool with that interpretation of the law?
 
Taft2016 said:
The sentiments you express are realer than you think. In case you missed it, this was a very telling exchange from the recent NYC mayoral election that went somewhat viral. They've become very upfront and candid about their double standards and hypocrisies.

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Realer? Really? My guess; English as a second language. Jeebus, even celtic guy can do better.
 
Jarod said:
You are all idiots.

You might be correct that the officer might have had RS to stop and search me, but the point is that according to the law, as it currently stands he does not need RS to do what he did. I disagree, a single lurch for a couple seconds that was immediately corrected is not RS of criminal suspicion, but it does not matter in the above situation, according to the law.

Are you cool with that interpretation of the law?
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You are the idiot. The Revenue Cutter Service was created by the same congress that wrote the bill of rights in the same year. They are not covered by the forth. If you demand perfect privacy, stay off the water. We don't need idiots like you out there anyway.
 
Teflon Don said:
I had to watch this three times. I know Richerals are willfully naive, but this just can't be real. This had to be a conservative spoofing the left wingers.
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Normally, I'd said you have a good point. But this is the upper westside of Manhattan we're speaking of.

It was here, in 1972, Bill Buckley overheard an upper westsider make the remark Buckley made famous: "I can't believe McGovern lost. Everyone I know voted for him."
 
Jarod said:
You are all idiots.

You might be correct that the officer might have had RS to stop and search me, but the point is that according to the law, as it currently stands he does not need RS to do what he did. I disagree, a single lurch for a couple seconds that was immediately corrected is not RS of criminal suspicion, but it does not matter in the above situation, according to the law.

Are you cool with that interpretation of the law?
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Poor Garud... you pretty much have everyone, from right to left to center... ALL telling you that you are wrong.

A single lurch (especially one that is towards a dock) is absolutely unequivocally justification for them pulling you over.
 
Jarod said:
You are all idiots.

You might be correct that the officer might have had RS to stop and search me, but the point is that according to the law, as it currently stands he does not need RS to do what he did. I disagree, a single lurch for a couple seconds that was immediately corrected is not RS of criminal suspicion, but it does not matter in the above situation, according to the law.

Are you cool with that interpretation of the law?
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If that police office stopping you on your yacht saves one life then it will have all been worth it won't it? Why do you think you are above the law? You 1%ers are a piece of work.

How many people on food stamps could be fed by you selling your yacht and paying higher taxes? Have you no shame?
 
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