Per CNBC Detroit files for Chapter 9 bankruptcy protection

Steelplate said:
How.many have been.outsourced....how about. Comparison between the ones that are still made there and the ones that aren't?

Remember....you said "in no way".
Click to expand...

Give it up...getting Billy to have an honest discussion about the hellhole he lives in just isn't going to happen.

He's not about to let you win the argument by admitting you were right about what happened to all the jobs where he lives.
 
yeah but anyone who thinks about believing him will at least get the facts right next to his blather
 
The latest news about the population decline in Detroit has unsurprisingly generated a lot of commentary as to its causes. Particularly on the right, the generalized and oft-repeated view in myriad columns has coalesced around Detroit being “the most striking example of a once-thriving city ruined by years of liberal social policies.” Union power has also been mentioned quite a bit too, and while both explanations are compelling, basic thinking renders these notions overly simplistic.


how about the first paragraph in the piece dude?




http://www.forbes.com/sites/johntam...-not-liberal-politics-is-what-killed-detroit/
 
evince said:
The latest news about the population decline in Detroit has unsurprisingly generated a lot of commentary as to its causes. Particularly on the right, the generalized and oft-repeated view in myriad columns has coalesced around Detroit being “the most striking example of a once-thriving city ruined by years of liberal social policies.” Union power has also been mentioned quite a bit too, and while both explanations are compelling, basic thinking renders these notions overly simplistic.


how about the first paragraph in the piece dude?
Click to expand...

Really? That has to do with outsourcing? Where? Highlight it.

Does anyone else see it mentioning outsourcing in that paragraph?
 
Kel-Tec PMR-30 said:
Have you been to Detroit since?
Click to expand...


billy Detroit refused for DECADES to compete with the emerging auto industry else where.

then they got caught with their pants down and began shipping the jobs overseas.

we lived it dude.

Your being had by whomever is feeding this clap trap
 
What REALLY killed (and is still killing Detroit) is the city council and government services demanding such high saleries and pensions, ridiculous tax rates (and then not even collecting taxes 50% of the time), and the sheer size of the city itself. It's too big to manage.
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_industry_in_the_United_States#1970s_and_1980s



1970s and 1980s[edit]

By 1969, imports had increased their share of the U.S. auto market, with Volkswagen selling 548,904 vehicles, followed by Toyota with 127,018 vehicles. In response to this, the domestic auto makers introduced new compact and sub-compact cars, such as the Ford Pinto and Maverick, the Chevrolet Vega, and the AMC Gremlin, Hornet and Pacer. (Chrysler had to make do with importing cars from Mitsubishi Motors and their affiliated Rootes Group.) However, design and manufacturing problems infected a number of these cars and led to unfavorable perceptions of the cars.

The auto industry was severely affected by the 1973 oil crisis Arab embargo. Small fuel-efficient cars from foreign automakers took a sharply higher share of the U.S. auto sales market. Under the Energy Policy and Conservation Act[12] the federal government initiated fuel efficiency standards (known as Corporate Average Fuel Economy, or CAFE) in 1975, effective as of 1978 for passenger cars, and as of 1979 for light trucks. For passenger cars, the initial standard was 18 miles per gallon (mpg), and increased to 27.5 mpg by 1985.

General Motors began responding first to the high gas prices, by downsizing most of their models by 1977. In 1979, the second oil price spike occurred, precipitated by political events in Iran, resulting in the 1979 energy crisis. By 1980, the economy slid into turmoil, with high inflation, high unemployment, and high interest rates. The automakers suffered large operating losses. Chrysler was hurt most severely and in 1979 received a bailout from the federal government in the form of $1.5 billion in loan guarantees, one quick fix was a Detroit-built version of their then-new French (Simca) economy car, the Horizon.[13] As a result of its financial difficulties, Chrysler sold its British and French subsidiaries, Rootes Group and Simca.

As bold and confident as the Big Three automakers were in the 1950s and 1960s, the American auto makers in the 1970s and 1980s stumbled badly, going from one engineering, manufacturing or marketing disaster to another. Ford reaped a public relations nightmare when it was revealed that the Ford Pinto's gas tank was vulnerable to exploding when hit from behind. Ford knew about this vulnerability but did not design any safeguards in order to save a few dollars per vehicle. They rationalized that the cost of lawsuits would be less than the cost of redesigning the car.[14] GM had a string of miscues starting with the Chevrolet Vega, which developed a reputation for rapidly rusting and having major problems with the aluminum engine.[15] Cadillac damaged their reputation when the four-cylinder Cadillac Cimarron was introduced in 1981 (a gussied-up Chevrolet Cavalier at twice the price) and the "V8-6-4" engine didn't work as advertised.[16] GM's reputation was also damaged when it revealed in 1977 that they were installing Chevrolet engines in Oldsmobiles, and lawsuits from aggrieved Oldsmobile owners followed.[17] Likewise litigation ensued when a trio of diesel engines, designed from gasoline engines and used in GM cars from 1978 to 1985 suffered major problems. Class action lawsuits and efforts from the Federal Trade Commission resulted in buybacks of the cars from GM.[18] Chrysler also suffered damage to its reputation when its compact cars, the Plymouth Volaré and Dodge Aspen, were developed quickly and suffered from massive recalls and poor quality.[19]

In 1981, Japanese automakers entered into a so-called "Voluntary restraint agreement" limiting the number of autos that they could import to the U.S. to 1.68 million per year.[20] One side effect of this quota was that the Japanese car companies began developing luxury cars that had higher profit margins, such as Toyota's Lexus, Honda's Acura,and Nissan Motor Company's Infiniti divisions. Another consequence was that the Japanese car makers began opening auto production plants in the U.S., with the three largest Japanese auto manufacturers all opening production facilities by 1985. These facilities were opened primarily in the southern U.S., in states that were not union friendly. Although the U.A.W. made substantial union -organizing efforts at these plants, they remained non-union. The Big Three also began investing in and/or developing joint manufacturing facilities with several of the Japanese automakers. Ford invested in Mazda as well as setting up a joint facility with them called AutoAlliance International. Chrysler bought stock in Mitsubishi Motors and established a joint facility with them called Diamond-Star Motors. GM invested in Suzuki and Isuzu Motors, and set up a joint manufacturing facility with Toyota under the name of Nummi.

Despite the financial and marketing upheavals during the 1970s and 1980s, the decades led to technological innovations and/or widespread use of such improvements as disc brakes, fuel injection, electronic engine control units, and electronic ignition. Front-wheel drive became the standard drive system by the late 1980s.

By the mid-1980s, oil prices had fallen sharply, helping lead to the revitalization of the American auto industry. Under the leadership of Lee Iacocca, Chrysler Corporation mounted a comeback after its flirtation with bankruptcy in 1979. The Minivan was introduced in 1984 by Chrysler with the Plymouth Voyager and Dodge Caravan, and proved very popular. These vehicles were built on a passenger-car chassis and seated up to seven people as well as being able to hold bulky loads. Chrysler also introduced their "K-cars" in the 1980s, which came with front-wheel drive and fuel-efficient OHC engines. In 1987, Chrysler bought American Motors, which produced the Jeep. This proved to be excellent timing to take advantage of the Sport utility vehicle boom. Ford also began a comeback after losses of $3.3 billion in the early 1980s. The company introduced the very successful aerodynamic Taurus in 1985. General Motors, under the leadership of Roger Smith, was not as successful as its competitors in turning itself around and its market share fell significantly. While Ford and Chrysler were cutting production costs, GM was investing heavily in new technology. The company's attempts at overhauling its management structure and using increased technology for manufacturing production were not successful. Several large acquisitions (Electronic Data Systems and Hughes Aircraft Company) also diverted management attention away from their main industry. (Ford and Chrysler also joined in the acquisition and diversification trend, with Ford buying Jaguar Cars, Aston Martin, The Associates (a finance company), and First Nationwide Financial Corp. (a savings and loan). Chrysler purchased Lamborghini, an interest in Maserati, and Gulfstream Aerospace jets.) GM started the Saturn Corporation brand in the late 1980s as a way to gain sales from imported cars. While initially receiving a positive reception, GM later neglected to provide it much support. Around this time GM also began development on the General Motors EV1 electric car, which debuted in 1996.
 
Last edited:
evince said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automotive_industry_in_the_United_States#1970s_and_1980s



1970s and 1980s[edit]

By 1969, imports had increased their share of the U.S. auto market, with Volkswagen selling 548,904 vehicles, followed by Toyota with 127,018 vehicles. In response to this, the domestic auto makers introduced new compact and sub-compact cars, such as the Ford Pinto and Maverick, the Chevrolet Vega, and the AMC Gremlin, Hornet and Pacer. (Chrysler had to make do with importing cars from Mitsubishi Motors and their affiliated Rootes Group.) However, design and manufacturing problems infected a number of these cars and led to unfavorable perceptions of the cars.

The auto industry was severely affected by the 1973 oil crisis Arab embargo. Small fuel-efficient cars from foreign automakers took a sharply higher share of the U.S. auto sales market. Under the Energy Policy and Conservation Act[12] the federal government initiated fuel efficiency standards (known as Corporate Average Fuel Economy, or CAFE) in 1975, effective as of 1978 for passenger cars, and as of 1979 for light trucks. For passenger cars, the initial standard was 18 miles per gallon (mpg), and increased to 27.5 mpg by 1985.

General Motors began responding first to the high gas prices, by downsizing most of their models by 1977. In 1979, the second oil price spike occurred, precipitated by political events in Iran, resulting in the 1979 energy crisis. By 1980, the economy slid into turmoil, with high inflation, high unemployment, and high interest rates. The automakers suffered large operating losses. Chrysler was hurt most severely and in 1979 received a bailout from the federal government in the form of $1.5 billion in loan guarantees, one quick fix was a Detroit-built version of their then-new French (Simca) economy car, the Horizon.[13] As a result of its financial difficulties, Chrysler sold its British and French subsidiaries, Rootes Group and Simca.

As bold and confident as the Big Three automakers were in the 1950s and 1960s, the American auto makers in the 1970s and 1980s stumbled badly, going from one engineering, manufacturing or marketing disaster to another. Ford reaped a public relations nightmare when it was revealed that the Ford Pinto's gas tank was vulnerable to exploding when hit from behind. Ford knew about this vulnerability but did not design any safeguards in order to save a few dollars per vehicle. They rationalized that the cost of lawsuits would be less than the cost of redesigning the car.[14] GM had a string of miscues starting with the Chevrolet Vega, which developed a reputation for rapidly rusting and having major problems with the aluminum engine.[15] Cadillac damaged their reputation when the four-cylinder Cadillac Cimarron was introduced in 1981 (a gussied-up Chevrolet Cavalier at twice the price) and the "V8-6-4" engine didn't work as advertised.[16] GM's reputation was also damaged when it revealed in 1977 that they were installing Chevrolet engines in Oldsmobiles, and lawsuits from aggrieved Oldsmobile owners followed.[17] Likewise litigation ensued when a trio of diesel engines, designed from gasoline engines and used in GM cars from 1978 to 1985 suffered major problems. Class action lawsuits and efforts from the Federal Trade Commission resulted in buybacks of the cars from GM.[18] Chrysler also suffered damage to its reputation when its compact cars, the Plymouth Volaré and Dodge Aspen, were developed quickly and suffered from massive recalls and poor quality.[19]

In 1981, Japanese automakers entered into a so-called "Voluntary restraint agreement" limiting the number of autos that they could import to the U.S. to 1.68 million per year.[20] One side effect of this quota was that the Japanese car companies began developing luxury cars that had higher profit margins, such as Toyota's Lexus, Honda's Acura,and Nissan Motor Company's Infiniti divisions. Another consequence was that the Japanese car makers began opening auto production plants in the U.S., with the three largest Japanese auto manufacturers all opening production facilities by 1985. These facilities were opened primarily in the southern U.S., in states that were not union friendly. Although the U.A.W. made substantial union -organizing efforts at these plants, they remained non-union. The Big Three also began investing in and/or developing joint manufacturing facilities with several of the Japanese automakers. Ford invested in Mazda as well as setting up a joint facility with them called AutoAlliance International. Chrysler bought stock in Mitsubishi Motors and established a joint facility with them called Diamond-Star Motors. GM invested in Suzuki and Isuzu Motors, and set up a joint manufacturing facility with Toyota under the name of Nummi.

Despite the financial and marketing upheavals during the 1970s and 1980s, the decades led to technological innovations and/or widespread use of such improvements as disc brakes, fuel injection, electronic engine control units, and electronic ignition. Front-wheel drive became the standard drive system by the late 1980s.

By the mid-1980s, oil prices had fallen sharply, helping lead to the revitalization of the American auto industry. Under the leadership of Lee Iacocca, Chrysler Corporation mounted a comeback after its flirtation with bankruptcy in 1979. The Minivan was introduced in 1984 by Chrysler with the Plymouth Voyager and Dodge Caravan, and proved very popular. These vehicles were built on a passenger-car chassis and seated up to seven people as well as being able to hold bulky loads. Chrysler also introduced their "K-cars" in the 1980s, which came with front-wheel drive and fuel-efficient OHC engines. In 1987, Chrysler bought American Motors, which produced the Jeep. This proved to be excellent timing to take advantage of the Sport utility vehicle boom. Ford also began a comeback after losses of $3.3 billion in the early 1980s. The company introduced the very successful aerodynamic Taurus in 1985. General Motors, under the leadership of Roger Smith, was not as successful as its competitors in turning itself around and its market share fell significantly. While Ford and Chrysler were cutting production costs, GM was investing heavily in new technology. The company's attempts at overhauling its management structure and using increased technology for manufacturing production were not successful. Several large acquisitions (Electronic Data Systems and Hughes Aircraft Company) also diverted management attention away from their main industry. (Ford and Chrysler also joined in the acquisition and diversification trend, with Ford buying Jaguar Cars, Aston Martin, The Associates (a finance company), and First Nationwide Financial Corp. (a savings and loan). Chrysler purchased Lamborghini, an interest in Maserati, and Gulfstream Aerospace jets.) GM started the Saturn Corporation brand in the late 1980s as a way to gain sales from imported cars. While initially receiving a positive reception, GM later neglected to provide it much support. Around this time GM also began development on the General Motors EV1 electric car, which debuted in 1996.
Click to expand...

No mention of outsourcing here either....

Still waiting. If you can't do it, just say so.
 
Kel-Tec PMR-30 said:
Yes, in no way. 'Outsourcing' has had no impact on the economy of Detroit's manufacturing.
Click to expand...

Lets see....

Pension system that drains the city

Taxes that stifle the growth of business

Uncontrolled Borrowing of funds

Crime off the charts

Business fleeing to more affordable cities.

White Flight

Rampant abuses of power by the city council and Mayors office.
 
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